2017-18 Champions Cup

Cookiemunster

Exeter Chiefs

Eod100 wrote: »

You've hedged your bets there.. D.R for Racing, Beirne for Scarlets?

I reckon he meant DR or, you know, 15 actual Munsters players.

molloyjh

Exeter Chiefs

PTH2009 wrote: »

Predicting there will be at least one Munster man in the final

I'm going to go one further and say there will be at least 1 Leinster man and at least 1 Munster man in the final.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm going to go one further and say there will be at least 1 Leinster man and at least 1 Munster man in the final.

I'm going to go one even further and say there will be Irish player(s) on every team in the final.

sydthebeat

Castres

Eod100 wrote: »

You've hedged your bets there.. D.R for Racing, Beirne for Scarlets?

Beirne is a Kildare man

Eod100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I reckon he meant DR or, you know, 15 actual Munsters players.

Well yeah Im hoping Munster do the job!

aloooof

Northampton Saints

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's an odd one. Saracens are still a good team with a good squad. It's quite unusual that they've come apart in Europe so badly this year.

I thought they actually did quite well against Leinster and on their day could have taken a scalp against most of the last 8 teams, they just left themselves too much work to do by their performance in the pool stages.

Didn't they contributed the highest number of players to the Lions from any one club? 6 (I think) so I suspect that's probably a factor.

aloooof

Castres

aloooof wrote: »

Didn't they contributed the highest number of players to the Lions from any one club? 6 (I think) so I suspect that's probably a factor.

Probably a factor, but Leinster was up there with 5 and it hasn't had nearly the same impact. Of course the Leinster players have had their time managed much better but I think whatever is impacting Saracens for most of the season is a bit more collective over the squad. They've had plenty of injury woes too.

errlloyd

Exeter Chiefs

I have become convinced that Billy Vunipola is the most important rugby player in the Northern Hemisphere. England and Sarries both go to **** without him apparently.

Shefwedfan

errlloyd wrote: »

I have become convinced that Billy Vunipola is the most important rugby player in the Northern Hemisphere. England and Sarries both go to **** without him apparently.

ITs not a single player...

Once the bish bash bosh game doesn't work they have no alternative

Similar to the mighty Exeter Cheifs...nobody could stop them once they got within 10M of the line with pick & go

Leinster did in first match and they lost it....

Like everything, Saracens & England had a game plan....it took teams 2 years to work it out but they have, that is not to say they will still beat 90% of the teams because they have very good players....but against the top sides they have worked them out

prawnsambo

Gloucester beat Newcastle 33-12.

Bridge93

Castres

Enjoyable game on Sky Action. Blues beating Pau 10-7

Eod100

Is that first time a Welsh region has reached a European final?

Eod100

Eod100 wrote: »

Is that first time a Welsh region has reached a European final?

Scratch that. They were in Heineken final in 1996 and won Challenge Cup in 2010.

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Bridge93 wrote: »

Enjoyable game on Sky Action. Blues beating Pau 10-7

Thought it was pretty poor quality, especially the second half. Loads of knock ons, lost lineouts, bad passing and mauls that went nowhere.

Gloucester will really fancy winning this

c.p.w.g.w

What channel is the final on...can't find it anywhere online:mad::mad::mad::mad:

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

What channel is the final on...can't find it anywhere online:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Think it’s on both Sky Sports and BT.
Sky advertised they’d be showing it anyway.

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

Currently in:

Pro14 (6): Munster, Glasgow, Cardiff, Leinster, Scarlets, Edinburgh
Aviva (6): Exeter, Saracens, Wasps, Newcastle, Leicester, Gloucester
Top14 (6): Montpellier, Racing 92, Toulon, Lyon, Toulouse, Castres

Pro14 playoff: Ulster vs Ospreys

A healthy number of new teams! Those in bold were not in this year's Champions Cup. Pau are currently in 7th in the Top14 and could still sneak in. Sale are 7th in the Aviva and could still replace Leicester.

Am I right in thinking a Cardiff win would mean no play-off would be required for Pro14 spot as 2 teams would get in?

Former Former

http://epcrugby.com/news/37582.php

Conway vs Toulon and James Ryan vs Scarlets nominated for try of the knockouts.

Think the Racing try vs Clermont is the best though

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

Conway vs Toulon edges it for me given the time in the match. Munster's chances were close to looking buried by then.

irishbucsfan

Is "try of the knockouts" really a thing?

errlloyd

Exeter Chiefs

Eod100 wrote: »

Am I right in thinking a Cardiff win would mean no play-off would be required for Pro14 spot as 2 teams would get in?

This is actually an unknown and there is an important reason why. As things stand the play off would be between Ospreys and Ulster. But the 8th ranked eligible pro14 team is actually Benneton, who are in 5th (like ospreys) and on more points than ospreys. For what it's worth they also come from Leinsters conference.

So I've no idea what would happen in this situation, but if Ospreys qualified ahead of Benneton I'd be disappointed.


Edit, also for the record. It doesn't need a Cardiff win. In fact any semi finalist from the challenge cup can claim a qualifying spot, if the ones ranked ahead of them aren't already qualified. Cardiff, Newcastle and Gloucester are probably going to qualify, but it needs Pau to take back 6th in the top14.

prawnsambo

thomond2006 wrote: »

Conway vs Toulon edges it for me given the time in the match. Munster's chances were close to looking buried by then.

Yeah, that's the one I voted for. Terrific individual effort that required both vision and skill.

Castres

Conway's try for me. Keeping the ball in play alone was a piece of work, and then to produce a try like that which won the game is sensational.

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Interesting to see that both Scarlets and Racing had 0 votes in the poll and Montpellier had 13

Buer

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Interesting to see that both Scarlets and Racing had 0 votes in the poll and Montpellier had 13

I think that's fair enough, to be honest. A huge amount depends on the pool a team gets. Exeter and Montpellier would have reached the knock out stages with a different draw.

Exeter in particular were the one side who genuinely came close to beating Leinster and pushed them all the way in Dublin. Montpellier were also within a single score in the RDS.

Scarlets had the benefit of an Italian team which gave them 10 points in the pool stage. Racing spluttered there way into the knock out stages at which point they came alive.

ScrubsfanChris

Castres

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Interesting to see that both Scarlets and Racing had 0 votes in the poll and Montpellier had 13

I voted for Montpellier. I thought having Pienaar and Cruden and the arrival of stern Vern would have them in rude health.

They are obviously going great in the top14 but they didn't quite get going in the pools.

ProudIRISHman

Cant see anyone but Racing lifting that trophy after their performance yesterday. Obviously a few things went their way but they were powerful and looked dangerous throughout. If only Munster had gotten the Scarlets draw but unfortunately not to be.

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Buer wrote: »

I think that's fair enough, to be honest. A huge amount depends on the pool a team gets. Exeter and Montpellier would have reached the knock out stages with a different draw.

Exeter in particular were the one side who genuinely came close to beating Leinster and pushed them all the way in Dublin. Montpellier were also within a single score in the RDS.

Scarlets had the benefit of an Italian team which gave them 10 points in the pool stage. Racing spluttered there way into the knock out stages at which point they came alive.

Oh no doubt
Its just interesting to see how some of the supposedly in form teams didn't show up for the champions cup.

turnikett1

Exeter Chiefs

ProudIRISHman wrote: »

Cant see anyone but Racing lifting that trophy after their performance yesterday. Obviously a few things went their way but they were powerful and looked dangerous throughout. If only Munster had gotten the Scarlets draw but unfortunately not to be.

>Joined today
>sees other ridiculous posts in Munster thread

Go away, troll.

sydthebeat

Castres

ProudIRISHman wrote: »

Cant see anyone but Racing lifting that trophy after their performance yesterday. Obviously a few things went their way but they were powerful and looked dangerous throughout. If only Munster had gotten the Scarlets draw but unfortunately not to be.

You'll get racing at 12/5

Lump away there

Rigor Mortis

Castres

ProudIRISHman wrote: »

Cant see anyone but Racing lifting that trophy after their performance yesterday. Obviously a few things went their way but they were powerful and looked dangerous throughout. If only Munster had gotten the Scarlets draw but unfortunately not to be.

Yes, it is very clear and obvious that since the start of this competition that Leinster have had the easier draw and that Munster were dogged with bad luck.

sydthebeat

Castres

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Yes, it is very clear and obvious that since the start of this competition that Leinster have had the easier draw and that Munster were dogged with bad luck.

get out of here with your facts and realism... this is a place for hyperbole, myth and fanaticism !!!!!!!!

Burkie1203

Exeter Chiefs

ProudIRISHman wrote: »

Cant see anyone but Racing lifting that trophy after their performance yesterday. Obviously a few things went their way but they were powerful and looked dangerous throughout. If only Munster had gotten the Scarlets draw but unfortunately not to be.

Munster beaten Toulon by 1 point
Scarlets beat toulon by 3 points
Leinster hammered Scarlets

Yeah Leinster got the handy draw. The team leinster hammered beat the team munster scrapped by in the QFs by a bigger margin a few months earlier

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

Ah here.

Tigerandahalf

So down to the final 2.

For me Leinster have been by far the best side in the competition and they should take Racing easily enough once all of Leinster's main performers are present.

Racing were lucky to get such a handy start. They have a good scrum and lineout and in Machenaud they have a very reliable goalkicker. But they lack a bit of a clinical edge and are vulnerable to turning over the ball too easily, like Nakarawa in the 2nd row - he can throw a fabulous offload but then gifts up possession in the next play.

I don't think Munster have improved much from last year. They are still far too 1 dimensional and so slow to move the ball from the ruck area. You just can't play at that slow ponderous pace against quality teams (unless you have real bulk). So much of their moves are just one out runners supported by another player. It works well in the conditions of winter but come the hard grounds you will come up short.

The positives are Conway who has had a great year and has really improved as a player. His kicking out of hand still needs work if he was to move to 15 but it looks like Haley from Sale will fill that 15 shirt next year anyway. Zebo will be a loss though.

Their backrow was well beaten and POM is beginning to look pretty limited and only capable of producing 1 or 2 big games out of 5. If there is little lineout activity the game passes him by. Cloete is not top standard either while Holland is much the same, too slow to get around the park when the game gets loose.

Beirne will be a good addition in the 2nd row but will Munster's current gameplan be able to get the best out of him. You don't want to see him stuck in one out carries and mauls all the time. His hands and running are too good for that.

There are still injuries/doubts about J Cronin, JJ and Bleyendahl. I wonder should Scannell be tried at 10? Especially when there is Taute, Farrell and Arnold in the centre.

Dubinusa

I think Munster should cut Bleyandaal loose. He's too much effort for so limited return. He's at best slightly better than Keatley.
Letting Donncha Ryan leave was a mistake.
They'll be better with Farrell and Taute healthy.
Wooten is not up to standard yet. Zebo will be missed but they will be ok. They have a very good squad. They are not too far away imo.

Dubinusa

Exeter Chiefs

Dubinusa wrote: »

Letting Donncha Ryan leave was a mistake.

Donnacha Ryan wanted to leave. This has been done to death. He wasn't let leave, he decided to leave.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think Munster should cut Bleyandaal loose. He's too much effort for so limited return. He's at best slightly better than Keatley.
Letting Donncha Ryan leave was a mistake.
They'll be better with Farrell and Taute healthy.
Wooten is not up to standard yet. Zebo will be missed but they will be ok. They have a very good squad. They are not too far away imo.

Bleyendaal is more than slightly better than Keatley.
Donnacha wanted to leave. He wanted to experience playing abroad.

Burkie1203

Exeter Chiefs

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Bleyendaal is more than slightly better than Keatley.
Donnacha wanted to leave. He wanted to experience playing abroad.

Bleyendaal choked in the Euro SF and pro12 final last year.

turnikett1

Exeter Chiefs

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Bleyendaal is more than slightly better than Keatley.
Donnacha wanted to leave. He wanted to experience playing abroad.

Bleyendaal choked in the Euro SF and pro12 final last year.

Sexton choked against Clermont and Scarlets last year. What's your point? Bleyendaal has a higher ceiling than Keatley as does JJ. What's your solution? Scrap Bleyendaal altogether because of a few bad games? He needs to be given another season, minus injuries, to really see where he stands. Same with JJ. Both need a run of consistent run of games with Murray in the sidecar. JvG had the balls to drop Zebo, which at the same almost everyone agreed was the right call (not in hindsight obviously), I hope he has the balls to move on from Keatley and give JJ a true shot at out-half. He has the natural talent.

There are no other options. Munster don't have the money for a flashy SR-winning out-half from down south. Any excess Leinster fly-halves are going to Ulster (which seems to be off the cards now). We need to work with what else we have. We really have persisted with Keatley for far too long. Not to use him as a scapegoat for any bad that Munster does but I'm not sure it's a mere coincidence that Munster haven't won anything since Keatley replaced O'Gara in what will be a solid 8 years ago

Burkie1203

Exeter Chiefs

turnikett1 wrote: »

Sexton choked against Clermont and Scarlets last year. What's your point? Bleyendaal has a higher ceiling than Keatley as does JJ. What's your solution? Scrap Bleyendaal altogether because of a few bad games? He needs to be given another season, minus injuries, to really see where he stands. Same with JJ. Both need a run of consistent run of games with Murray in the sidecar. JvG had the balls to drop Zebo, which at the same almost everyone agreed was the right call (not in hindsight obviously), I hope he has the balls to move on from Keatley and give JJ a true shot at out-half. He has the natural talent.

I don't think Bleyendaal is good enough either. I can't see him getting any better if he is constantly out of action.

JJH may be worth persisting with but Scannell seems to be fairly level headed and goes well as a second play maker. Munster need some consistency at out half at the very least.

pickarooney

What's the story with Wycherley? I haven't heard his name in a while.

Buer

turnikett1 wrote: »

Sexton choked against Clermont and Scarlets last year. What's your point? Bleyendaal has a higher ceiling than Keatley as does JJ.

Yes Bleyendaal, no JJH.

Hanrahan is almost 26. His form this season has been well below Keatley's. He may not have been playing outside Murray much but he has also been playing against far weaker opposition and still not showing up well.

He came on at the weekend and played just as bad as Keatley had done. It's time to move on from him as anything other than a back up option. If he wants to have a career, he needs to accept it's not at 10. He could still turn out to be a very useful centre.

molloyjh

Exeter Chiefs

turnikett1 wrote: »

Sexton choked against Clermont and Scarlets last year. What's your point? Bleyendaal has a higher ceiling than Keatley as does JJ. What's your solution? Scrap Bleyendaal altogether because of a few bad games? He needs to be given another season, minus injuries, to really see where he stands. Same with JJ. Both need a run of consistent run of games with Murray in the sidecar. JvG had the balls to drop Zebo, which at the same almost everyone agreed was the right call (not in hindsight obviously), I hope he has the balls to move on from Keatley and give JJ a true shot at out-half. He has the natural talent.

There are no other options. Munster don't have the money for a flashy SR-winning out-half from down south. Any excess Leinster fly-halves are going to Ulster (which seems to be off the cards now). We need to work with what else we have. We really have persisted with Keatley for far too long. Not to use him as a scapegoat for any bad that Munster does but I'm not sure it's a mere coincidence that Munster haven't won anything since Keatley replaced O'Gara in what will be a solid 8 years ago

Sexton absolutely did not choke against Clermont last year. He had 1 bad game against Scarlets for sure, but given that it was very much the exception rather than the rule, I don't think you could hold that against the guy. He's proven time after time to be anything but a choker. On the other hand TB has failed to turn up in any of the big games he has played in for Munster, albeit a small sample size of games. If he hasn't delivered in a big game so far then we have no way of knowing if he will/can. It's a legitimate point to flag that he has choked in all his big games.

Also, 8 years ago Keatley was playing for Connacht so I'm not sure what that point is about. Munster have only won a single trophy in the last 9 seasons. And sure ROG was the first choice 10 at Munster for 2 seasons after that Pro12 win. They haven't won anything else because they haven't been good enough overall. Pinning that on one guy is ridiculous and incredibly unfair. The simple fact is that the level of talent simply isn't there at Munster to compete at the top level right now.

Clegg

Here's the shortlist for European Player of the Year

Anthony Foley Memorial Trophy 2018 shortlist

Scott Fardy (Leinster Rugby)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby)
Maxime Machenaud (Racing 92)
Leone Nakarawa (Racing 92)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster Rugby)

http://www.the42.ie/sexton-european-player-of-the-year-3974959-Apr2018/

Rigor Mortis

Castres

Clegg wrote: »

Here's the shortlist for European Player of the Year

Anthony Foley Memorial Trophy 2018 shortlist

Scott Fardy (Leinster Rugby)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby)
Maxime Machenaud (Racing 92)
Leone Nakarawa (Racing 92)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster Rugby)

http://www.the42.ie/sexton-european-player-of-the-year-3974959-Apr2018/

Really surprised that Beirne didnt make the list.

prawnsambo

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Really surprised that Beirne didnt make the list.

They pretty much always whittle it down to the finalists.

Eod100

prawnsambo wrote: »

They pretty much always whittle it down to the finalists.

Yeah was thinking that, not that i disagree with selections much it's pretty much players of the season from the 2 finalists..

Buer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Really surprised that Beirne didnt make the list.

Had a great pool stage but, as others say, it's nearly always from the two finalists.

He's looking very tired now. His QF was a step down on his pool performances and he was another step down at the weekend where he was well outplayed.

crisco10

Buer wrote: »

Had a great pool stage but, as others say, it's nearly always from the two finalists.

He's looking very tired now. His QF was a step down on his pool performances and he was another step down at the weekend where he was well outplayed.

Also didnt Scarlets lose their first 2 group games? i.e. werent playing that well!