Irish lads

Hammer89

Do you think there is something inherently wrong with Irish lads which prevents them from being 'real' with one another? I ask because I'm just after watching a film called The Night Before on Netflix.

It's about Christmas but really it's about friendship and I found myself getting a little bit emotional at one or two scenes toward the end; not solely because they're quite moving but because I'd love friendships like that in my circle of friends. I should point out that it's a Seth Rogan film and it might seem like the bromance etc is exaggerated but it's really not.

I've spent time in Canada and North America and there just doesn't seem to be the same level of facade and bull**** among them as there is among Irish lads and our circles for one reason or the other. Personally, I'd feel more comfortable confiding in people I know from Canada or the US more than my friends back here. It's a little sad I think. It's sad that you can be mates with people for 20 years and still have no idea whether they're truly happy inside or not. I mean, I've had a couple of heart-to-hearts with the lads, but we're talking about over two decades here. If one of us gets emotional on a night out, or does something which would indicate a deeper ongoing issue, it never gets brought up to that person. It's not forgotten, but it's also not spoken about and that's a major problem because it promotes a sense of loneliness and silent suffering which can't possibly be healthy.

Maybe this is just a common theme in my group - I don't know - but I would bet similar themes occur in other circles of friends. Quite a lot of us will have our friends in our lives longer than we'll have our parents and it's quite tragic that no matter how close you can be to someone, there's also something of a chasm between you emotionally.

dd972

You only have to be introverted or bookish as a male here to be regarded as 'a girl' or having your sexuality questioned, in jest or for real, if you can handle it then you can shrug it off, however not so good for those that can't.

SafeSurfer

The Irish. Great bunch of lads.

jk23

Ireland as a country the past 50 years+ especially for men is dependent on alcohol to cope with feelings. This can manifest itself in alcohol dependence. Only in the past few years had mental health become a mainstream issue so you can see how difficult we find it as a nation to open up.

We are great at showing our compassion through charity and funerals etc. The discussion of feelings or talking to someone about personal feelings seems still to be especially difficult for men. I think Irish women are better at talking things out and supporting each other though.

freshpopcorn

Hammer89 wrote: »

I've spent time in Canada and North America and there just doesn't seem to be the same level of facade and bull**** among them as there is among Irish lads and our circles for one reason or the other. Personally, I'd feel more comfortable confiding in people I know from Canada or the US more than my friends back here. It's a little sad I think. It's sad that you can be mates with people for 20 years and still have no idea whether they're truly happy inside or not. I mean, I've had a couple of heart-to-hearts with the lads, but we're talking about over two decades here. If one of us gets emotional on a night out, or does something which would indicate a deeper ongoing issue, it never gets brought up to that person. It's not forgotten, but it's also not spoken about and that's a major problem because it promotes a sense of loneliness and silent suffering which can't possibly be healthy.

I always get the vibe with most groups of friends can talk to one another about issues and they know they can have a chat of they want to but you should go to your friend for the chat.
Lots of people get emotional on night out and it gets discussed but it's up to you to raise the issue again in my opinion.
I experienced something with a group before a lad said he was a little worried about girlfriends/life/future/etc on a drunken night out. The next day the lad just wanted to move on and his fiends treated him as normal.(He could talk to them if he wanted) One guy tough basically asked him did he want to talk about life every day and made him feel like a special case.

Arsemageddon

Saying it's all Irish men is both a cliché and an excuse. You should be capable of being your own man regardless of what others think of you

If people don't accept you for who you are they are just acquaintances, not friends.

freshpopcorn

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Saying it's all Irish men is both a cliché and an excuse. You should be capable of being your own man regardless of what others think of you

If people don't accept you for who you are they are just acquaintances, not friends.

I often find that some groups have a guy who doesn't really click with the group but he sort of tags along and then he runs into difficulty when the banter gets to much or he begins to feel isolated.
The person then ends up in an older age bracket ad finds it hard to make friends with similar interests and group doesn't want to be rude to them so they stay tagging along.

dd972

dd972 wrote: »

You only have to be introverted or bookish as a male here to be regarded as 'a girl' or having your sexuality questioned, in jest or for real, if you can handle it then you can shrug it off, however not so good for those that can't.

If your "friends" call you a girl for being bookish, then why are they your friends? All my friends are bookish or "nerdy" in some way.

Maybe you need new friends?

JupiterKid

Alcohol seems to be the only way many if not most Irish men can really open up emotionally to each other. Sad.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

Alcohol seems to be the only way many if not most Irish men can really open up emotionally to each other. Sad.

Sad. Or completely false.

greencap

Gaaaaayyyy.

Outlaw Pete

I like the look of North America and Canada too.

Used to love watching Due South and Northern Exposure etc etc when I was someone who still had dreams.

Anytime you fancy going for rip, OP. Just holler.

AttentionBebe

Big bag of feelings with the lads.

eeguy

Different culture I suppose.

Ed Byrne said in an interview he had to alter one of his jokes on the US tour.

The joke was about how lads are always messing, cockblocking each other and insulting each other, while girls are usually very tight knit and know everything in each others lives.

This joke didn't land in the US because lads are full of the bro's before hoes, fraternity friends for life mentality, while women are more likely to be catty and duplicitous.

Obviously large generalizations, but you get the rough idea from movies.

Alf Veedersane

A lot of men don't confide in other men because they may not want to admit they're struggling with something - it's not an indictment of their friends.

I know I could talk to my proper friends about anything if I needed to because I know they're genuine friends.

If you don't feel you can confide in your friends then maybe you don't think they're genuine friends.

Andrew Flexing

I never understood this too-emotional distance being kept with your so called closest friends. I know people in late 30s/early 40s still call their close friends by their school nickname eg "Ryaner" or "Smithy", I always thought this kept that gap intact.

tomwaterford

Tbh the few friends I have,its rare enough I see them,

And it's rare enough I'd be the type to confide/talk about any personal problems etc

I have I tend to try solve them myself and keep them private

snowflaker

Smithy? And Chinese Alan???

freshpopcorn

Sometimes in the past I've seen ads/interviews for mental health etc from the UK/USA/Canada/Australia. They always say the same thing as the Irish one's that young men are more likely to die by suicide and that they don't talk to one another. So, I don't believe it's just an Irish problem!

Pac1Man

A feeling?

Tell me how

JupiterKid wrote:

Alcohol seems to be the only way many if not most Irish men can really open up emotionally to each other. Sad.

That's not my experience. It does take someone to put themselves out there but I think most people want/need/and are capable of doing so.
I also think it happens much better and more organically when 1:1 at appropriate times.
I wouldn't rock up to the boys at half six on a Saturday evening and try to have a deep/meaningful conversation. In groups, bravado will likely lead to someone, probably someone must in need of such support, to be insulting or dismissive of it.

There's a time for banter, camaraderie and light hearted interactions and a time for deeper connections, within the same relationships.

Andrew Flexing

snowflaker wrote: »

Smithy? And Chinese Alan???

What a show!

dd972

dd972 wrote: »

You only have to be introverted or bookish as a male here to be regarded as 'a girl' or having your sexuality questioned, in jest or for real, if you can handle it then you can shrug it off, however not so good for those that can't.

Maybe you're hanging around with the wrong people. I'm 'bookish' and have never been regarded as a girl. That would be a downright odd insult in the first place.

If someone said I was a girl, for reading, I'd honestly take no notice, and assume they were just dim.

McCrack

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The Irish. Great bunch of lads.

No that's the Chinese

erica74

Speaking on behalf of my husband, he has a very close relationship with his best friend. They've been friends since they were 4 so nearly 40 years now. They talk to each other about their feelings and life and all the things going on. Alcohol would never be involved when they chat like this. What I mean is, if my husband's best friend shows up at our house and needs to talk or needs advice, it's a cup of tea and a chat. And vice versa.
I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have at least one friend who they can turn to like that.

Pero_Bueno

Hammer89 wrote: »

Do you think there is something inherently wrong with Irish lads which prevents them from being 'real' with one another? I ask because I'm just after watching a film called The Night Before on Netflix.

It's about Christmas but really it's about friendship and I found myself getting a little bit emotional at one or two scenes toward the end; not solely because they're quite moving but because I'd love friendships like that in my circle of friends. I should point out that it's a Seth Rogan film and it might seem like the bromance etc is exaggerated but it's really not.

I've spent time in Canada and North America and there just doesn't seem to be the same level of facade and bull**** among them as there is among Irish lads and our circles for one reason or the other. Personally, I'd feel more comfortable confiding in people I know from Canada or the US more than my friends back here. It's a little sad I think. It's sad that you can be mates with people for 20 years and still have no idea whether they're truly happy inside or not. I mean, I've had a couple of heart-to-hearts with the lads, but we're talking about over two decades here. If one of us gets emotional on a night out, or does something which would indicate a deeper ongoing issue, it never gets brought up to that person. It's not forgotten, but it's also not spoken about and that's a major problem because it promotes a sense of loneliness and silent suffering which can't possibly be healthy.

Maybe this is just a common theme in my group - I don't know - but I would bet similar themes occur in other circles of friends. Quite a lot of us will have our friends in our lives longer than we'll have our parents and it's quite tragic that no matter how close you can be to someone, there's also something of a chasm between you emotionally.

Sure but they have this North American insincere closeness "I love you bro" ... total false crap!!!


Irish lads are more open and honest and what you see is what you get.

lazybones32

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Maybe you're hanging around with the wrong people. I'm 'bookish' and have never been regarded as a girl. That would be a downright odd insult in the first place.

If someone said I was a girl, for reading, I'd honestly take no notice, and assume they were just dim.

I've always regarded you as a girl. The kind that kicks her legs out sideways when running...
XOXO

Alf Veedersane

snowflaker wrote: »

Smithy? And Chinese Alan???

Chinese Alan is a gent.

"I'll have a number 3 with a hug, please, Alan"

He gives the best hugs.





Squeezy.

Andrew Flexing

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Chinese Alan is a gent.

"I'll have a number 3 with a hug, please, Alan"

He gives the best hugs.


Squeezy.

D'ya fancy an omelette?

donegaLroad

jk23 wrote: »

Ireland as a country the past 50 years+ especially for men is dependent on alcohol to cope with feelings. This can manifest itself in alcohol dependence. Only in the past few years had mental health become a mainstream issue so you can see how difficult we find it as a nation to open up.

We are great at showing our compassion through charity and funerals etc. The discussion of feelings or talking to someone about personal feelings seems still to be especially difficult for men. I think Irish women are better at talking things out and supporting each other though.

Ironically, one of the few places that people can talk openly with each other in a genuine way, is probably Alcoholics Anonymous.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Saying it's all Irish men is both a cliché and an excuse. You should be capable of being your own man regardless of what others think of you

If people don't accept you for who you are they are just acquaintances, not friends.

But this is his question: is this attitude of not being honest with feelings to friends in order to feel more accepted more prevalent in Ireland? The so-called "Laddish" culture. I'm of the opinion it was in the past, but less so nowadays.

Agricola

The funerals thing is an interesting paradox. No formality, no innate awkwardness around death, especially with the older generation. Deaths are usually community events where the life of the deceased is celebrated. People love a good funeral in general.

But on the flip side you have the kind of emotional shutdown spoken about in this thread, which feeds into the very high suicide rate, esp among young males. People who may need help are abandoned largely, and then when they end their lives, everyone comes out of the woodwork to commiserate.

wakka12

Thats interesting because my friend and I were discussing this when we were flying back from Canada a few weeks ago. We found it funny how youd see groups of irish students on the bus or wherever and their conversations are so small talky..these are obviously good friends if they came on holidays together but their conversations all seemed so fluffy and boring really, like any random combination of people, strangers or not, any age or personality, could have been placed in the conversation instead and it wouldnt have had any impact on the quality of conversation..
And I know youll say oh youre just seeing them talking in public place..well canadian friends talking together was different. They seemed so much closer by the way they talked, they talked about interesting things,and it actually seemed like people were getting to know eachother even if it was just 'small talk' or similar

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

pilly

I agree to a certain extent OP that Irish men can find it difficult to really talk about stuff but on the other hand I think the American and Canadian approach can be a bit false. They tell everyone they love them and they'll be there for them etc. etc. but how much do they really mean it? Are they really there for each other when it comes to it?

If you can find one good friend in Ireland you'll have someone who is genuinely there for you for life.

bigar

Pero_Bueno wrote: »

Irish lads are more open and honest and what you see is what you get.

Talking as Non Irish resident of 15 years, I strongly disagree. Irish people are one of the most superficial people I know and I feel they all hide behind a mask.

It is very hard to get through their armour. Women are even harder to get through to as they put up a shield of "fakeness". It needs a lot of hard work to become close to Irish people.

Alf Veedersane

bigar wrote: »

Talking as Non Irish resident of 15 years, I strongly disagree. Irish people are one of the most superficial people I know and I feel they all hide behind a mask.

It is very hard to get through their armour. Women are even harder to get through to as they put up a shield of "fakeness". It needs a lot of hard work to become close to Irish people.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I've found that people of all nationalities tend to be more 'honest' the older they get.

But I do think that we can be guarded around people we don't know and it takes a bit of getting to know people to get to that 'honest' person.

Sure, there are plenty that are fake and put up a shield but I don't think that's the majority, objectively. That said, people who experience otherwise will disagree.

Anyway, I don't think that's hugely relevant either way. You go through life and you might have lots of friends but you could probably count close friends and people you can open up to on one hand, regardless of where you're from.

server down

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Saying it's all Irish men is both a cliché and an excuse. You should be capable of being your own man regardless of what others think of you

If people don't accept you for who you are they are just acquaintances, not friends.

He didn’t. He asked was it.

My long term friends aren’t that deep really. We get together to joke, talk ****e, drink, sometimes I play sports with some of them. I’ve gone on cycling holidays with others. While ago though.

Not sure about the state of their marrriages or much else. Maybe they have existential dread everyday. Maybe they are seeing a shrink. Anyway acquaintanceship is a reward on its own. You can buck someone up on a night out by having a good night out.

mzungu

bigar wrote: »

Talking as Non Irish resident of 15 years, I strongly disagree. Irish people are one of the most superficial people I know and I feel they all hide behind a mask.

It is very hard to get through their armour. Women are even harder to get through to as they put up a shield of "fakeness". It needs a lot of hard work to become close to Irish people.

Everyone puts on an act. Granted, some more so than others, but you will find that everywhere and it is not a trait of one nationality or another. The Irish are no different to anybody else in that regard.

al87987

I think most Irish lads default mode is banter/craic, especially in a group, so when somebody does change up the mood with a more serious topic, it can be dismissed or glossed over.

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

server down

al87987 wrote: »

I think most Irish lads default mode is banter/craic, especially in a group, so when somebody does change up the mood with a more serious topic, it can be dismissed or glossed over.

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

Yeh. A long term friend of mine has a father with parkinson's disease. He never really talks about it, and I have asked one on one. With the larger group of friends we just nave the "bants", as the kids say.

Not that theres anything wrong with that, a good night out can cure some worries, lighten your mood etc.

Alf Veedersane

al87987 wrote: »

I think most Irish lads default mode is banter/craic, especially in a group, so when somebody does change up the mood with a more serious topic, it can be dismissed or glossed over.

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

I lived with one of my best mates. When my Mam died from cancer, he actually didn't skirt around it...he knew that I would be happier to talk about it. I was. I didn't want to mourn - I did plenty of that on my own - but I did want to talk about it, about her and he was happy to be part of that.

Again, it's n=1 but just an observation that lads aren't just craic addicts.

dd972

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Maybe you're hanging around with the wrong people. I'm 'bookish' and have never been regarded as a girl. That would be a downright odd insult in the first place.

If someone said I was a girl, for reading, I'd honestly take no notice, and assume they were just dim.

I had work bullying situations in mind when I was typing my comment, I'm one of those people who seems different after people engage me in conversation as to what they're thinking or guessing about me beforehand, I envy extroverts in the sense that people seem to 'get them' more easily, sort of 'what you see is what you get'.

freshpopcorn

al87987 wrote: »

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

A few years ago a family member had cancer and we wanted to keep it private in the family. A friend found out(log story) they drove me mad with questions and couldn't understand it was a private family matter and I didn't want to sit down and cry about it!

Shemale

There is still that stigma of man up and you have to be a hard man and it's utter bollox. My mam was diagnosed with Alzheimer's 7 years ago and it's only mam and dad at home now and he has already seen his mam and my other granny deteriorate and die from Alzheimer's, I can't imagine what he is going through seeing the love of his life going downhill with it knowing how bad it is going to get.

I try really hard to get him talk and most of the time he doesn't want to but when he does invariably he breaks down and when I hug him he always says something along the lines of "I am so weak" or "I am a wimp" and I tell him not to be so stupid, this is clearly ingrained in him from society as his dad died when he was 8 so it can't have been from him.

There has been an increase in highlighting the issue of mens mental health but at the same time there doesn't seem to be much information about number of suicides, I have no doubt a high number of these single car collisons are suicides.

The RSA number is always floated about but I don't recall hearing the suicide numbers, there sadly is still very much a stigma around mental health which really doesn't help.

In relation to chatting in the pub, my best mates and I have been friends decades, we are all married with young kids and only 3 of us are still in the area and we work different hours so the only time we meet up is in the pub maybe twice a month if we are lucky.

We always talked things through and helped each other and then the middle of the night my wife got a call from a friend of mine saying he was calling over in 2 minutes as he had to talk to me, worried about what might be going on with him I was at the door and when I saw his face my heart sank.

One of the lads was out of work on stress leave and kept it to himself and told the wife she was not to tell us, he ended up taking his life and leaving his wife and kids behind. Not one of us had a clue what he was battling with so now we don't know what we could have done if anything had we known, we were all sure all problems had been shared among the group and well managed so now we are all on a whatsapp and if anyone doesn't get involved for a few days we reach out to them.

We found out after that withdrawing from friends and family is a classic sign that someone is depressed, before we lost our friend we would have been ripping the piss out of someone who had gone off the radar asking if the missus has taken the phone or if he is not allowed to talk to the lads anymore.

For any lads reading this I would just say be mindful of changes in your friends behaviour especially if they suddenly withdraw from the group, pay them a visit and don't involve drink as this can make the depression worse.