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Selling House with Tenants
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13-10-2017 12:42pm#1
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Im not entirely sure what you believe intend to mean, but if I intend to do something, I know i will do it?
Anyway, the following is a extract from HC comments
37. The reason must therefore be one of the six justifying reasons identified in the Table to s.34. In construing s.34, it cannot be ignored that the time frame of three months within which it is intended to sell is quite short, and in that context a landlord may terminate a tenancy on the grounds of an intended sale only if he has taken some preliminary steps to place a property on the market, as it would not always or perhaps usually be possible for an owner to predict that he or she would make an binding contract for sale within three months of placing the premises on the market. A landlord may not seek to recover possession of premises the subject matter of a Part 4 tenancy merely on account of a general intention on his part to sell the premises, and the intention must be to sell within three months and not merely, for example, to place the property on the market to test the market or to place the property on the market and wait a period of time until the appropriate price is achieved. The intention must be one to enter into a binding contract within three months of the termination of the tenancy, and that intention must exist before a notice of termination can validity be served. That in many cases will involve the requirement that the landlord has identified a potential purchaser, or commenced negotiations towards an eventual sale. Because of the short time frame of three months, it does not seem to me that the Oireachtas intended permitting termination of a Part 4 tenancy merely in anticipation of the commencement of the sale or advertising process. I would not go so far as to say that the intention was that a notice of termination could be served only in the context of an identified sale, but the legislation in my view envisages more that a mere intention to sell, and requires a landlord to have as a matter of fact, and to state, that he intends to bind himself to a sale within three months of termination.
38. Thus, I consider that the operative reason for termination on account of ground 3 in the table to s.34 is not that the landlord intends to sell the premises, but that he intends to bind himself to a contract for sale within three months of termination. There is a difference in emphasis and meaning between the two statements of intent, and that difference is relevant and central to the protection afforded by the legalisation. An intention to sell simpliciter is not sufficient to terminate.
Im sure all the climbers who intended to summit Everest know the difference between doing and intending to do.
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Im not entirely sure what you believe intend to mean, but if I intend to do something, I know i will do it?
Anyway, the following is a extract from HC comments
37. The reason must therefore be one of the six justifying reasons identified in the Table to s.34. In construing s.34, it cannot be ignored that the time frame of three months within which it is intended to sell is quite short, and in that context a landlord may terminate a tenancy on the grounds of an intended sale only if he has taken some preliminary steps to place a property on the market, as it would not always or perhaps usually be possible for an owner to predict that he or she would make an binding contract for sale within three months of placing the premises on the market. A landlord may not seek to recover possession of premises the subject matter of a Part 4 tenancy merely on account of a general intention on his part to sell the premises, and the intention must be to sell within three months and not merely, for example, to place the property on the market to test the market or to place the property on the market and wait a period of time until the appropriate price is achieved. The intention must be one to enter into a binding contract within three months of the termination of the tenancy, and that intention must exist before a notice of termination can validity be served. That in many cases will involve the requirement that the landlord has identified a potential purchaser, or commenced negotiations towards an eventual sale. Because of the short time frame of three months, it does not seem to me that the Oireachtas intended permitting termination of a Part 4 tenancy merely in anticipation of the commencement of the sale or advertising process. I would not go so far as to say that the intention was that a notice of termination could be served only in the context of an identified sale, but the legislation in my view envisages more that a mere intention to sell, and requires a landlord to have as a matter of fact, and to state, that he intends to bind himself to a sale within three months of termination.
38. Thus, I consider that the operative reason for termination on account of ground 3 in the table to s.34 is not that the landlord intends to sell the premises, but that he intends to bind himself to a contract for sale within three months of termination. There is a difference in emphasis and meaning between the two statements of intent, and that difference is relevant and central to the protection afforded by the legalisation. An intention to sell simpliciter is not sufficient to terminate.
Im sure all the climbers who intended to summit Everest know the difference between doing and intending to do.
To use your own example. Standing at the bottom you state I intend to reach the top that in 24 hrs. It frequently takes 42 hours to climb. (I don't know how long it takes just using a example)
Half way up you state I will reach the top in 12 hrs.
What the hc is saying is don't state somehing you know won't be complied with. The hc generally rules out time travel, so what you know when you sign the declaration can change in the future. It can't be signed if you don't know how long it will take to sell.0 -
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I'd say it depends. If a house was sold as a rental object, why not with tenants? Why the complication of getting rid of perfectly good tenants and then having to go through the whole FBI snoop through their previous landlords, their current job, their bank accounts, asking every agency if they've ever had rent allowance or disputes with other LL's.
Unless the new owners want to live in the house themselves, that's of course different.
And for example if it's an object with multiple units, certainly keep the tenants, it's the above hassle multiplied a million. You'd have to hire a staff of 10 ex gardai to hunt for tiny scraps of dirt (you owned a cat in 1998? Not in my flat, sunshine!)
In Germany you're not even allowed to throw your tenants out just because you're selling. The old rental contract stays valid and you're also not allowed to jack up the rent beyond the legally allowed, which is like 15-20% in 3 years (that's actually more than Ireland now I understand).
If you want to live there you will have to buy the house and then claim Eigenbedarf (need it for your own use).
But the law states that selling up is absolutely no reason to turf out sitting tenants.
This is very useful for multi unit houses and protects tenants rights, but can be difficult if you're selling a house with one flat rented out, but overall it's a good thing.
Ireland has this obsession with turfing tenants out that I don't understand, some LL's on this forum even only giving 6 months contracts (unless I read that wrong). In Germany after 5 years you're only getting started.
But I love the fact that rentals here come unfurnished, people even bring their own kitchen with them! It is normal that they would do up the gaff, painting, tiling, putting down floors.
Its a totally different attitude.
I certainly wouldn't come knocking on their door for a weekly inspection and remind them on that occasion that they're only guests in my house.
It's just an indictment of how fcuked up the attitude to renting is in Ireland, it's almost going out of one's way to make sure a tenant is very acutely aware that he's scum and nothing but an inconvenience and it would be much better if he could pay without actually living in the place.
And the bank rules on selling with tenants are just official confirmation.
Imagine selling a shop and the bank tells you "well first you have to tell all your customers to fcuk off and shop elsewhere and the new owner has to find a completely new customer base, we think that is the most sensible business model".0 -
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