Opinions on Irish identity

FrancieBrady

recedite wrote: »

Some would be in favour of a UI, but its not a given. Most would probably not vote for a UI. That's how I see it now, but over time that could change. Also it depends whats on offer. They will vote to suit themselves, but they are not desperate for a change in sovereignty.

Everyone will vote to suit themselves I would think
Also, as this identity has no public or political voice, I fail to see how any opinion as to how they will vote enmasse is not guesswork

There will never be a poll which is about the weight of numbers
There will be a poll after a lengthy and transparent debate
The idea that there is an appreciable 'hard-core republican' waiting for 51% is as cliched as it is old imo.

Ulsterman96

Majority of the people I know who also identify as Northern Irish, would only vote in favour of a UI if there was a vast majority for it, a vast majority that out way the means of violence, why would we vote to inflict pain upon both sides again, but if there is a great sign of optimism of a united Ireland then Id be all for it. Its not a vote about we owe it to the Nationalists to unite both countries, or we owe to the status quo, when the time comes a vote for a new Ireland wont be about tradition, it will be about what is best for our children, and there children to come, so if voting a in favour means introducing them to a sequel to the troubles, then no. If voting for a new Ireland means shared respect, equality, forgiveness, and friendship, then a yes. But at the minute, respect, equality, forgiveness, and friendship is something that is very lacking between both communities.

Ulsterman96

And I still do not see why there is a problem with people identifying as Northern Irish, yes you can have a strong case that is supports the result of partition, but the partition happened, you can point the finger at Collins, de Valera, or whoever you like, but its not gonna change the hard fact that there has been two governing landscapes on the Island of Ireland, and its coming up to 100 years since the state of Northern Ireland was created, a lot can happen in 100 years, one country went one direction, one went the other, this has created a difference, not just in politics, but in Identity, going to Dublin shouldn't feel like going to another country, crossing the border shouldn't feel like crossing into another frontier, but in peoples minds it does, and it will do even long after a United Ireland, so why not integrate schools, people and communities, in preparation for a the chance of united Ireland. People who scream for a united Ireland scream with the voices of unjust treatment that we owe it to the people who fought for Irelands Independence, but we don't, we owe a hell of a lot more to those innocent people who died, and didn't want to be caught up in this violence, we owe a peaceful future to them. Its time people grew up and realised that we all share this island, things happen, and the only way to deal with it is not by keeping the hatred machine turning, but by opening up and accepting our little differences, and embracing our big similarities.

recedite

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

..when the time comes a vote for a new Ireland wont be about tradition, it will be about what is best for our children, and there children to come, so if voting a in favour means introducing them to a sequel to the troubles, then no. If voting for a new Ireland means shared respect, equality, forgiveness, and friendship, then a yes.

So part of it would be making sure that those from the unionist tradition were pretty much on board with the idea?

I'd imagine that the whole Brexit v EU thing will also come into it, but we'll have to wait a few years to see how that all plays out.

Out of curiosity, what changes (if any) do you think should be made to RoI to make it compatible with a UI?
For example it strikes me that there has been a lot of talk in NI about the status of the Irish language and the "right" of nationalists to have road signage as gaeilge.
But then we have a situation in RoI where it is mandatory for all to learn Irish for the 12-13 long years they are in school, whether they like it or not. That seems more like a trampling on people's rights to me, compared to the the denial of a few alternative road signs.

FrancieBrady

recedite wrote: »

So part of it would be making sure that those from the unionist tradition were pretty much on board with the idea?

I'd imagine that the whole Brexit v EU thing will also come into it, but we'll have to wait a few years to see how that all plays out.

Out of curiosity, what changes (if any) do you think should be made to RoI to make it compatible with a UI?
For example it strikes me that there has been a lot of talk in NI about the status of the Irish language and the "right" of nationalists to have road signage as gaeilge.
But then we have a situation in RoI where it is mandatory for all to learn Irish for the 12-13 long years they are in school, whether they like it or not. That seems more like a trampling on people's rights to me, compared to the the denial of a few alternative road signs.

Why trivialise the Language issue to suit the answer you seem to want to your question.

Is it really all about 'a few alternative roadsigns'?
I just drove past official Fermanagh County Council signage in the roadside in dual language.

recedite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why trivialise the Language issue to suit the answer you seem to want to your question.

I'm just pointing out "it takes two to tango".
Would be interesting to get the NI perspective on how things are in RoI though.

murphaph

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you saying that the NI identity would vote No to a UI?

I reckon a unionist remains a unionist more or less regardless of whether it is his economic interests. A person who identifies as Northern Irish would be open to reasoned persuasion to cede from the UK and join a union with Ireland in some shape or form.

They are the sensible people who will be prepared to move when the time is right but which can prevent chaos by trying to force a UI with a tiny majority in favour (think Brexit!).

FrancieBrady

recedite wrote: »

I'm just pointing out "it takes two to tango".
Would be interesting to get the NI perspective on how things are in RoI though.

That doesn't make any sense, you boiled the Language act issue down to being about a 'few roadsigns'.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why trivialise the Language issue to suit the answer you seem to want to your question.

Is it really all about 'a few alternative roadsigns'?
I just drove past official Fermanagh County Council signage in the roadside in dual language.

Why is a language which died out in the 1950s in Northern Ireland because nobody was bothered to speak it and was artificially revived in the 1970s so important?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it is not about an independent Northern Ireland, I see your identity as pointless tbh.

Did you try saying that to a proud Welshman?

Or a Cornishman?

Or a Cockney?

Are all of these identities pointless?

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

And I still do not see why there is a problem with people identifying as Northern Irish, yes you can have a strong case that is supports the result of partition, but the partition happened, you can point the finger at Collins, de Valera, or whoever you like, but its not gonna change the hard fact that there has been two governing landscapes on the Island of Ireland, and its coming up to 100 years since the state of Northern Ireland was created, a lot can happen in 100 years, one country went one direction, one went the other, this has created a difference, not just in politics, but in Identity, going to Dublin shouldn't feel like going to another country, crossing the border shouldn't feel like crossing into another frontier, but in peoples minds it does, and it will do even long after a United Ireland, so why not integrate schools, people and communities, in preparation for a the chance of united Ireland. People who scream for a united Ireland scream with the voices of unjust treatment that we owe it to the people who fought for Irelands Independence, but we don't, we owe a hell of a lot more to those innocent people who died, and didn't want to be caught up in this violence, we owe a peaceful future to them. Its time people grew up and realised that we all share this island, things happen, and the only way to deal with it is not by keeping the hatred machine turning, but by opening up and accepting our little differences, and embracing our big similarities.

I think this is even more confused tbh.

The debate around a UI is about what is best for the island in the long term.
WHO is screaming that we 'owe it to people who fought for Ireland's Independence'?

If we could keep cliches about 'The Language act', 'diehard republicans waiting with bated breath for there to be 1 more Catholic' and your own cliche of pro UI people, out of the discussion, that would be good.

And it is only since the GFA that a lot of people 'gew up' and realised that we 'all' share this place equally.
The fact is that a few more(the DUP and such) need to do this as well, and as yet you have not addressed how that happens with a so far silent NI identity.
Does this identity only voice itself when all divisions are gone? Is it going to assist in normalising society?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't rude when I am asked my opinion of his identity.

Gay people are gay, full stop.

We are in the 'politics' section. Why would you post asking opinions of your identity in the politics section if it hasn't anything to do about the political aspect of his identity?

Northern Irish people are Northern Irish people, full stop.

That is their label of choosing, so who are you to denigrate it?

Ulsterman96

At the minute, Northern Ireland is still a unionist majority, there is still that element of "protestant country for protestant people" and they have a majority, and to tell a majority, they're now going to be a minority in a new country, that is catered for those of the catholic faith, It would be a big sell, and believe me when I say it, there is people I have come across who would rather die, than shake the hand of a catholic, and vice versa. if a United Ireland came about with 50+1 it would most likely be the troubles repeating itself. 
so I would say for those of the unionist background to integrate well into a new Ireland would need a few things: 
-Security, they need to be able to feel safe and not like they will be attacked constantly by the other side. Unionists are as equally Irish as anyone else (even though some do not wish to admit this ) Irish is not a political construct, or a religious, it is just associated with Catholicism because it is the currently the biggest religion on the island. 
-Tradition: they will never ever give up their tradition, this is a given, look what happened when they took a flag of city hall, now try taking a flag of every street light, pole or wall, you've got one hell of a problem on your hands. 
-Religion, I personally do not agree with religion, both the catholic and protestant churches have done vile things, but it is great to see that the number of people attending is lowering. anyhow, people need to feel that their religion is not going to be effected or taken away from them, no forcing of integration, let people believe what they so wish. 
-Discrimination: there will always be discrimination, but just because they would be a minority, it does not give the majority the right to repeat history and treat them like the catholics were treated in NI, that will only alienate and make martyrs, and making martyrs means creating more violence.
-Representation: because they are a majority going to a minority, something along the line that would make their voice just as loud as Nationalist voice would be nice, maybe the same structure of what we have in NI at the minute, only applied to Irish politics, some form of devolution I believe it is called. Obviously that could be seen as unjust, but the senseless murdering of innocence is also unjust.
The EU has impacted the North already, especially the topic of the hard border, if we get a hard border, thats the vote for a united Ireland brought forward, scarily brought forward too soon. because if you imagine, the referendum was to be held in the next five years, this referendum of those of the nationalist wanted ever since the GFA, and suddenly, it loses even in a time of hardship in NI, how would people react? some of the unionist side would be gloating, and some of the nationalist side would become violent, so I believe the referendum should not be held until there is more peace and integration in the North and a MAJOR strive for unity, not just behind the same old SF line of "this land was taken from us unfairly, give it back, its rightfully ours" UI needs to come around through people seeing it as an investment to better their lives, not just to satisfy those old timers. Cause no offence, its us young ones who will have to deal with the result of a united Ireland, there is no time for violence, bigotry or hatred in a new Ireland, its got to be about making amends, and showing the world, that Ireland isn't just a beautiful landscape, it isn't just a a troubled place, but it is an optimistic, changing landscape of acceptance, moving forward to make its mark on the world and forgetting the leaving the old world behind. 
thats just what I wish to see for my future children if we are united.

cameramonkey

blanch152 wrote: »

Why is a language which died out in the 1950s in Northern Ireland because nobody was bothered to speak it and was artificially revived in the 1970s so important?

If you don't understand why a language is important to a culture or a nation then you need to start reading up on history.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think this is even more confused tbh.

The debate around a UI is about what is best for the island in the long term.
WHO is screaming that we 'owe it to people who fought for Ireland's Independence'?

If we could keep cliches about 'The Language act', 'diehard republicans waiting with bated breath for there to be 1 more Catholic' and your own cliche of pro UI people, out of the discussion, that would be good.

And it is only since the GFA that a lot of people 'gew up' and realised that we 'all' share this place equally.
The fact is that a few more(the DUP and such) need to do this as well, and as yet you have not addressed how that happens with a so far silent NI identity.
Does this identity only voice itself when all divisions are gone? Is it going to assist in normalising society?

I have never read a more confused post than yours. You don't seem to be able to grasp the simple idea of a Northern Irish identity having grown in the 100 years since partition.

Germany was only partitioned for 40 years and East Germany was subject to oppression on a scale not see in Northern Ireland and many East German still struggle nearly 30 years after unification with the concept of a shared identity with their fellow Germans in West Germany.

That 100 years of separation could have led to a separate identity in Northern Ireland is only to be expected. How you cannot understand this is beyond me, it is baffling and can only be because of a determined refusal to leave the bunker and thing outside the box.

blanch152

cameramonkey wrote: »

If you don't understand why a language is important to a culture or a nation then you need to start reading up on history.

The question is if as you say a language is important to a culture or a nation, why did Ulster Irish die out in Northern Ireland in the 1950s?

cameramonkey

blanch152 wrote: »

I have never read a more confused post than yours. You don't seem to be able to grasp the simple idea of a Northern Irish identity having grown in the 100 years since partition.

Germany was only partitioned for 40 years and East Germany was subject to oppression on a scale not see in Northern Ireland and many East German still struggle nearly 30 years after unification with the concept of a shared identity with their fellow Germans in West Germany.

That 100 years of separation could have led to a separate identity in Northern Ireland is only to be expected. How you cannot understand this is beyond me, it is baffling and can only be because of a determined refusal to leave the bunker and thing outside the box.

Comparing Germany and Ireland is simplistic and unhelpful . There is nothing to be gained from such comparisons.

Ulsterman96

I agree that the Irish language is just as important as any other language, even if it is not commonly used in the North, Its a beautiful language, and It saddens me that it is basically dead in the North, but does it justify spending so much money? that is a question for both sides, is it being used as a martyr for a political play by SF? maybe, but I personally believe people have the right to speak and learn any language they so wish without being discriminated against, and the DUP not supporting this language is discrimination in a slight degree.

blanch152

cameramonkey wrote: »

Comparing Germany and Ireland is simplistic and unhelpful . There is nothing to be gained from such comparisons.

Why is it simplistic and unhelpful?

Why is there nothing to be gained from such comparisons?

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

At the minute, Northern Ireland is still a unionist majority, there is still that element of "protestant country for protestant people" and they have a majority, and to tell a majority, they're now going to be a minority in a new country, that is catered for those of the catholic faith, It would be a big sell, and believe me when I say it, there is people I have come across who would rather die, than shake the hand of a catholic, and vice versa. if a United Ireland came about with 50+1 it would most likely be the troubles repeating itself. 
so I would say for those of the unionist background to integrate well into a new Ireland would need a few things: 
-Security, they need to be able to feel safe and not like they will be attacked constantly by the other side. Unionists are as equally Irish as anyone else (even though some do not wish to admit this ) Irish is not a political construct, or a religious, it is just associated with Catholicism because it is the currently the biggest religion on the island. 
-Tradition: they will never ever give up their tradition, this is a given, look what happened when they took a flag of city hall, now try taking a flag of every street light, pole or wall, you've got one hell of a problem on your hands. 
-Religion, I personally do not agree with religion, both the catholic and protestant churches have done vile things, but it is great to see that the number of people attending is lowering. anyhow, people need to feel that their religion is not going to be effected or taken away from them, no forcing of integration, let people believe what they so wish. 
-Discrimination: there will always be discrimination, but just because they would be a minority, it does not give the majority the right to repeat history and treat them like the catholics were treated in NI, that will only alienate and make martyrs, and making martyrs means creating more violence.
-Representation: because they are a majority going to a minority, something along the line that would make their voice just as loud as Nationalist voice would be nice, maybe the same structure of what we have in NI at the minute, only applied to Irish politics, some form of devolution I believe it is called. Obviously that could be seen as unjust, but the senseless murdering of innocence is also unjust.
The EU has impacted the North already, especially the topic of the hard border, if we get a hard border, thats the vote for a united Ireland brought forward, scarily brought forward too soon. because if you imagine, the referendum was to be held in the next five years, this referendum of those of the nationalist wanted ever since the GFA, and suddenly, it loses even in a time of hardship in NI, how would people react? some of the unionist side would be gloating, and some of the nationalist side would become violent, so I believe the referendum should not be held until there is more peace and integration in the North and a MAJOR strive for unity, not just behind the same old SF line of "this land was taken from us unfairly, give it back, its rightfully ours" UI needs to come around through people seeing it as an investment to better their lives, not just to satisfy those old timers. Cause no offence, its us young ones who will have to deal with the result of a united Ireland, there is no time for violence, bigotry or hatred in a new Ireland, its got to be about making amends, and showing the world, that Ireland isn't just a beautiful landscape, it isn't just a a troubled place, but it is an optimistic, changing landscape of acceptance, moving forward to make its mark on the world and forgetting the leaving the old world behind. 
thats just what I wish to see for my future children if we are united.

Everybody recognises the problems you are talking about here - the 'divisions' that I have repeatedly said that need to be addressed.

Again I am asking, how is a Northern Irish identity going to deal with these divisions, or is it going to sit silently back, accept the status quo and hope for some benign intervention to sort them out.


All the time that these divisions exist you will be getting 'older', so the young people stuff is a bit of a red herring.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Everybody recognises the problems you are talking about here - the 'divisions' that I have repeatedly said that need to be addressed.

Again I am asking, how is a Northern Irish identity going to deal with these divisions, or is it going to sit silently back, accept the status quo and hope for some benign intervention to sort them out.


All the time that these divisions exist you will be getting 'older', so the young people stuff is a bit of a red herring.

Because Northern Irish is neither Catholic nor Protestant, it is both and neither.
Because Northern Irish is neither Irish nor British, it is both and neither.
Because Northern Irish is forward-looking, not rooted in past injustice, supremacy, violence or bigotry.
Because Northern Irish is for everyone.

The rise of a Northern Irish identity offers hope for everyone.

Ulsterman96

separation of common people: Northern Ireland can be compared to that Korea, and even east and west Germany, it may be pushing it, but there is parallels to be drawn. Why is a catholic lad coming together with a protestant lad to create something new from the situation they were born into deemed such a bad thing? do you's strive for a united Ireland, isn't a boy from a nationalist area, and a boy from a unionist area, both never have met in their life, but somehow decided Im Northern Irish, isn't that a sign of unity? isn't that a United Ireland should look like, or is a united Ireland only a united Ireland for the Irish?

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

separation of common people: Northern Ireland can be compared to that Korea, and even east and west Germany, it may be pushing it, but there is parallels to be drawn. Why is a catholic lad coming together with a protestant lad to create something new from the situation they were born into deemed such a bad thing? do you's strive for a united Ireland, isn't a boy from a nationalist area, and a boy from a unionist area, both never have met in their life, but somehow decided Im Northern Irish, isn't that a sign of unity? isn't that a United Ireland should look like, or is a united Ireland only a united Ireland for the Irish?

Is that in answer to this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105039078&postcount=321 ?

Everybody recognises the problems you are talking about here - the 'divisions' that I have repeatedly said that need to be addressed.

Again I am asking, how is a Northern Irish identity going to deal with these divisions, or is it going to sit silently back, accept the status quo and hope for some benign intervention to sort them out.


All the time that these divisions exist you will be getting 'older', so the young people stuff is a bit of a red herring.

murphaph

blanch152 wrote: »

I have never read a more confused post than yours. You don't seem to be able to grasp the simple idea of a Northern Irish identity having grown in the 100 years since partition.

Germany was only partitioned for 40 years and East Germany was subject to oppression on a scale not see in Northern Ireland and many East German still struggle nearly 30 years after unification with the concept of a shared identity with their fellow Germans in West Germany.

That 100 years of separation could have led to a separate identity in Northern Ireland is only to be expected. How you cannot understand this is beyond me, it is baffling and can only be because of a determined refusal to leave the bunker and thing outside the box.

Excellent analogy. I almost forgot it and I live in the former GDR! There is even to this day a distinct identity in the East. It's slowly fading away but at unity it was very vivid. On both sides everyone was German, but with clearly different identities.

FrancieBrady

murphaph wrote: »

Excellent analogy. I almost forgot it and I live in the former GDR! There is even to this day a distinct identity in the East. It's slowly fading away but at unity it was very vivid. On both sides everyone was German, but with clearly different identities.

I am not sure what you guys problem is here, with the greatest of respect.

I have no doubt a Northern Irish identity exists.
The OP asked for opinions on it.

I have never encountered a person who identifies solely as Northern Irish in person despite knowing hundreds of people from both traditions who live there.

Please stop interpreting questions about this identity as attempts to dismiss it's existence.

cameramonkey

blanch152 wrote: »

The question is if as you say a language is important to a culture or a nation, why did Ulster Irish die out in Northern Ireland in the 1950s?

The Irish language was a language that for years was actively discouraged by the UK government. The introduction of a primary education system in which Irish was prohibited until 1871 English was only taught in schools by order of the UK . The famine also hit the Language disproportionately because of the high number of Irish speakers in areas worst hit. Once a language reaches a critically low level then it is virtually impossible to recover, this was the situation in the north of Ireland in the 20th century.

So persecution, lack of education through Irish and UK government policy to the destroy the language undoubtedly saw to the language in the north of Ireland.

cameramonkey

Having a bit of a think about this supposedly new Northern Irish identity , its actually not really that new or am I confusing it with this Northern Irish identity?



How does the new NI identity differ from the above photo and their NI identity?

Ulsterman96

cameramonkey wrote: »

Having a bit of a think about this supposedly new Northern Irish identity , its actually not really that new or am I confusing it  with this Northern Irish identity?



How does the new NI identity differ from the above photo and their NI identity?

what is exactly wrong with this picture? yes I admit the team is not inclusive and welcoming to those of a catholic background, but compare the number of Northern Irish football club fans to the number of catholics who identify as Northern Irish. These are majority lads from a strictly unionist background living and born in Northern Ireland, celebrating their international team, so how does this differ from being proud of being from Ireland and supporting the Republic of Ireland? yeah maybe theres more hatred within the crowd, but still, not everyone in Northern Ireland like football or follow it

Ulsterman96

cameramonkey wrote: »

Having a bit of a think about this supposedly new Northern Irish identity , its actually not really that new or am I confusing it  with this Northern Irish identity?



How does the new NI identity differ from the above photo and their NI identity?

what is exactly wrong with this picture? yes I admit the team is not inclusive and welcoming to those of a catholic background, but compare the number of Northern Irish football club fans to the number of catholics who identify as Northern Irish. These are majority lads from a strictly unionist background living and born in Northern Ireland, celebrating their international team, so how does this differ from being proud of being from Ireland and supporting the Republic of Ireland? yeah maybe theres more hatred within the crowd, but still, not everyone in Northern Ireland like football or follow it

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

what is exactly wrong with this picture? yes I admit the team is not inclusive and welcoming to those of a catholic background, but compare the number of Northern Irish football club fans to the number of catholics who identify as Northern Irish. These are majority lads from a strictly unionist background living and born in Northern Ireland, celebrating their international team, so how does this differ from being proud of being from Ireland and supporting the Republic of Ireland? yeah maybe theres more hatred within the crowd, but still, not everyone in Northern Ireland like football or follow it

More confusion.
This was claimed earlier in the thread,

blanch152 wrote:

And yes, they are not British, they are not Irish, they do not support the IRA, they accept the current constitutional position and they follow the Northern Irish soccer team.

are you now saying that is wrong?

cameramonkey

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

what is exactly wrong with this picture? yes I admit the team is not inclusive and welcoming to those of a catholic background, but compare the number of Northern Irish football club fans to the number of catholics who identify as Northern Irish. These are majority lads from a strictly unionist background living and born in Northern Ireland, celebrating their international team, so how does this differ from being proud of being from Ireland and supporting the Republic of Ireland? yeah maybe theres more hatred within the crowd, but still, not everyone in Northern Ireland like football or follow it

I didnt say there was anything wrong with the picture, they have a right to support any team they want and from my point of view they are pretty open about who they are, they are Loyalist and proud of their Northern Irish identity which I would suggest would exclude most people not from a Unionist background.

All I asked was how this NI identify is different from what you advocate?

Ulsterman96

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

what is exactly wrong with this picture? yes I admit the team is not inclusive and welcoming to those of a catholic background, but compare the number of Northern Irish football club fans to the number of catholics who identify as Northern Irish. These are majority lads from a strictly unionist background living and born in Northern Ireland, celebrating their international team, so how does this differ from being proud of being from Ireland and supporting the Republic of Ireland? yeah maybe theres more hatred within the crowd, but still, not everyone in Northern Ireland like football or follow it

More confusion.
This was claimed earlier in the thread,

blanch152 wrote:

And yes, they are not British, they are not Irish, they do not support the IRA, they accept the current constitutional position and they follow the Northern Irish soccer team.

are you now saying that is wrong?

Not everyone who identifies as Northern Irish support the Northern Ireland football team, they might not even support Ireland rugby or even anything, I can only give you my opinion as being Northern Irish, but I know of Northern Irish people who support both teams, and are proud both are in the play offs right now

Ulsterman96

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

what is exactly wrong with this picture? yes I admit the team is not inclusive and welcoming to those of a catholic background, but compare the number of Northern Irish football club fans to the number of catholics who identify as Northern Irish. These are majority lads from a strictly unionist background living and born in Northern Ireland, celebrating their international team, so how does this differ from being proud of being from Ireland and supporting the Republic of Ireland? yeah maybe theres more hatred within the crowd, but still, not everyone in Northern Ireland like football or follow it

More confusion.
This was claimed earlier in the thread,

blanch152 wrote:

And yes, they are not British, they are not Irish, they do not support the IRA, they accept the current constitutional position and they follow the Northern Irish soccer team.

are you now saying that is wrong?

Not everyone who identifies as Northern Irish support the Northern Ireland football team, they might not even support Ireland rugby or even anything, I can only give you my opinion as being Northern Irish, but I know of Northern Irish people who support both teams, and are proud both are in the play offs right now

Ulsterman96

I am leaving this here before I head out: this is how I feel having been born at the beginning of the peace process, like many others, it might give the people who are doubtful of why or how someone decides they're Northern Irish. 
 
-Partition and Independence happened.
 
-Northern Irelands was created; the Republic of Ireland was also created. 
 
-One has a catholic majority; one has a slight protestant majority.
 
-In Northern Ireland people Identify as British, Irish, both or Northern Irish. 
 
-People still hate each other in Northern Ireland
 
-Catholics kill Protestants and Protestants kill Catholics. 
 
-Catholics were miss treated in Northern Ireland, that is a fact, and they rightfully deserved equality. 
 
-We still have segregation in Northern Ireland
 
-There is 109 walls that were erected to keep both people, who look the same, talk the same, dress the same, eat the same food, born on the same piece of land, yet from a young age they're raised to hate that of which is only identifiable through deep interrogation of "what school did you go to?" "what street you from?" "what football team do you support?" "does your ma keep the toaster in the cupboard on on the counter?" "how do you pronounce the letter H?"" its idiotic. 
 
-A lot of people believe a United Ireland isn't worth the blood shed, not worth it one bit, a single humans life of is more important than six counties. A lot of people have and would happily kill to keep Northern Ireland part of the UK and a lot of people have and would happily kill to make NI part of a new Ireland, both are not worth the pain they inflict. 
-Politics, only some politicians care about the people represent, same in any country or political structure in history.
 
-Both countries have major problems, both people have major problems.
 
-Getting into taxis were the drivers talk and boost about killing catholics or protestants is normal. 
 
-Burning flags in the street is normal
 
-getting out of school, work or college due to bomb scares is seen as a good thing. 
 
-having a mental map in your head of where to go and where
not to go if you value your life, is normal. 
 
-Police turning a blind eye on crime due to not having to deal with the old "but what about themuns, bet if it was catholic, caught selling illegal drugs out in the open, you wouldn't be arresting them" and vice versa
 
-Racism, is normal. 
 
-Anti-gay, is normal. 
 
-Bigotry, is normal. 
 
-Hared is normal.
 
Personally why I identify as Northern Irish:
 
- I don’t want to be under the banner of each, I love and I respect both cultures and both histories, I love my British family and my Irish family, but I am not picking one over the other.
 
- Northern Ireland is my country, its the place I was born, Belfast is my capital city. I love my hometown of Belfast, I love the people of my hometown, they have been through a lot, the troubles effected the whole island of Ireland, but it had a greater impact the hearts and minds of the people of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone, and I admire the hell out of those who did not confirm to the same old story of Us and Them. 
 
- Yes, my patriotism is the result of partition, I am also partly genetically the result of the plantation of Ireland, but my existence is also the result of two sides not conforming to what both of their backgrounds deem to be the right way. 
 
- I look and I sound Irish, but I do not feel Irish like a man from Cork or Dublin, I do not feel British like a man from the Shankill Road. 
 
- I am proud of both histories, I am proud to British and proud of the young men who gave their lives in both World Wars, I am also proud to be Irish, and proud of how great Ireland has become since independence, and how they defied any doubt that the people had about them making it own their own. 
 
-      I am not religious, I just have morals, I treat others with respect, and expect respect to be given in return. 
 
- I am optimistic that there will be a bright future for the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that in time people will be able to reach out their hands from both sides of the divide and appreciate both cultures and show mutual respect for the people around them. I know there will always be hatred, there has even been signs of what seems to be some underlying hatred that my somewhat unusual upbringing and stance because it does not align with their views. But I will end this by saying, stating and summarizing, that the Northern Irish identity is here, Northern Ireland exists, bigotry, anti Irish and anti British sentiments are still expressed here, history is in the past, there it is no longer a green VS orange here in the north, people have made and are making peace, catholic lads marry protestant girls, protestant and catholic lads go out for pints, they co exist together, and will continue to do so, and the only thing that can threaten that is the old bigotry of both sides, that has no place in this island or place on this earth, it only has a place in violent history. And if people want to identify as Northern Irish and be proud of their backgrounds, and be proud of living in Northern Ireland, then they shall, they’re not wasting their time pointing fingers, and calling names, they’re not being spiteful to someone just because of where they’re from, they’re not discriminating over silly reasons. And I for one see it as good thing that people have created a new identity separate but similar to that of the Irish and British identity, and In time who is to say that they wont be the ones to bring peace and unity, cause after all, even the tricolor is a symbol of what these people are doing, making peace between the ­green and orange.
 
Also a great watch for those wanting to know more statistics of the identity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_RiIx-PSpw&t=377s

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

I am leaving this here before I head out: this is how I feel having been born at the beginning of the peace process, like many others, it might give the people who are doubtful of why or how someone decides they're Northern Irish. 
 
-Partition and Independence happened.
 
-Northern Irelands was created; the Republic of Ireland was also created. 
 
-One has a catholic majority; one has a slight protestant majority.
 
-In Northern Ireland people Identify as British, Irish, both or Northern Irish. 
 
-People still hate each other in Northern Ireland
 
-Catholics kill Protestants and Protestants kill Catholics. 
 
-Catholics were miss treated in Northern Ireland, that is a fact, and they rightfully deserved equality. 
 
-We still have segregation in Northern Ireland
 
-There is 109 walls that were erected to keep both people, who look the same, talk the same, dress the same, eat the same food, born on the same piece of land, yet from a young age they're raised to hate that of which is only identifiable through deep interrogation of "what school did you go to?" "what street you from?" "what football team do you support?" "does your ma keep the toaster in the cupboard on on the counter?" "how do you pronounce the letter H?"" its idiotic. 
 
-A lot of people believe a United Ireland isn't worth the blood shed, not worth it one bit, a single humans life of is more important than six counties. A lot of people have and would happily kill to keep Northern Ireland part of the UK and a lot of people have and would happily kill to make NI part of a new Ireland, both are not worth the pain they inflict. 
-Politics, only some politicians care about the people represent, same in any country or political structure in history.
 
-Both countries have major problems, both people have major problems.
 
-Getting into taxis were the drivers talk and boost about killing catholics or protestants is normal. 
 
-Burning flags in the street is normal
 
-getting out of school, work or college due to bomb scares is seen as a good thing. 
 
-having a mental map in your head of where to go and where
not to go if you value your life, is normal. 
 
-Police turning a blind eye on crime due to not having to deal with the old "but what about themuns, bet if it was catholic, caught selling illegal drugs out in the open, you wouldn't be arresting them" and vice versa
 
-Racism, is normal. 
 
-Anti-gay, is normal. 
 
-Bigotry, is normal. 
 
-Hared is normal.
 
Personally why I identify as Northern Irish:
 
- I don’t want to be under the banner of each, I love and I respect both cultures and both histories, I love my British family and my Irish family, but I am not picking one over the other.
 
- Northern Ireland is my country, its the place I was born, Belfast is my capital city. I love my hometown of Belfast, I love the people of my hometown, they have been through a lot, the troubles effected the whole island of Ireland, but it had a greater impact the hearts and minds of the people of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone, and I admire the hell out of those who did not confirm to the same old story of Us and Them. 
 
- Yes, my patriotism is the result of partition, I am also partly genetically the result of the plantation of Ireland, but my existence is also the result of two sides not conforming to what both of their backgrounds deem to be the right way. 
 
- I look and I sound Irish, but I do not feel Irish like a man from Cork or Dublin, I do not feel British like a man from the Shankill Road. 
 
- I am proud of both histories, I am proud to British and proud of the young men who gave their lives in both World Wars, I am also proud to be Irish, and proud of how great Ireland has become since independence, and how they defied any doubt that the people had about them making it own their own. 
 
-      I am not religious, I just have morals, I treat others with respect, and expect respect to be given in return. 
 
- I am optimistic that there will be a bright future for the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that in time people will be able to reach out their hands from both sides of the divide and appreciate both cultures and show mutual respect for the people around them. I know there will always be hatred, there has even been signs of what seems to be some underlying hatred that my somewhat unusual upbringing and stance because it does not align with their views. But I will end this by saying, stating and summarizing, that the Northern Irish identity is here, Northern Ireland exists, bigotry, anti Irish and anti British sentiments are still expressed here, history is in the past, there it is no longer a green VS orange here in the north, people have made and are making peace, catholic lads marry protestant girls, protestant and catholic lads go out for pints, they co exist together, and will continue to do so, and the only thing that can threaten that is the old bigotry of both sides, that has no place in this island or place on this earth, it only has a place in violent history. And if people want to identify as Northern Irish and be proud of their backgrounds, and be proud of living in Northern Ireland, then they shall, they’re not wasting their time pointing fingers, and calling names, they’re not being spiteful to someone just because of where they’re from, they’re not discriminating over silly reasons. And I for one see it as good thing that people have created a new identity separate but similar to that of the Irish and British identity, and In time who is to say that they wont be the ones to bring peace and unity, cause after all, even the tricolor is a symbol of what these people are doing, making peace between the ­green and orange.
 
Also a great watch for those wanting to know more statistics of the identity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_RiIx-PSpw&t=377s

Long on identifying the 'divisions' (if a little too much attention to religion) that everyone knows exists and short on doing anything concrete about them bar wait around for some curious Paulian conversions imo.

Ulsterman96

Also, again, I am highly appreciative of the feedback Ive been given on this thread, I always wanted to know how people feel about people identifying as Northern Irish, seems mostly positive, and of course people with doubt, I myself have even doubted it, but what it represents to me and others, out weighs that doubt, and I just want to state that, even though Ireland has had a horrible history, we are all its people, either we are black, white, hispanic, lewish, catholic, protestant, Irish, British, Northern Irish, or whatever we may be, I believe we can all agree that we were lucky to have been born on such a beautiful island with a vast history of greatness, and a future that has more to offer.

mfceiling

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

I am leaving this here before I head out: this is how I feel having been born at the beginning of the peace process, like many others, it might give the people who are doubtful of why or how someone decides they're Northern Irish. 
 
-Partition and Independence happened.
 
-Northern Irelands was created; the Republic of Ireland was also created. 
 
-One has a catholic majority; one has a slight protestant majority.
 
-In Northern Ireland people Identify as British, Irish, both or Northern Irish. 
 
-People still hate each other in Northern Ireland
 
-Catholics kill Protestants and Protestants kill Catholics. 
 
-Catholics were miss treated in Northern Ireland, that is a fact, and they rightfully deserved equality. 
 
-We still have segregation in Northern Ireland
 
-There is 109 walls that were erected to keep both people, who look the same, talk the same, dress the same, eat the same food, born on the same piece of land, yet from a young age they're raised to hate that of which is only identifiable through deep interrogation of "what school did you go to?" "what street you from?" "what football team do you support?" "does your ma keep the toaster in the cupboard on on the counter?" "how do you pronounce the letter H?"" its idiotic. 
 
-A lot of people believe a United Ireland isn't worth the blood shed, not worth it one bit, a single humans life of is more important than six counties. A lot of people have and would happily kill to keep Northern Ireland part of the UK and a lot of people have and would happily kill to make NI part of a new Ireland, both are not worth the pain they inflict. 
-Politics, only some politicians care about the people represent, same in any country or political structure in history.
 
-Both countries have major problems, both people have major problems.
 
-Getting into taxis were the drivers talk and boost about killing catholics or protestants is normal. 
 
-Burning flags in the street is normal
 
-getting out of school, work or college due to bomb scares is seen as a good thing. 
 
-having a mental map in your head of where to go and where
not to go if you value your life, is normal. 
 
-Police turning a blind eye on crime due to not having to deal with the old "but what about themuns, bet if it was catholic, caught selling illegal drugs out in the open, you wouldn't be arresting them" and vice versa
 
-Racism, is normal. 
 
-Anti-gay, is normal. 
 
-Bigotry, is normal. 
 
-Hared is normal.
 
Personally why I identify as Northern Irish:
 
- I don’t want to be under the banner of each, I love and I respect both cultures and both histories, I love my British family and my Irish family, but I am not picking one over the other.
 
- Northern Ireland is my country, its the place I was born, Belfast is my capital city. I love my hometown of Belfast, I love the people of my hometown, they have been through a lot, the troubles effected the whole island of Ireland, but it had a greater impact the hearts and minds of the people of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone, and I admire the hell out of those who did not confirm to the same old story of Us and Them. 
 
- Yes, my patriotism is the result of partition, I am also partly genetically the result of the plantation of Ireland, but my existence is also the result of two sides not conforming to what both of their backgrounds deem to be the right way. 
 
- I look and I sound Irish, but I do not feel Irish like a man from Cork or Dublin, I do not feel British like a man from the Shankill Road. 
 
- I am proud of both histories, I am proud to British and proud of the young men who gave their lives in both World Wars, I am also proud to be Irish, and proud of how great Ireland has become since independence, and how they defied any doubt that the people had about them making it own their own. 
 
-      I am not religious, I just have morals, I treat others with respect, and expect respect to be given in return. 
 
- I am optimistic that there will be a bright future for the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that in time people will be able to reach out their hands from both sides of the divide and appreciate both cultures and show mutual respect for the people around them. I know there will always be hatred, there has even been signs of what seems to be some underlying hatred that my somewhat unusual upbringing and stance because it does not align with their views. But I will end this by saying, stating and summarizing, that the Northern Irish identity is here, Northern Ireland exists, bigotry, anti Irish and anti British sentiments are still expressed here, history is in the past, there it is no longer a green VS orange here in the north, people have made and are making peace, catholic lads marry protestant girls, protestant and catholic lads go out for pints, they co exist together, and will continue to do so, and the only thing that can threaten that is the old bigotry of both sides, that has no place in this island or place on this earth, it only has a place in violent history. And if people want to identify as Northern Irish and be proud of their backgrounds, and be proud of living in Northern Ireland, then they shall, they’re not wasting their time pointing fingers, and calling names, they’re not being spiteful to someone just because of where they’re from, they’re not discriminating over silly reasons. And I for one see it as good thing that people have created a new identity separate but similar to that of the Irish and British identity, and In time who is to say that they wont be the ones to bring peace and unity, cause after all, even the tricolor is a symbol of what these people are doing, making peace between the ­green and orange.
 
Also a great watch for those wanting to know more statistics of the identity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_RiIx-PSpw&t=377s

That's a fantastic post Ulsterman and sums up my feelings entirely.

My parents are mixed religion...almost unheard of in the early 70's. I harbour no hatred to either side.

I'm proud to call myself Northern Irish....not interested in Catholic or Protestant.

Funny how someone can tell you that being "Northern Irish" doesn't exist but would tell you that being from Northern Ireland then you must be Irish or British.

Ulsterman96

mfceiling wrote: »

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

I am leaving this here before I head out: this is how I feel having been born at the beginning of the peace process, like many others, it might give the people who are doubtful of why or how someone decides they're Northern Irish. 
 
-Partition and Independence happened.
 
-Northern Irelands was created; the Republic of Ireland was also created. 
 
-One has a catholic majority; one has a slight protestant majority.
 
-In Northern Ireland people Identify as British, Irish, both or Northern Irish. 
 
-People still hate each other in Northern Ireland
 
-Catholics kill Protestants and Protestants kill Catholics. 
 
-Catholics were miss treated in Northern Ireland, that is a fact, and they rightfully deserved equality. 
 
-We still have segregation in Northern Ireland
 
-There is 109 walls that were erected to keep both people, who look the same, talk the same, dress the same, eat the same food, born on the same piece of land, yet from a young age they're raised to hate that of which is only identifiable through deep interrogation of "what school did you go to?" "what street you from?" "what football team do you support?" "does your ma keep the toaster in the cupboard on on the counter?" "how do you pronounce the letter H?"" its idiotic. 
 
-A lot of people believe a United Ireland isn't worth the blood shed, not worth it one bit, a single humans life of is more important than six counties. A lot of people have and would happily kill to keep Northern Ireland part of the UK and a lot of people have and would happily kill to make NI part of a new Ireland, both are not worth the pain they inflict. 
-Politics, only some politicians care about the people represent, same in any country or political structure in history.
 
-Both countries have major problems, both people have major problems.
 
-Getting into taxis were the drivers talk and boost about killing catholics or protestants is normal. 
 
-Burning flags in the street is normal
 
-getting out of school, work or college due to bomb scares is seen as a good thing. 
 
-having a mental map in your head of where to go and where
not to go if you value your life, is normal. 
 
-Police turning a blind eye on crime due to not having to deal with the old "but what about themuns, bet if it was catholic, caught selling illegal drugs out in the open, you wouldn't be arresting them" and vice versa
 
-Racism, is normal. 
 
-Anti-gay, is normal. 
 
-Bigotry, is normal. 
 
-Hared is normal.
 
Personally why I identify as Northern Irish:
 
- I don’t want to be under the banner of each, I love and I respect both cultures and both histories, I love my British family and my Irish family, but I am not picking one over the other.
 
- Northern Ireland is my country, its the place I was born, Belfast is my capital city. I love my hometown of Belfast, I love the people of my hometown, they have been through a lot, the troubles effected the whole island of Ireland, but it had a greater impact the hearts and minds of the people of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone, and I admire the hell out of those who did not confirm to the same old story of Us and Them. 
 
- Yes, my patriotism is the result of partition, I am also partly genetically the result of the plantation of Ireland, but my existence is also the result of two sides not conforming to what both of their backgrounds deem to be the right way. 
 
- I look and I sound Irish, but I do not feel Irish like a man from Cork or Dublin, I do not feel British like a man from the Shankill Road. 
 
- I am proud of both histories, I am proud to British and proud of the young men who gave their lives in both World Wars, I am also proud to be Irish, and proud of how great Ireland has become since independence, and how they defied any doubt that the people had about them making it own their own. 
 
-      I am not religious, I just have morals, I treat others with respect, and expect respect to be given in return. 
 
- I am optimistic that there will be a bright future for the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that in time people will be able to reach out their hands from both sides of the divide and appreciate both cultures and show mutual respect for the people around them. I know there will always be hatred, there has even been signs of what seems to be some underlying hatred that my somewhat unusual upbringing and stance because it does not align with their views. But I will end this by saying, stating and summarizing, that the Northern Irish identity is here, Northern Ireland exists, bigotry, anti Irish and anti British sentiments are still expressed here, history is in the past, there it is no longer a green VS orange here in the north, people have made and are making peace, catholic lads marry protestant girls, protestant and catholic lads go out for pints, they co exist together, and will continue to do so, and the only thing that can threaten that is the old bigotry of both sides, that has no place in this island or place on this earth, it only has a place in violent history. And if people want to identify as Northern Irish and be proud of their backgrounds, and be proud of living in Northern Ireland, then they shall, they’re not wasting their time pointing fingers, and calling names, they’re not being spiteful to someone just because of where they’re from, they’re not discriminating over silly reasons. And I for one see it as good thing that people have created a new identity separate but similar to that of the Irish and British identity, and In time who is to say that they wont be the ones to bring peace and unity, cause after all, even the tricolor is a symbol of what these people are doing, making peace between the ­green and orange.
 
Also a great watch for those wanting to know more statistics of the identity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_RiIx-PSpw&t=377s

That's a fantastic post Ulsterman and sums up my feelings entirely.

My parents are mixed religion...almost unheard of in the early 70's. I harbour no hatred to either side.

I'm proud to call myself Northern Irish....not interested in Catholic or Protestant.

Funny how someone can tell you that being "Northern Irish" doesn't exist but would tell you that being from Northern Ireland then you must be Irish or British.

There is loads of people in our situation, its just a shame that both sides disregard the fact that there is people who feel they don't belong to either, or any cause, except their own cause to better their life and the lives of those around them, your parents are a testament of peace, and they have my upmost respect

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

There is loads of people in our situation, its just a shame that both sides disregard the fact that there is people who feel they don't belong to either, or any cause, except their own cause to better their life and the lives of those around them, your parents are a testament of peace, and they have my upmost respect

You have listed a long list of divisions and problems. How do Northern Irish identities do the bit in bold?

I have asked a few times now.

murphaph

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have listed a long list of divisions and problems. How do Northern Irish identities do the bit in bold?

I have asked a few times now.

If everyone in NI was like our NI friends on the thread here there would be no division!

FrancieBrady

murphaph wrote: »

If everyone in NI was like our NI friends on the thread here there would be no division!

Exactly. That Nirvana doesn't exist though, does it.

Ulsterman96

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

There is loads of people in our situation, its just a shame that both sides disregard the fact that there is people who feel they don't belong to either, or any cause, except their own cause to better their life and the lives of those around them, your parents are a testament of peace, and they have my upmost respect

You have listed a long list of divisions and problems. How do Northern Irish identities do the bit in bold?

I have asked a few times now.

Because Northern Irish identity is not exclusive to those of protestant or catholic faith, it is not exclusive to that of unionist or nationalist background. In the statistics, a hardcore loyalist is not going to say he is Northern Irish, a hardcore republican is not going to say he is Northern Irish. but those who between the division, they mostly identify Northern Irish and would only vote for a United Ireland only if it bettered their lives or the lives of others around them, whilst someone who is souly Irish would most likely vote for a united Ireland because they're Irish and someone who considers themselves only British would vote against it to keep NI part of the UK. Whilst those who identify as Northern Irish tend to be a mixed bag, its really that simple. and I mention the divisions cause they're still important and relevant, I mention them to show those of which never grew up in Belfast or the north during the peace process, I wrote the divisions so they can get a clear understanding of what its like of a young person born into it I.e me, so they can maybe see my perspective.

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

Because Northern Irish identity is not exclusive to those of protestant or catholic faith, it is not exclusive to that of unionist or nationalist background. In the statistics, a hardcore loyalist is not going to say he is Northern Irish, a hardcore republican is not going to say he is Northern Irish. but those who between the division, they mostly identify Northern Irish and would only vote for a United Ireland only if it bettered their lives or the lives of others around them, whilst someone who is souly Irish would most likely vote for a united Ireland because they're Irish and someone who considers themselves only British would vote against it to keep NI part of the UK. Whilst those who identify as Northern Irish tend to be a mixed bag, its really that simple. and I mention the divisions cause they're still important and relevant, I mention them to show those of which never grew up in Belfast or the north during the peace process, I wrote the divisions so they can get a clear understanding of what its like of a young person born into it I.e me, so they can maybe see my perspective.

Never mind a UI for a minute.

I'll ask again: How does a Northern Irish identity holder propose to fix the divisions in northern Ireland?

Ulsterman96

We are not going to fix what is unfixable, the divisions has always been there, they always will, but if people from both sides have one thing they can both share and be under, then it will ease it. An example I will use, Belfast punk rock scene in the 70s, young kids throwing rocks at each side of the community, then young kids going to bars together, writing music together, having fun together under one glorious moment, not as catholics, not as protestant, but as Punks. Silly example, but theres no reason Northern Irish cant represent that either. so to state again, those divisions, have been in ireland for centuries, even before the plantation, clans fought clans, and it will remain into the future, theres no such thing as true nirvana or peace, but why should it always be the same old story. 

[font=Verdana, Arial]"Well it's lasted for so long now[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]And so many have died[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]It's such a part of my own life[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]Yet it leaves me mystified[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]How a people so intelligent[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]Friendly, kind and brave[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]Can throw themselves so willingly[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial]Into an open grave"[/font]

Each Dollar a Bullet- Stiff Little Fingers, give it a listen

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

Each Dollar a Bullet- Stiff Little Fingers, give it a listen

What?

Ulsterman96

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ulsterman96 wrote: »

Each Dollar a Bullet- Stiff Little Fingers, give it a listen

What?

Ive no idea why my previous response to you made a box around what I wrote as I was not quoting anything I post previously: so I will say again in response to your: 
Never mind a UI for a minute. 
I'll ask again: How does a Northern Irish identity holder propose to fix the divisions in northern Ireland?" 
My response: 
We are not going to fix what is unfixable, the divisions has always been there, they always will, but if people from both sides have one thing they can both share and be under, then it will ease it. An example I will use, Belfast punk rock scene in the 70s, young kids throwing rocks at each side of the community, then young kids going to bars together, writing music together, having fun together under one glorious moment, not as catholics, not as protestant, but as Punks. Silly example, but theres no reason Northern Irish cant represent that either. so to state again, those divisions, have been in ireland for centuries, even before the plantation, clans fought clans, and it will remain into the future, theres no such thing as true nirvana or peace, but why should it always be the same old story. 

"Well it's lasted for so long now
And so many have died
It's such a part of my own life
Yet it leaves me mystified
How a people so intelligent
Friendly, kind and brave
Can throw themselves so willingly
Into an open grave"
I also suggested listening to Each Dollar a Bullet - Stiff Littler Fingers as its thought provoking and can somewhat summarise the opinions of those in the middle of the conflict

murphaph

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Exactly. That Nirvana doesn't exist though, does it.

The more people that adopt this identity the better NI becomes. You keep asking what people like the OP are "doing" to change things in NI. Just being who they are and not a sectarian asshole is making the world a better place.

FrancieBrady

Ulsterman96 wrote:

We are not going to fix what is unfixable, the divisions has always been there, they always will,

Ok.
That is an answer. Thanks.

I am glad as an Irish identity, that there are those who believe that things can be fixed and who have worked at it for most of their lives.
We wouldn't have gotten this far without them. You say you were born at the start of the peace process, I was born at the start of the 1960's and I have seen change beyond recognition. No reason that cannot continue.

oscarBravo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'll ask again: How does a Northern Irish identity holder propose to fix the divisions in northern Ireland?

You keep demanding an answer to this question, but your consistent answer to the same question is a united Ireland. In other words, you want to heal the divisions by having your side "win".

In other words, as I've said before, "let's compromise and do it my way".

Objectively, can you really argue that promoting one side in a conflict is a better approach to conflict resolution than promoting neither?

Ulsterman96

If anyone wishes to learn further about the emergence of the Northern Irish identity, this is really spot on: 
Understanding the Northern Irish Identity: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_RiIx-PSpw&t=973s