Match Thread - Liverpool V Manchester United - Sky 12:30pm

Rekop dog

bucketybuck wrote: »

So you think the reality is that Liverpool are a better team more likely to win this game than United are?

I didn't say that. Liverpool are at home, it's not quite as big an advantage in the premier league anymore but it's still one all the same.

I'd put more weight on a 38 game sample from last year than a 7 game one from this year. That's not to say United haven't improved, they have, but I doubt it's a drastically as some may think. I could be proven wrong though, we'll see.

As I said earlier Liverpool have an impressive record vs the "top 6". Since the start of last season this reads W6 D5 L1. That's an excellent return and shows they get it right more often than not in these sort of big games. In that time United's read W2 D4 L4.

We'll know a lot more about their credentials after this game but for now I'd be edging slightly towards the home side.

jacool

Sporting Life's David John has weighed in with his prediction: Liverpool 1-2 Manchester United He fancies United @9/5, agreeing with Mourinho's belief that 12 month's from the 0-0 draw "We are better"

Rekop dog

user2011 wrote: »

Fools and money??? :pac:

Well not really, it's usually the professionals with complex statistical algorithms that have the biggest influence over the prices.

SEPT 23 1989

First chance to see where united are really at this season

Utopia Parkway

I'll go for a Mark Lawrenson special. A grim 1-1.

Vicxas

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I'll go for a Mark Lawrenson special. A grim 1-1.

With the state we're in at the moment i'd take that

Hulk Hands

Rekop dog wrote: »

Well not really, it's usually the professionals with complex statistical algorithms that have the biggest influence over the prices.

Exactly. And the markets are rating United as the better side by quite a considerable margin. Liverpool would need to be 6/5 here for the teams to be rated equal. They're 7/4+

2 average enough teams in an average league.

Hope to see an 11 v 11 brawl

Are Am Eye

The safest thing is to just back a utd win.
Trying to pinpoint a 0-4 or will it be 0-5 is the type of greed that will slip you up.

Unearthly

United should be winning this. Anything less would be poor dropped points

Giggsy11

Would gladly take a point. Anfield away is one of the toughest fixture and draw would be point gained rather than 2 points dropped. Opposite for Liverpool as it's home game for them.

Utopia Parkway

Unearthly wrote: »

United should be winning this. Anything less would be poor dropped points

Not sure why United should be casually winning it as if it was Crystal Palace they were playing. It's still a very difficult fixture for just about anyone and while Liverpool have been stuttering lately they haven't been playing "that" badly. They are only 2 points behind Spurs and 1 behind Chelsea in the table.

Never know where some get their supreme confidence for these games. Anything can happen in them and they are often not the best spectacles. To say the least.

bennyineire

MagicIRL wrote: »

I could see Herrera being set on Coutinho like he was on Hazard last season. Take Coutinho out of the game, with Manissing, and Liverpool are severely neutered imo.

Eh Salah ?

Rekop dog

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Exactly. And the markets are rating United as the better side by quite a considerable margin. Liverpool would need to be 6/5 here for the teams to be rated equal. They're 7/4+

Where did I say they were better? The discussion was about what happens tomorrow. A team can be better in big games but worse overall. It's not mutually exclusive.

dfx-

Safe bet is a low scoring game, probably just United more likely to snatch a goal in those circumstances. Very low chance of a high scoring game.

Ideally no dubious sending offs, bad tackles, dives or penalties please...

bennyineire

The delusional is strong in this thread (and the Utd thread) even for Utd. fans.

Not only do most of Utd fans expect Utd to win but you expect them to thump Liverpool for 3 or 4, gimme a break will ya.

So Utd have beaten a few pub teams 4 - 0
The next 5/6 league games will bring them back to earth in fairness.

Last season Spurs came to Anfield in flying form (won 5 or 6 on the trot), Liverpool had only won 1 in their last 5 games.
Liverpool won 2 - 0 and should have won by more.

IF Utd. win tomorrow (and that's a big if) it will be a stifling 1 - 0 thanks to Jose parking the bus. Don't anybody here think they will win any other way, if you think different then you don't know football or Jose very well

Personally myself I think Liverpool will come out of the traps for the first 20-30 minutes and it will be in this period where the game will be won/lost.
If Liverpool can score 1 or 2 in this period (they will have the chances) then they will win, a big if for sure but very possible.

I think they will do it myself tomorrow but I would say that wouldn't I (Liverpool fan).

Liverpool to win 2 -1

WinnyThePoo

Alberto moreno to start and united to win 2-0

pjohnson

bennyineire wrote: »

Eh Salah ?

Even Liverpool fans have complained about Salah's awful finishing. He can run but hes not a scorer like Mane

Liam McPoyle

bennyineire wrote: »

The delusional is strong in this thread (and the Utd thread) even for Utd. fans.

Not only do most of Utd fans expect Utd to win but you expect them to thump Liverpool for 3 or 4, gimme a break will ya.

So Utd have beaten a few pub teams 4 - 0
The next 5/6 league games will bring them back to earth in fairness.

Last season Spurs came to Anfield in flying form (won 5 or 6 on the trot), Liverpool had only won 1 in their last 5 games.
Liverpool won 2 - 0 and should have won by more.

IF Utd. win tomorrow (and that's a big if) it will be a stifling 1 - 0 thanks to Jose parking the bus. Don't anybody here think they will win any other way, if you think different then you don't know football or Jose very well

Personally myself I think Liverpool will come out of the traps for the first 20-30 minutes and it will be in this period where the game will be won/lost.
If Liverpool can score 1 or 2 in this period (they will have the chances) then they will win, a big if for sure but very possible.

I think they will do it myself tomorrow but I would say that wouldn't I (Liverpool fan).

Liverpool to win 2 -1

Pub teams?

Ye stuttered past Palace one nil, stuttered past Leicester and drew with Burnley and an awful Moscow outfit.

United are scoring alot and ye are conceeding alot.

United have only conceded 2 and ye are struggling in front of goal.

Ye are missing yer best player.

Not really seeing why it's surprising fans are confident.

I don't expect a route but will be disappointed without 3 points all things considered.

scudzilla

8-0 United

bennyineire

pjohnson wrote: »

Even Liverpool fans have complained about Salah's awful finishing. He can run but hes not a scorer like Mane

7 goals already this season, more than Mane BTW :cool:

bennyineire

Business Cat wrote: »

Pub teams?

Ye stuttered past Palace one nil, stuttered past Leicester and drew with Burnley and an awful Moscow outfit.

United are scoring alot and ye are conceeding alot.

United have only conceded 2 and ye are struggling in front of goal.

Ye are missing yer best player.

Not really seeing why it's surprising fans are confident.

I don't expect a route but will be disappointed without 3 points all things considered.

But I thought Coutinho was our best player according to you guys,hard to keep up with ye lot mmmm
Utd are missing Pogba and Fellini you seem to forget, ye will not be bossing midfield, take the blinkers of Mod

Liam McPoyle

bennyineire wrote: »

But I thought Coutinho was our best player according to you guys,hard to keep up with ye lot mmmm
Utd are missing Pogba and Fellini you seem to forget, ye will not be bossing midfield, take the blinkers of Mod

Firstly I've never said PC was yer best player.

He is supremely over rated imo but that's neither here nor there, there is no group consensus with any supporters.

Pogba hasn't played since early September and with the exception of Southampton we have not really struggled against anyone.

Matic has been our most influential player imo.

As for me being blinkered, pot, meet kettle.

Charlie19

Surprised the thread is still open, just shows that both set of supporters can be civil and not act like children.

Need a big performance from Coutinho and I'm hoping the the Ref doesn't spoil this tie.

pjohnson

bennyineire wrote: »

But I thought Coutinho was our best player according to you guys,hard to keep up with ye lot mmmm
Utd are missing Pogba and Fellini you seem to forget, ye will not be bossing midfield, take the blinkers of Mod

I wouldnt be mentioning blinkers

bucketybuck

bennyineire wrote: »

Utd are missing Pogba and Fellini you seem to forget, ye will not be bossing midfield, take the blinkers of Mod

Really? We may or may not end up bossing midfield, but I would certainly take Matic and Herrera over Can and Henderson any day of the week. I think most neutrals would as well, so if any bossing is to be done why wouldn't United be the ones doing it?

Jayop

Charlie19 wrote: »

Surprised the thread is still open, just shows that both set of supporters can be civil and not act like children.

Need a big performance from Coutinho and I'm hoping the the Ref doesn't spoil this tie.

Ah here, you're after jinxing this.

Rumple Stillson

Lukaku has 1 in 7 against Liverpool, generally think when games are intense he doesn't have the technical ability to cope and that's why he struggles in big games. Liverpool are very generous defensively though so expect him to buck the trend tomorrow and get on the score sheet.

Should be enough to see United home in a 6-1 loss.

bucketybuck

I thought the "doesn't do it against the big teams" thing had been debunked by this stage? That his record against the top 6 last season was as good as Kane's, Aguero's or anybody else's? Is that old chestnut really going to be trotted out now?

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

I thought the "doesn't do it against the big teams" thing had been debunked by this stage? That his record against the top 6 last season was as good as Kane's, Aguero's or anybody else's? Is that old chestnut really going to be trotted out now?

When form isn't on your side, you've got to fall back on cliche :pac:

Rumple Stillson

bucketybuck wrote: »

I thought the "doesn't do it against the big teams" thing had been debunked by this stage? That his record against the top 6 last season was as good as Kane's, Aguero's or anybody else's? Is that old chestnut really going to be trotted out now?

15 goals against the top 6 in 57 games, I don't know if that's debunking it. Perhaps it is.

Rumple Stillson

Lord TSC wrote: »

When form isn't on your side, you've got to fall back on cliche :pac:

Most clichés begin with some element of truth, the Lukaku "doesn't do it against the big teams" narrative is still alive and well as far as I've heard. But I'm not that well informed to be fair.

Giggsy11

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

15 goals against the top 6 in 57 games, I don't know if that's debunking it. Perhaps it is.

In the last 2 seasons Lukaku played 22 games against Top 6 (teams who actually finished top 6 in that season rather than fixed top 6) and scored 8 goals.

To compare with other strikers, Kane scored 8 in 19 games and Aguero 5 in 16 games.

Jayop

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

15 goals against the top 6 in 57 games, I don't know if that's debunking it. Perhaps it is.

For Everton and West Brom yeah?

I'd imagine you'd struggle to find a striker from either of those clubs with a much better record than that. You know the thing about playing for a smaller club against a big club is that it's hard to score because you don't get many chances, yeah?

Rumple Stillson

Giggsy11 wrote: »

In the last 2 seasons Lukaku played 22 games against Top 6 (teams who actually finished top 6 in that season rather than fixed top 6) and scored 8 goals.

To compare with other strikers, Kane scored 8 in 19 games and Aguero 5 in 16 games.

My opinion is probably largely been shaped by how dreadful he has been against Liverpool in the last few seasons. But that seems a decent return. As I said I expect him to score tomorrow against that Liverpool defence.

Giggsy11

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

My opinion is probably largely been shaped by how dreadful he has been against Liverpool in the last few seasons. But that seems a decent return. As I said I expect him to score tomorrow against that Liverpool defence.

Happens. Kane always played poorly against us and few ManUtd fans thought he isn't all that.

Jayop

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Happens. Kane always played poorly against us and few ManUtd fans thought he isn't all that.

Blind ones??

bucketybuck

Aguero has only 2 goals in 10 games against Everton. It happens. For myself I think Lukaku's record in the big games is fine for a young lad playing for mid-table teams, especially when said record is already comparable to his peers.

Rumple Stillson

Jayop wrote: »

For Everton and West Brom yeah?

I'd imagine you'd struggle to find a striker from either of those clubs with a much better record than that. You know the thing about playing for a smaller club against a big club is that it's hard to score because you don't get many chances, yeah?

Sure I get it yeah?

He's scored a few goals against mediocre opposition since his big move to United and now he's a United legend who must be defended against all criticism yeah?

But regardless of the statistics, the narrative that he doesn't do it against big teams remains out there yeah?

Giggsy11

Jayop wrote: »

Blind ones??

Maybe. :pac:

mikeym

If Liverpool get thrashed there will be huge pressure on Klopp.

I cant see Liverpool winning this but then again Ive got so many predictions wrong in the past.

Jayop

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Sure I get it yeah?

He's scored a few goals against mediocre opposition since his big move to United and now he's a United legend who must be defended against all criticism yeah?

But regardless of the statistics, the narrative that he doesn't do it against big teams remains out there yeah?

Mocking is catching yeah....:rolleyes:

Scoring against mediocre opposition is what wins you titles. Rack up the goals against the likes of Palace rather than draw with them 3-3 and ruin a title challenge.

There's criticism of him in the United thread. You are free to throw whatever critique you want and people are free to counter it.

Rumple Stillson

Jayop wrote: »

Mocking is catching yeah....:rolleyes:

Scoring against mediocre opposition is what wins you titles. Rack up the goals against the likes of Palace rather than draw with them 3-3 and ruin a title challenge.

There's criticism of him in the United thread. You are free to throw whatever critique you want and people are free to counter it.

Well luckily for Lukaku he is playing against mediocre opposition tomorrow based on recent form.

Perhaps the doesn't do it against the big teams is a more recent development, 5 in his last 35 against the top 6 makes for poorer reading. But statistics can be used to prove anything, 73% of people know that...

Agree with your point though, Liverpool are crying out for a Lukaku against lower teams. Apologies for the mockery, felt you were being slightly patronising in your reply.

Jayop

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Well luckily for Lukaku he is playing against mediocre opposition tomorrow based on recent form.

Perhaps the doesn't do it against the big teams is a more recent development, 5 in his last 35 against the top 6 makes for poorer reading. But statistics can be used to prove anything, 73% of people know that...

Agree with your point though, Liverpool are crying out for a Lukaku against lower teams. Apologies for the mockery, felt you were being slightly patronising in your reply.

The two yeahs were coincidence. It actually reads like I was a 14 year old chav so don't worry!

Rayne Wooney

Serious test of bottle tomorrow for those United players, they should be winning, better team, better manager, better form but we'll have to wait and see won’t we

user2011

Rekop dog wrote: »

Well not really, it's usually the professionals with complex statistical algorithms that have the biggest influence over the prices.

And complex statistical algorithm professional's are backing United, oddsportal is showing Marathonbet opening United over 2/1 they're now near same price as Liverpool. Near 1/2 drop in odds.

It's not just United fans that have confidence heading into this game.

I've confidence going into this, my own prediction is 2-1 it's going to be a close game especially after international break plus early KO. I'd rather be going in with confidence as a fan then with hope.

Jose has been talking about the confidence he is seeing in the players from pre season, said not to long ago that he wanted to see how the players reaction when they went behind, seen this 1-0 down to Stoke went 2-1 up yeah it ended 2-2 but he seen the right reaction didn't get over the line, didn't lose. The confidence is with the United players it's with the fans and it's with United from the betting side of things. No need to be upset about the confidence in United winning this game.

Rumple Stillson

user2011 wrote: »

And complex statistical algorithm professional's are backing United, oddsportal is showing Marathonbet opening United over 2/1 they're now near same price as Liverpool. Near 1/2 drop in odds.

It's not just United fans that have confidence heading into this game.

I've confidence going into this, my own prediction is 2-1 it's going to be a close game especially after international break plus early KO. I'd rather be going in with confidence as a fan then with hope.

Jose has been talking about the confidence he is seeing in the players from pre season, said not to long ago that he wanted to see how the players reaction when they went behind, seen this 1-0 down to Stoke went 2-1 up yeah it ended 2-2 but he seen the right reaction didn't get over the line, didn't lose. The confidence is with the United players it's with the fans and it's with United from the betting side of things. No need to be upset about the confidence in United winning this game.

On recent form you would have to be confident if you are a United fan but I don't think recent form will count for much. I still expect Mourinho to revert to type and get men behind the ball and launch long balls forward at every opportunity towards Lukaku. It might be enough to get a win this time round though.

bennyineire

mikeym wrote: »

If Liverpool get thrashed there will be huge pressure on Klopp.

I cant see Liverpool winning this but then again Ive got so many predictions wrong in the past.

They won't so he won't, why are so many people talking about Utd thrashing Liverpool at Anfield, as bad as Liverpool have been this season they have only lost once on all competitions

Jayop

bennyineire wrote: »

They won't so he won't, why are so many people talking about Utd thrashing Liverpool at Anfield, as bad as Liverpool have been this season they have only lost once on all competitions

Most of it is pure bullishness for the craic. I'm sure that if any of us United fans were to be laying our last euro on this it would be a draw or a one goal win.

The last 5 times this fixture has been played in the league have been...

16/17 - 0-0
15/16 - 0-1
14/15 - 1-2
13/14 - 1-0
12/13 - 1-2

No more than a 1 goal win and an average of 1.6 goals per game. You have to go back to 2010/11 for the last time this game at Anfield was decided by more than 1 goal.

I expect it to be a tight cagey affair. It'll probably start pretty quickly and then settle into a drab enough game with limited chances. Whoever scores first will not lose the game.

Charlie19

Charlie19 wrote: »

Surprised the thread is still open, just shows that both set of supporters can be civil and not act like children.

Need a big performance from Coutinho and I'm hoping the the Ref doesn't spoil this tie.

Good to see the thread open and remaining civil so far.

It's only October, so tomorrow should be no one's cup final really. That said, 3 points are always important, and a decent win for either team would mean more than the 3 points:

-United have been scoring for fun for the most part so far this season, and have been conceding very little. However, this is their first test against a Top 6 team from last season. Top 6 teams were not easy fixtures for Jose's United last season, home or away. A win for this United team tomorrow will show improvement on that front, as well as keep a decent run of form going.

-Liverpool have looked ruthless in attack at times. They put Arsenal to the sword, were looking the better team v City until they went a man down, and now have Coutinho back in that attack. However, their defence is less than solid, susceptible to the odd comedy of errors, and this includes the Goalkeeper position. So far this season, Liverpool have looked like a team who could challenge for the league, and then in the next game a team who would be lucky to challenge for Top 4. If they come out of the blocks tomorrow resembling the former, United could be in a bit of trouble.

Ok, that's my attempt at objectivity done. Hope to fúck United stuff them and definitely think we have enough in our side to achieve some kind of win. However, all the above still applies - United face a tougher test than they have done so far this season, and Liverpool could have one of those 'Team of the Week' performances which they can come up with even in the midst of a stagnant run.

Even though we've gotten quite used to United winning comfortably lately, I can't say that I outright expect United to win or win well. I will take any win, and to be honest a point at Anfield after International break wouldn't be the worst result.

Hope it's a good game. Oh, and I'll be very happy to (hopefully) see Herrera back in the United side. After his absence, I hope he will be fine. He better not be over-eager and run the risk of a red card.