Why does Dublin only have one airport whereas similarly-sized cities have two?

737max

Hmmm, you don't tell me to look at page 101.

This raises the question of the ability of the current road
infrastructure to absorb the currently observed road traffic growth. Even though the future
Metro North to the airport will satisfy an apparent demand for public transport solutions(like fook it will)
and relieve the road network, a comprehensive traffic study is recommended to to verify
the residual road capacity and to evaluate the impact a
nd benefit of proposed
solutions.

The metro when/if it is built if the economy doesn't go in to recession between now and then will not hook up to a bus station or a train station yet this airport is supposed to be the main airport for the entire country.
Here where I am I can walk down to the local train station and buy a ticket for the 100km or so to get me via train and then high speed train to the multi-platform Station in the main airport in this part of the country.
Do you know what I see when taking a train from the on-site airport station here; Loads of people with wheelie suitcases. I get off the high speed train at the nearest big city and they continue on for I don't know 50, 100, 200km more; That's an integrated transport solution.

The report you link to basically says "we've got a motorway nearby but the traffic does back up on the roads which link from the motorway to the airport".

ctrl-f and look for references to train or tram or rail or bus and see what you find.

you see, you present me with a report which ultimately contradicts what you would like me to believe and contradicts my personal direct experience of trying to connect to the airport. Why should I believe you?

When/If the metro is built getting to/from the airport to anywhere outside Dublin especially from 20:00 to 08:00 will still be an ordeal.

Do you want to talk about the projected population increase in the Greater Dublin Area in the coming two decades and the impact that will have on journey times.

Jamie2k9

No city the size of Dublin has two airports in Europe, most are 2 and 3 times bigger and/or serve 4/5 times the population than DUB.

Using Belfast as an example just shows what a disaster having two airports in a small city means.

BHD is the DUP's baby, bit like how politicians treated SNN until no so long ago.

faceman

I wouldn’t even be considering a second airport until another runway and terminal was built and were forecast to be at capacity. Also where would we stick it? Tallaght? Glen of the Downs? Carlow?

Bigger issue is infrastructure to and from the airport. Being a southsider I tend to avoid flights departing between 9 and 11am on weekdays as the drive to the airport will be painful and risky if there is a crash.

Personally I’d like to see the M50 loop closed (yes I know it would look mad having a motorway over or under Dublin Bay but it’s necessary) and an outer ring road developed.

Give me a box of crayons and I’ll do a better job than our city planners!

737max

faceman wrote: »

where would we stick it? Tallaght? Glen of the Downs? Carlow?

already owned but it is just used for the air corps trainers and the govt. jet.
if they wanted to develop a proper connected airport I'd shut up about a 2nd airport.
In other countries the local government are shareholders in the airport and work toward the interests of the greater economy. it works. I think the only proper example of that in Ireland is Galway who can't even deliver clean water to their residents.

Jhcx

Davidth88 wrote: »

You have Belfast airport only 1.5 hours from Dublin to the north ... Shannon 2 hrs to the west and cork 2.5 hours to the south..... do you really need another one ?

I am surprised Ryanair does not call Shannon "Dublin West " .. it's not much further from Dublin than hahn is from Frankfurt or beauvais is from Paris.

Anyway according to some politicians Ryanair are already operating secret flights from Weston!!

What is needed is a second runway at dublin and a rail link .

This has been on my mind a lot. why havent Ryanair gone out of their way to provide more traffic. its not like there always on great terms with DAA. and yet if someone else was to operate from shannon . they'd move back in a heartbeat and pull out after the competition has gone.

Mutant z

It doesnt really need another one what it does need is a railway link to that airport and a metro system neither of which have as yet gotten off the ground.

bk

The question you have to ask is, why?!

You almost have the perfect scenario with Dublin Airport.

- Pretty good modern airport
- Relatively very close to Dublin
- Plenty of space to expand, second runway, third terminal.
- Right on the M50, 2 to 3 hours on a Motorway to every city in Ireland.
- Now a major bus/coach depot.
- Will in the next few years be connected to Dublin And Swords (5th largest town/city in Ireland) by Metro.
- Could be plugged into the heavy rail network for relatively small cost.

You literally couldn't pick for a better scenario if you were playing sim-city!

Madness to even suggest a second airport for Dublin without first tapping out Dublin Airport. And to be honest, even once Dublin Airport is full, probably better to develop Cork, Shannon, etc. as alternatives, then building a whole new airport.

Davidth88

bk wrote:

- Pretty good modern airport - Relatively very close to Dublin - Plenty of space to expand, second runway, third terminal. - Right on the M50, 2 to 3 hours on a Motorway to every city in Ireland. - Now a major bus/coach depot. - Will in the next few years be connected to Dublin And Swords (5th largest town/city in Ireland) by Metro. - Could be plugged into the heavy rail network for relatively small cost.

I think the next few years for a metro is a little optimistic. Let's try 20 or 30 years ........if ever.

bk

Davidth88 wrote: »

I think the next few years for a metro is a little optimistic. Let's try 20 or 30 years ........if ever.

I'll happily bet €100 with you on that

Of course no guarantees, but it is looking very likely now.

The Taoiseach has specifically mentioned it (and the M20) repeatedly, including a tweet saying that it will be the next major project for Dublin.

Money was specifically set aside for it in the budget and behind the scenes I hear the planners at TII are scrambling to get it planned and tender for contracts go out in December.

Politically, Luas BXD will be complete in the next two months. After that no major transport infrastructure project will be happening in Dublin. Given how bad congestion is getting, it would be political suicide for FG to go for election in 2 to 3 years time in Dublin if no real progress is being made on this.

Of course no guarantees, Brexit or something similar might push us back into a recession, but otherwise it is looking very good now.

Carawaystick

737max wrote: »

When/If the metro is built getting to/from the airport to anywhere outside Dublin especially from 20:00 to 08:00 will still be an ordeal.

Do you want to talk about the projected population increase in the Greater Dublin Area in the coming two decades and the impact that will have on journey times.

It's waay easier to get PT to the airport from anywhere outside Dublin especially at the times you suggest than from in Dublin. There's no PT for most staff gettin to the airport at the time of the first flights, there's no PT from Coolock or Artane, Finglas
But there's coaches from every little town to the airport.

737max

Carawaystick wrote: »

But there's coaches from every little town to the airport.

Well, that bears no relationship to reality whatsoever or maybe I'm just trying to get to the airport from the Irish Brigadoon.

Victor

The airport does have a lot of long distance routes.

https://6fbc941dc3601609010c-fefe0183ab5374c49be7718979d9b9c7.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Dublin-Airport-City-Routes1.pdf

https://6fbc941dc3601609010c-fefe0183ab5374c49be7718979d9b9c7.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Dublin-Airport-Regional-Routes1.pdf

737max

Victor, do I need to remind you of the post where you advised someone to cross the entire country then double back halfway to get to where they wanted to get to from the airport?

Victor

737max wrote: »

Victor, do I need to remind you of the post where you advised someone to cross the entire country then double back halfway to get to where they wanted to get to from the airport?

It got them there much quicker, didn't it?

JCX BXC

Clutching at straws there to discredit discussion now 737max, how about we all agree to disagree?

737max

The claim was that Dublin Airport has good transport connections to the regions. I know for a fact that it doesn't and that if you don't have a hire car you are stranded.
A month or two ago Victor advised a guy travelling to the Midlands and arriving in to the airport after 8 to get a bus(not a train) to Ceantt Station and then get another bus to get back to the Midlands because no buses stop in the midlands late at night. The information was correct. Was it good advice? All it showed was that transport connections from the airport are very poor.

I can arrive in to Frankfurt on the last flight at night before the airport shuts down and have multiple options to get back to the bottom of my street by train. That doesn't exist in Ireland. Hell, I can even get back from Hahn late at night and that airport is in the middle of nowhere.

JCX BXC

737max wrote: »

The claim was that Dublin Airport has good transport connections to the regions. I know for a fact that it doesn't and that if you don't have a hire car you are stranded.

That's just grossly incorrect, I'd assume all the times I've decided to travel to the airport using public transport, all the way from Co.Clare, that I somehow got stranded?

I think that point says alot about how much sense alot of your posts make.

737max

...and yet I find myself renting a car tomorrow night from Dublin Airport.
Quit with your "you be talking crazy" sh!te.

The timetables are on the buseireann and iarnrod eireann websites and you can find the private operator timetables yourself. Connectivity from Dublin Airport after 8 is atrocious and if you are flying from Europe after a working day you'll be lucky to get anywhere outside the pale if you arrive in after 8.

L1011

737max wrote: »

Quit with your "you be talking crazy" sh!te.

Improve your posting standard or stop posting

737max wrote: »

.
The timetables are on the buseireann and iarnrod eireann websites and you can find the private operator timetables yourself.

www.a-b.ie

Negative_G

737max wrote: »

already owned but it is just used for the air corps trainers and the govt. jet.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to recommend Baldonnel. This old chestnut is rolled out every so often.

Baldonnel is the only dedicated military airfield in the country for flying operations. The cessation of operations at Finner camp and Gormonston mean that almost 100% of all Air Corps training and operations originate and end in Baldonnel.

Commercial operations will never happen at Baldonnel. The only possible expansion would be to include private jet operations, similar to RAF Northolt. However, you will not find ab initio and routine flight training taking place at Northolt as it is a purely operational airport and at all times maintains a 'military supremacy' MO where military traffic gets priority at all times so as not to affect their operations.

737max

I'm about the only one here who gets the rest of you challenge your preconceptions even when they are so obviously wrong.

If you want more polite repartee can I recommend the 1995 BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice starring Miss Jennifer Ehle and the dreamy Colin Firth.

737max

Negative_G wrote: »

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to recommend Baldonnel. This old chestnut is rolled out every so often.

Baldonnel is the only dedicated military airfield in the country for flying operations. The cessation of operations at Finner camp and Gormonston mean that almost 100% of all Air Corps training and operations originate and end in Baldonnel.

Commercial operations will never happen at Baldonnel. The only possible expansion would be to include private jet operations, similar to RAF Northolt. However, you will not find ab initio and routine flight training taking place at Northolt as it is a purely operational airport and at all times maintains a 'military supremacy' MO where military traffic gets priority at all times so as not to affect their operations.

I don't want to talk about Baldonnel but sharing an airport isn't so unusual. I've flown in to airports in India and seen the Harriers lined up not far from the runway which makes a change from bizjets and civil aviation jets.

Tell me how many minutes would it take to launch Irelands entire Air Force from Baldonnel. Is it less than the time spent taxi-ing at Dublin Airport in the morning.

It is good to share.

Negative_G

737max wrote: »

I don't want to talk about Baldonnel but sharing an airport isn't so unusual. I've flown in to airports in India and seen the Harriers lined up not far from the runway which makes a change from bizjets and civil aviation jets.

It is good to share.

Agreed it isnt unusual.

The point Im making is that its one thing to share an airport when an air arm has more than one base. You will struggle to find any examples comparable to the size of Ireland. The only one I can think off is Malta which is tiny in comparison.

You can't hope to conduct almost 100% of training and operations while accommodating commercial traffic.

Negative_G

737max wrote: »

Tell me how many minutes would it take to launch Irelands entire Air Force from Baldonnel. Is it less than the time spent taxi-ing at Dublin Airport in the morning.

While its clear you have a strong opinion/agenda about the topic, the above comment makes little sense and adds nothing to the discussion.

I've no idea how long it would take. Given the manpower issues the Air Corps are currently experiencing I would guess that it would take quite a while longer than taxiing around Dublin Airport.

737max

Negative_G wrote: »

Agreed it isnt unusual.

The point Im making is that its one thing to share an airport when an air arm has more than one base. You will struggle to find any examples comparable to the size of Ireland. The only one I can think off is Malta which is tiny in comparison.

You can't hope to conduct almost 100% of training and operations while accommodating commercial traffic.

Yes, I worked in a nearby estate and I'd hear the planes when they were around. Those planes weren't up and flying in the vicinity much especially as if they clock up hours on the planes the Government for their shame won't pay for replacement much less run them.

Del2005

Negative_G wrote: »

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to recommend Baldonnel. This old chestnut is rolled out every so often.

Baldonnel is the only dedicated military airfield in the country for flying operations. The cessation of operations at Finner camp and Gormonston mean that almost 100% of all Air Corps training and operations originate and end in Baldonnel.

Commercial operations will never happen at Baldonnel. The only possible expansion would be to include private jet operations, similar to RAF Northolt. However, you will not find ab initio and routine flight training taking place at Northolt as it is a purely operational airport and at all times maintains a 'military supremacy' MO where military traffic gets priority at all times so as not to affect their operations.

Why do we need a military airfield when we have for all intents no air force? We've got a few fast jet trainers for an airforce that'll never get fast jets, some civil helicopters painted green and a some maritime patrol aircraft. There's more chance of getting the Dart to Dingle than any government investing in the Aer Corps so Baldonnel may as well be turned into a civil air port. Not forgetting that it can't afford to do night operations. Maybe if it did have civil traffic the infrastructure could be improved for the Aer Corps.

Oh yeah I forgot a couple of biz jets for the government to fly around on.

L1011

737max wrote: »

I'm about the only one here who gets the rest of you challenge your preconceptions even when they are so obviously wrong.

If you want more polite repartee can I recommend the 1995 BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice starring Miss Jennifer Ehle and the dreamy Colin Firth.

You making statements as if they were fact and diving away when challenged is not challenging preconceptions, it is borderline trolling - and I'm not even that sure about the borderline bit tbh.

737max

L1011 wrote: »

You making statements as if they were fact and diving away when challenged is not challenging preconceptions, it is borderline trolling - and I'm not even that sure about the borderline bit tbh.

Back at ya:
You making statements as if they were fact and diving away when challenged

Look at the train timetables and the bus eireann timetables and the shuttle service to BusAras and Heuston and Connolly and tell me where exactly can you get to on the Island after 20:00 more like after 9:30 when you get through immigration and catch a bus to the stations.

It is ridiculous. fingers in ears, Na, Na, Na, Na. Ireland has a great public transport system. Ireland has a great public transport system. Na, Na, Na, Na.

L1011

737max wrote: »

Back at ya:
You making statements as if they were fact and diving away when challenged

Look at the train timetables and the bus eireann timetables and the shuttle service to BusAras and Heuston and Connolly and tell me where exactly can you get to on the Island after 20:00 more like after 9:30 when you get through immigration and catch a bus to the stations.

It is ridiculous. fingers in ears, Na, Na, Na, Na. Ireland has a great public transport system. Ireland has a great public transport system. Na, Na, Na, Na.

Irish Rail and Bus Eireann are not the only transport operators in Ireland

Last departures on Aircoach, CityLink, Dublin Coach etc are all after midnight. Some services are 24h. This covers most large urban areas.

Nobody has made claims that Ireland has a great public transport system - they have just challenged your statements-as-fact as being nonsense; which they are.

If you post in such a childish manner again, take a day off.

Brennus335

Baldonnel is a total non-starter as a second Dublin airport. Look at the hassles of the second runway plan in Dublin. Does anyone honestly think an airfield with the primary runway approach over most of south Dublin is ever going to get approved? Not a chance.

In reality, there's no need at all for a second Dublin airport. What there is need for is:
a) a proper parallel runway in Dublin,
b) a good midfield terminal with M50 access,
c) proper light rail connectivity to the city centre,
d) rail connectivity with a spur from the existing Malahide area DART line.

A&C I can see happening, although not in the near term future.
B&D.... Well, I wouldn't keep my hopes up.