Are schools closing TUESDAY!?***Update Answer= Yes***

evolving_doors

If it had been left up to individual schools to decide there would have been discrepancies between local schools, maybe someone injured , parents taking unnecessary risks to offload the kids ... ripe conditions for a Joe Duffayyy %€£¥ storm.
Could you be listening to that tripe, and all the teacher bashing that comes with it.

acequion

Powerhouse wrote: »

I don't think any teacher should be sailing this close to the wind to be honest. Things happen, you get sick, students get sick (very easily in many cases), students go off on trips, sport disrupts class. Three classes is surely manageable in the grand scheme of things?

It most certainly is not "sailing close to the wind." Like so many of our public services, window dressing is the most important on the part of the policy and programme makers and let the front liners pick up the slack. You are obviously not an English teacher and do not realise the sheer and actually excessive volume of work that needs covering in the allotted time. A volume of work that is hugely disproportionate to my other subject French and indeed many other subjects.

So even with English teachers [such as myself] almost never being sick there is still pressure to cover the course in the kind of detail necessary for students seeking the H1s and H2s. And actually I have always been one to object to arbitrary disruption to tuition such as trips and events, because again it's the poor old mutt of a teacher that still has to get the course covered.

Obviously a day like yesterday was unavoidable and safety was the first priority. But today, here in the south west, is beautiful. And we are all just hanging around!!

evolving_doors

acequion wrote: »

It most certainly is not "sailing close to the wind." Like so many of our public services, window dressing is the most important on the part of the policy and programme makers and let the front liners pick up the slack. You are obviously not an English teacher and do not realise the sheer and actually excessive volume of work that needs covering in the allotted time. A volume of work that is hugely disproportionate to my other subject French and indeed many other subjects.

So even with English teachers [such as myself] almost never being sick there is still pressure to cover the course in the kind of detail necessary for students seeking the H1s and H2s. And actually I have always been one to object to arbitrary disruption to tuition such as trips and events, because again it's the poor old mutt of a teacher that still has to get the course covered.

Obviously a day like yesterday was unavoidable and safety was the first priority. But today, here in the south west, is beautiful. And we are all just hanging around!!

Are all the roads clear with overhanging trees assessed, power and running water restored?

r93kaey5p2izun

Powerhouse wrote: »

I don't think any teacher should be sailing this close to the wind to be honest. Things happen, you get sick, students get sick (very easily in many cases), students go off on trips, sport disrupts class. Three classes is surely manageable in the grand scheme of things?

This is a very idealistic view - to me it seems out of touch with reality. Try teaching LC HL maths in a DEIS school and see just how close to the wind you have to sail! Three classes is a massive loss!

evolving_doors

Camdyn Purring Pasture wrote: »

This is a very idealistic view - to me it seems out of touch with reality. Try teaching LC HL maths in a DEIS school and see just how close to the wind you have to sail! Three classes is a massive loss!

Is it worth the risk?

r93kaey5p2izun

evolving_doors wrote: »

Is it worth the risk?

I'm not suggesting any risk should be taken. I agree with the closures both yesterday and today. But the loss is significant for me for 3 HL maths classes. Talk of sailing close to the wind bears no resemblance to reality for me.

maryishere

fisgon wrote: »

This is an overreaction.

Some parts of the country have been badly hit, but others have hardly been affected at all. Another day of closure is total overkill, especially if it is for the whole country, no exceptions. Those who need to close should do so, but all should not be forced to.

The argument that schools have to be checked for damage is not sustainable - most other organizations are returning to work tomorrow, and they are all housed in buildings that may or may not have been damaged. In parts of the country it is not possible that any damage was done, as there wasn't anything above a medium strong wind for a few hours.

Correct. Much of the country struggled to even get 100 kph winds. No wonder we are the laughing stock of the world. Many workplaces are badly disrupted today as well, as some parents are forced to stay at home, unable to get childcare.

fisgon

doc_17 wrote: »

Whatever about this being an overreaction at least we will all definitely know by tonight that no child or teacher were killed as a result of going to school during a tropical storm or ex-hurricane.

What ex-hurricane? We are talking about today, not yesterday. I have no problem with yesterday's closures. The storm is gone. In many parts of the country it is a normal day with no damage done. People all over the country are going in to work today and not being killed.

doc_17

I’m already like every other leaving very HL Maths teacher and staying back one evening per week. I can’t be missing time as it is but it couldn’t be avoided. I wish all Maths teachers would not stay back at all!

r93kaey5p2izun

doc_17 wrote: »

I’m already like every other leaving very HL Maths teacher and staying back one evening per week. I can’t be missing time as it is but it couldn’t be avoided. I wish all Maths teachers would not stay back at all!

Yes, needs its own thread really but it's a massive issue. We have two hours extra per week after school for 6th HL and one hour for 3rd HL and 5th HL. Thankfully the 3rd/6th extras receive some funding (paid at the same rate as those taking evening study) but that is constantly at risk with budget cuts. Unluckily for me I have all three groups at the moment. The IMTA report on the unrealistically long syllabus has just been completely ignored.

The time lost is a big issue but I agree with you that it couldn't be avoided.

Powerhouse

Camdyn Purring Pasture wrote: »

This is a very idealistic view - to me it seems out of touch with reality. Try teaching LC HL maths in a DEIS school and see just how close to the wind you have to sail! Three classes is a massive loss!

Idealistic is the last thing I am. I am an absolute pragmatist, which you have to be when you see the disruption that routinely occurs to class-time throughout the year. If I regarded three classes as a massive loss, I'd teach the students after school.

The classes I have lost in the last few days I will catch up on in normal class time over the coming weeks. My workload does not magically divide into 167 days - I have more control over it than that. I am not idealistic enough to have every single class mapped out so that I get thrown by unforeseen events. I had three classes disrupted by assemblies last Friday. If I were idealistic that'd drive me mad. But the pragmatist in me just gets on with it.

sillysocks

Surely one of the main reasons for closing all schools was because the storm went on so late in the evening yesterday for a lot of principals they wouldn't have been able to get to the school to assess damages. If there wasn't a blanket closure some would have had to either take risks to get to the school and assess power/damage etc, or wait until this morning at which stage if they decided to close with an hours notice then parents would have been even more put out.
No win situation really!

Powerhouse

acequion wrote: »

You are obviously not an English teacher and do not realise the sheer and actually excessive volume of work that needs covering in the allotted time.

Funnily enough I am an English teacher but I still think any teacher in any subject should be capable of organising themselves to catch up on three classes. Not every school allocates the same number of classes to any specific LC subject every year anyway and the work gets done.

In January 2010 my school didn't reopen until about 17th January because of the bad weather and consequent damage, yet the work was still covered. We are talking about three classes here, not three weeks.

Romantic Rose

For any casual subs that were due to be working yesterday or today, make sure the principal logs your days on the OLCS before they log the school closures. You should still be paid if you were booked in to work on either day.

r93kaey5p2izun

Powerhouse wrote: »

Idealistic is the last thing I am. I am an absolute pragmatist, which you have to be when you see the disruption that routinely occurs to class-time throughout the year. If I regarded three classes as a massive loss, I'd teach the students after school.

The classes I have lost in the last few days I will catch up on in normal class time over the coming weeks. My workload does not magically divide into 167 days - I have more control over it than that. I am not idealistic enough to have every single class mapped out so that I get thrown by unforeseen events. I had three classes disrupted by assemblies last Friday. If I were idealistic that'd drive me mad. But the pragmatist in me just gets on with it.

I'm fairly pragmatic myself. I also just get on with it. It's a fact that many maths teachers, and the IMTA, believe the current syllabus cannot be covered in the alloted time. We already teach the students after school. You seem to think covering the syllabus should fit the alloted time with some flexibility if a teacher is well organised. That's fair enough but it just doesn't work in reality according to huge numbers of maths teachers. The added issues in a DEIS school only make it more difficult.

evolving_doors

Ive also heard there're a lot of schools who have to run extra maths classes after school to get through the course.

km79

Edmodo/google classroom very handy for justbthis situation.........

Powerhouse

Camdyn Purring Pasture wrote: »

I'm fairly pragmatic myself. I also just get on with it. It's a fact that many maths teachers, and the IMTA, believe the current syllabus cannot be covered in the alloted time. We already teach the students after school. You seem to think covering the syllabus should fit the alloted time with some flexibility if a teacher is well organised. That's fair enough but it just doesn't work in reality according to huge numbers of maths teachers. The added issues in a DEIS school only make it more difficult.

I can't comment with specificity on the Maths situation and wouldn't doubt your bona fides one bit but (referring to the piece in bold) broadly speaking I do. That's the deal. There's no choice. There are people who write entire books about pieces of text that teachers must cover in a fairly attenuated amount of class time. I could spend a week or more going through the nuts and bolts of a piece of text but I don't have the time and have to plan accordingly. My point is that if I am expected to cover the year's work in X number of classes anyway doing it in three classes less would be well within the wriggle room I would allow.

km79

Subs who were lined up for work today and yday will be paid
That's great news in fairness

r93kaey5p2izun

Powerhouse wrote: »

I can't comment with specificity on the Maths situation and wouldn't doubt your bona fides one bit but (referring to the piece in bold) broadly speaking I do. That's the deal. There's no choice. There are people who write entire books about pieces of text that teachers must cover in a fairly attenuated amount of class time. I could spend a week or more going through the nuts and bolts of a piece of text but I don't have the time and have to plan accordingly. My point is that if I am expected to cover the year's work in X number of classes anyway doing it in three classes less would be well within the wriggle room I would allow.

I see where you're coming from but this is what reads as idealistic and unrealistic from my point of view. To me this is just an impossibility given the syllabus and students we have.

happywithlife

km79 wrote: »

Subs who were lined up for work today and yday will be paid
That's great news in fairness

For definite?
School I'm in is constantly moaning about lack of resources. I know there's already been an argument with extra curricular over cost of buses to matches and it's only October! I have s leak in my roof and was pretty much passed off by mgt when I brought it to their attention as it's just one of many leaks. Was actually half Hoping to get an email today to see half the roof tore off as I cannot see it getting fixed any time soon othetwise

BoatMad

good decision re todays closures, schools are not like adult businesses , kids cant be sent home on a whim. inspections have to take place in daylight hours and many schools may be fine but have no power

km79

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2017-Press-Releases/PR17-10-17.html

Back tomorrow

Powerhouse

Camdyn Purring Pasture wrote: »

I see where you're coming from but this is what reads as idealistic and unrealistic from my point of view. To me this is just an impossibility given the syllabus and students we have.

I cannot for the life of me see how you would see that as idealistic when it is nothing other than pragmatic i.e. I cover the course as best I can in the allotted time.

Idealistic for me would be inappropriately allocating the time to topics that I might like to ideally. But I'm not in an ideal situation so idealism doesn't arise. Like I said I cannot comment on the specifics of your situation but in mine 'impossibility' doesn't really come into it. The students will sit an exam at the end of the year whether it suits me or not and I have to prepare them for that whether I lose three classes to external circumstances or not.

For what it's worth I have over several years brought in students over Easter and done classes after school too. I am not a great fan of this for various reasons not least of which is the imposition of Croke Park hours - if I am forced to do extra hours I am far less inclined to voluntarily do more. Also last year I had more students from another teacher's class than my own! - no problem with helping them out but my own group were clearly not bothered enough to come in. As ever the students who needed it most did not show. But this extra stuff was never done to compensate for something as relatively small as the loss of just three classes. I'd always survive that. It was more to capitalise on the fact that the students finally beginning to feel pressure and might focus on working well. Again, this was pragmatism, nothing more than that.

acequion

Powerhouse wrote: »

Funnily enough I am an English teacher but I still think any teacher in any subject should be capable of organising themselves to catch up on three classes. Not every school allocates the same number of classes to any specific LC subject every year anyway and the work gets done.

In January 2010 my school didn't reopen until about 17th January because of the bad weather and consequent damage, yet the work was still covered. We are talking about three classes here, not three weeks.

Powerhouse wrote: »

I had three classes disrupted by assemblies last Friday. If I were idealistic that'd drive me mad. But the pragmatist in me just gets on with it.

I think it's the "get on with it mentality" that is the downfall of front line workers.

No matter how unreasonable the demands and expectations, no matter how badly working conditions are cut, no matter what minor or major event interferes with their work, mugs like teachers and nurses will always "get on with it." You guys seem to see this stoic taking everything on the chin as something to be proud of. Well I very much beg to differ.

While there will always be unforeseen circumstances like yesterday, a lot of the minor stuff could be minimised. I don't think it acceptable that a teacher misses quite a number of classes due to events such as assemblies,trips extra curriculars. Such events should be organised with a view to minimum disruption to classes. They frequently are not because most teachers say nothing and "just get on with it." But don't forget that when it comes to covering a course and getting results, the buck generally stops with the teacher. This isn't fair either as there are so many variables but that's how it is.

I well remember the snow disruption of 2010 and I also remember making up some of the time with LC English in after school classes. I will do something similar now because three 40 min classes is exactly two hours of lost tuition which in my opinion is huge. So you're right that the work always gets done but that is because most teachers,by their nature, will put themselves out on a limb to do so. Such goodwill should not be so taken for granted, but unfortunately it is.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Does anyone know if teachers will have to work 2 extra days later in the year to make up for the two days off at home for the storm?

acequion

evolving_doors wrote: »

Are all the roads clear with overhanging trees assessed, power and running water restored?

To my knowledge, yes. While a lot of the south and south west took the brunt of the storm, my area escaped with little or no damage. As did many parts of the country. Therefore I really think this blanket closure was unnecessary. It should have been at the discretion of each board. That way the majority of schools could have been back today. I still maintain that it's health and safety gone mad.

BoatMad

acequion wrote: »

To my knowledge, yes. While a lot of the south and south west took the brunt of the storm, my area escaped with little or no damage. As did many parts of the country. Therefore I really think this blanket closure was unnecessary. It should have been at the discretion of each board. That way the majority of schools could have been back today. I still maintain that it's health and safety gone mad.

You can't foresee power disruption , nor can you have schools " suddenly " deciding on Tuesday morning or worse still trying to send kids hone when they discover the power isn't back or the water dries up on Tuesday morning

Kids arnt adults. They are not independently mobile etc.

By the way parts of wicklow Waterford and wexford were very badly hit on a scale not that different from elsewhere in thevSW

phater phagan

I really have difficulty understanding why people would not put children's safety and well-being first because of one extra day off.

If a school were to open with an unseen damage fault, and god forbid, a child was injured (or worse) then there would be a hue and cry about why it was allowed to happen. It's one lousy day, not a month, we're talking about.

Really hard to fathom IMO.

doc_17

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Does anyone know if teachers will have to work 2 extra days later in the year to make up for the two days off at home for the storm?

No. Unless further closures happen due to snow.