2017-18 Champions Cup

The Lost Sheep

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Bleyendaal choked in the Euro SF and pro12 final last year.

Did he?

turnikett1 wrote: »

Sexton choked against Clermont and Scarlets last year. What's your point? Bleyendaal has a higher ceiling than Keatley as does JJ. What's your solution? Scrap Bleyendaal altogether because of a few bad games? He needs to be given another season, minus injuries, to really see where he stands. Same with JJ. Both need a run of consistent run of games with Murray in the sidecar. JvG had the balls to drop Zebo, which at the same almost everyone agreed was the right call (not in hindsight obviously), I hope he has the balls to move on from Keatley and give JJ a true shot at out-half. He has the natural talent.

There are no other options. Munster don't have the money for a flashy SR-winning out-half from down south. Any excess Leinster fly-halves are going to Ulster (which seems to be off the cards now). We need to work with what else we have. We really have persisted with Keatley for far too long. Not to use him as a scapegoat for any bad that Munster does but I'm not sure it's a mere coincidence that Munster haven't won anything since Keatley replaced O'Gara in what will be a solid 8 years ago

JJ has not shown enough as a 10 for me. I would love him to go back as a 12 but that wont happen. JJ has been given more than enough chances and hasnt ever gotten ahead of Keatley. And as others have said there is a lot more than just Keatley for Munster not winning anything the last 8 years.
Pining Munster not winning anything on Keatley is damn unfair. Munster when winning european titles as well as all those leagues had an international pack, and back ups close to that standard and an international half back pairing with ROG being the 10.. That isnt the case at all now.

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I don't think Bleyendaal is good enough either. I can't see him getting any better if he is constantly out of action.

JJH may be worth persisting with but Scannell seems to be fairly level headed and goes well as a second play maker. Munster need some consistency at out half at the very least.

Bleyendaal is good enough or has shown to be when fit but staying fit has been the problem. Think JJ needs to look beyond being a 10. Cant seem to stick there at all....

Riskymove

Castres

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Pining Munster not winning anything on Keatley is damn unfair.

I agree, and we could do with a few more top level players to help with depth

An issue isn't Keatley per se but the absence of a 10 at the level of other recent champions winning teams is a big factor. JJ, Blyndenaal etc probably wouldn't have changed anything this week.

I think it is really key and it would be rare for a team to win nowadays without
a Sexton, Wilkinson, Farrell etc type player pulling the strings

Eod100

errlloyd wrote: »

This is actually an unknown and there is an important reason why. As things stand the play off would be between Ospreys and Ulster. But the 8th ranked eligible pro14 team is actually Benneton, who are in 5th (like ospreys) and on more points than ospreys. For what it's worth they also come from Leinsters conference.

So I've no idea what would happen in this situation, but if Ospreys qualified ahead of Benneton I'd be disappointed.


Edit, also for the record. It doesn't need a Cardiff win. In fact any semi finalist from the challenge cup can claim a qualifying spot, if the ones ranked ahead of them aren't already qualified. Cardiff, Newcastle and Gloucester are probably going to qualify, but it needs Pau to take back 6th in the top14.

I think I've confused myself tbh.

Looks like if Champions Cup winner, Challenge Cup winner, losing finalist and losing semi-finalists are already qualified then it goes to:

v) Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Champions Cup winner

So I don't think Cardiff winning comes into it because they are already qualified from the Pro14..

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Pau are currently in 7th and play Montpelier away and Toulon at home to finish the season so very possible they'd finish in 7th and get the last Champions Cup spot.

This is assuming Gloucester hold onto 6th place or better, if they don't then they'll qualify in 20th spot for getting to the final regardless.

The other losing semi-finalist Newcastle are currently in 4th but only five points above 7th in the table. We could have a Newcastle v Pau playoff if both finish outside top 6 in their respective leagues and Gloucester finish 6th or better.

Cardiff are already qualified.

So, if those three teams finish 6th or higher in their leagues, then 20th spot could go to Benetton if Leinster win the Champions Cup

Jump_In_Jack

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Pau are currently in 7th and play Montpelier away and Toulon at home to finish the season so very possible they'd finish in 7th and get the last Champions Cup spot.

This is assuming Gloucester hold onto 6th place or better, if they don't then they'll qualify in 20th spot for getting to the final regardless.

The other losing semi-finalist Newcastle are currently in 4th but only five points above 7th in the table. We could have a Newcastle v Pau playoff if both finish outside top 6 in their respective leagues and Gloucester finish 6th or better.

Cardiff are already qualified.

So, if those three teams finish 6th or higher in their leagues, then 20th spot could go to Benetton if Leinster win the Champions Cup

Could go to Benetton if Benetton finish on higher points than the loser of the playoff for the 7th Champions' Cup spot.
So if the loser is Ospreys, Benetton would get the 20th spot.
Otherwise Ulster would get it.
In those circumstances Ulster would be certain of qualifying in one of either 7th or 20th spot.

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could go to Benetton if Benetton finish on higher points than the loser of the playoff for the 7th Champions' Cup spot.
So if the loser is Ospreys, Benetton would get the 20th spot.
Otherwise Ulster would get it.
In those circumstances Ulster would be certain of qualifying in one of either 7th or 20th spot.

Yes, but I'm assuming Ulster at home can beat Ospreys who are pretty much a travesty this season.

Heres Johnny

Nakarawa player of the tournament. The guy is an awesome player.

But he'll only have a runners up medal.

Buer

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Yes, but I'm assuming Ulster at home can beat Ospreys who are pretty much a travesty this season.

They were a travesty. Look at their results since the chance of coach. They almost beat Ulster a couple of weeks ago in Belfast and were missing a rake of players too.

Ulster should beat them but the Ospreys will put in a big showing.

King Chili

Any Munster fans with match tickets not going to Bilbao and looking to offload the tickets?

Eod100

King Chili wrote: »

Any Munster fans with match tickets not going to Bilbao and looking to offload the tickets?

No still going! ☺️

Tigerandahalf

Ospreys scrum will dominate Ulster's and they have a better goalkicker than Ulster in Biggar.
Ospreys are on a great run and I'd fancy them to take Ulster especially if the evening is anyway damp.

Eod100

Looking like Pau won't make 6th so don't think it will get to Leinster winning the CC in terms off CC places next season..

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Eod100 wrote: »

Looking like Pau won't make 6th so don't think it will get to Leinster winning the CC in terms off CC places next season..

2 points off 6th place and last game is at home but it's against Toulon who themselves are looking to secure 2nd place and a home semi, so yeah it doesn't look likely.

Bazzo

Machenaud looks like he just picked up a nasty knee injury against Bordeaux. Couldn't put any weight on it coming off

pickarooney

What absolute butchery for that Imhof try!
One simple pass and Bordeaux score and end up coughing up a field-length intercept score.

Eod100

Long ppd season for any team making it to Pro14 semi or final. Final on 26th. First test in Australia is 9th June.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

What absolute butchery for that Imhof try!
One simple pass and Bordeaux score and end up coughing up a field-length intercept score.

Must be his birthday, another absolute gift.

Machenaud looks fine.

Bazzo

pickarooney wrote: »

Must be his birthday, another absolute gift.

Machenaud looks fine.

Yeah he looks better now, still a slight limp. Iribaren came back on for him even though it was clearly not a head injury...

Buer

According to Chavancy, Machenaud twisted his knee. No indication on severity yet. He returned to the bench with his knee strapped.

He wasn't going to feature next week I imagine so we may not know his availability until the team is named for the final. His absence would be a big blow for Racing.

Eod100

With Pro14 league over and 1 round of league to go in Premiership and Top 14, here's how things are looking for Champions Cup spots:

If Gloucester aren't already qualified, they will get 20th spot as Challenge Cup winner/finalist. If Pau aren't, then will get it as CC semi-finalist.

If both already qualified, Pro14 get another spot if Leinster win Champions Cup. No idea how this works, no need for play-off spot?


Pro 14 do if Racing win.

Pro14

A
Glasgow
Munster
Cardiff

B
Leinster
Scarlets
Edinburgh

Play-off for 7th spot: Ulster v Ospreys weekend of 18th to 19th May'

Premiership

Exeter (80)
Saracens (72)
Wasps (66)
Newcastle (63)
Leicester (58) (Home to Sale)
Gloucester (56) (Away to Saracens)

Sale (54) (Away to Leicester)
Bath (51) (Home to London Irish)


Top 14

Montpellier (81)
Racing (75)
Toulouse (74)
Toulon (73)
Lyon (66)
Castres (64) (Home to Oyonnax)

La Rochelle (62)* (Home to Stade Francais)
Pau (62) (Home to Toulon)



* Think they are ahead cause of better head to head with Pau

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Eod100 wrote: »

If both already qualified, Pro14 get another spot if Leinster win Champions Cup. No idea how this works, no need for play-off spot?

The playoff will still take place regardless as Pro14 is guaranteed 7 qualified team places. Since the winner of the playoff will qualify they don't become one of the "not already qualified" teams mentioned when talking about the 20th spot.

typhoony

Just read report that Machinaud is out for the rest of the season

Guy:Incognito

What do people think of the chances of ticket availability in bilbao? I was in Edinburgh last year but in no way can I use that as a gauge. We had them going over but could have picked up any amount over there. I was back and forth for months deciding whether to book then decided I wasn't going but changed again last night and booked with my mate.

Sabre0001

typhoony wrote: »

Just read report that Machinaud is out for the rest of the season

Was already hard to see past Leinster for the title, but that would surely seal it.

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Was already hard to see past Leinster for the title, but that would surely seal it.

It's confirmed: Torn ACL

Trojan

Very sad for Machenaud. I think Leinster would do it if he was playing, but it makes it that much easier. Teddy Iribaren to come in? Good kicker AFAIR, but no Machenaud.

Sangre

As great as this is for Leinster, it would have been great to play against a Racing team with him in it.

Podge_irl

Sangre wrote: »

As great as this is for Leinster, it would have been great to play against a Racing team with him in it.

Meh, I'm happier he is not there. The history books will forget he wasn't playing and frankly by about half-time I may well be in a state of forgetting he's not playing. I will whether or not we win though.

Buer

Podge_irl wrote: »

Meh, I'm happier he is not there. The history books will forget he wasn't playing and frankly by about half-time I may well be in a state of forgetting he's not playing. I will whether or not we win though.

Tend to agree. The record books don't tell of how Leicester were without the England starting outhalf in the 2009 final.

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

Buer wrote: »

Tend to agree. The record books don't tell of how Leicester were without the England starting outhalf in the 2009 final.

They were down their second choice 10 / centre as well: Aaron Mauger.

Riskymove

Castres

Buer wrote: »

The record books don't tell of how Leicester were without the England starting outhalf in the 2009 final.

Leinster were also missing their starting outhalf!

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

They were down their second choice 10 as well: Jeremy Staunton.

Jesus. That's harsh on them. They loaned him for the week from Wasps and he got injured?!

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

Buer wrote: »

Jesus. That's harsh on them. They loaned him for the week from Wasps and he got injured?!

Gawd dammit wait a few minutes before replying. :pac:
I mixed up Mauger and Staunton.

Sangre

Podge_irl wrote: »

Meh, I'm happier he is not there. The history books will forget he wasn't playing and frankly by about half-time I may well be in a state of forgetting he's not playing. I will whether or not we win though.

This unstoppable CC run has turned me into an old romantic. I suspect I'd have a different tune if we hadn't been utterly dominant in every game since Exeter in the Aviva.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I mixed up Mauger and Staunton.

Said nobody, ever. :pac:

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

Buer wrote: »

Said nobody, ever. :pac:

Yeah yeah :pac:























:mad:

Eponymous

Managed to jump on the Aer Lingus "Sale" yesterday afternoon. €278 for the 07:10 outbound and 23:25 return.

Put a shout out on twitter for a match ticket and was sorted in minutes.

Some day trip this will shape up to be!

Eod100

Eponymous wrote: »

Managed to jump on the Aer Lingus "Sale" yesterday afternoon. €278 for the 07:10 outbound and 23:25 return.

Put a shout out on twitter for a match ticket and was sorted in minutes.

Some day trip this will shape up to be!

Apparently people paid double earlier . Seems mad

Eponymous

Yeah. I wouldn't be too impressed myself if the shoe was on the other foot, but then again, there was no way I would have considered paying those prices. Even €278 plus match ticket is silly money, but a little more justifiable to the domestic authority.

Eod100

Eponymous wrote: »

Yeah. I wouldn't be too impressed myself if the shoe was on the other foot, but then again, there was no way I would have considered paying those prices. Even €278 plus match ticket is silly money, but a little more justifiable to the domestic authority.

I paid about the same for return flights back in October. And have to go through London to Santander on way out so you did pretty good!

Eponymous

Eod100 wrote: »

I paid about the same for return flights back in October. And have to go through London to Santander on way out so you did pretty good!

I was looking into it last week and came up with a route for €242 but it was insane:

Dublin-Madrid (spend Friday night in MAD) -San Sebastian
Sat night in San Sebastian for an early flight back to MAD on Sunday
MAD - LHR - DUB (7.5 hour layover in LHR).

So in context, it's pretty good alright.

Guy:Incognito

http://click.tmclient.ticketmaster.com/?qs=a93f3705c621834224b383493ead3b02b5c167480a358e475b6f8e93aa6df507c9baeba77c715b52ec922e820c21b8b05d55e91b8baed89f54888deeb6255bf5


Public sale on for tickets. I got the 4 I needed earlier. Cheapest were 60 each but they've cheaper categories up now

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

The 2018/2019 Champions Cup 20th spot goes to Gloucester as they've now finished 7th in the Premiership.

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

2018/19:

Pro14: Glasgow, Munster, Cardiff, Leinster, Scarlets, Edinburgh, Ulster OR Ospreys
Aviva: Exeter, Saracens, Wasps, Newcastle, Leicester, Bath
Top14: Montpellier, Racing 92, Toulouse, Toulon, Lyon, Castres

thomond2006

Exeter Chiefs

2017/18 teams that failed to re-qualify for the Champions Cup:
Harlequins, Northampton Saints, La Rochelle, Clermont, Benetton, Ulster OR Ospreys

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Qualified Teams:

Pro14:
- Glasgow
- Leinster
- Munster
- Scarlets
- Edinburgh
- Cardiff Blues
- Ulster/Ospreys**

Premiership
- Exeter
- Saracens
- Wasps
- Newcastle
- Leicester
- Bath
- Gloucester*

Top14:
- Montpellier
- Racing 92
- Toulouse
- Toulon
- Lyon
- Castres


* Ulster v Ospreys playoff for Pro14 qualifying spot no.7 (Kingspan - May 20th 3:05pm)
**Gloucester qualify in overall spot no.20 for reaching the Challenge Cup final but failing to make the Aviva Premiership top 6.


Edit: And Thomond beats me to it my minutes :rolleyes::pac:

ScrubsfanChris

Racing 92

Challenge Cup

Pro14:
- Connacht
- Zebre
- Benneton
- Dragons
- Ulster/Ospreys*

Premiership
- Sale
- Northampton
- Harlequins
- Worcester
- Bristol**

Top14:
- La Rochelle
- Pau
- Clermont
- Bourdeaux
- Agen
- Stade Francais
- Oyonnax***
- Perpignan/Grenoble****

Continental Shield Finalists:
- Enisey-STM (Russia)
- Heidelberger RK (Germany)


* See above.
** Newly promoted Bristol get the last spot, London Irish relegated.
*** Oyonnax enter a relegation playoff with the loser of the Pro D2 final
**** Winner of Pro D2 final (Perpignan or Grenoble) get a spot, loser enters playoff explained above.

Tigerandahalf

It would be good to see Perpignan back in the Top 14 again.
That playoff between the Russians and Germans - does the winner get into Challenge Cup yes?

It would be good to see the Germans getting in.

Benetton

Is it a new thing where no italian teams in the champions cup?

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it a new thing where no italian teams in the champions cup?

Qualification solely on league position now.
Announced for this season about a year ago...