PPI Question

Royal Legend

Hi,
I am sure that this has been beaten to death here over the last couple of years but was a bit oblivious to this.
I am 12 years through a 25 year variable mortgage taken out for 140k from PTSB in 2004. Lately i have been checking through my finances and where my money goes and one of the things i thought I was sure of was mortgage protection insurance etc.
My mortgage statement arrives once a year and in the columns it shows how much I have paid off of my mortgage per month with a total in the parallel column and underneath it shows a figure of €60 with nothing in the corresponding parallel column, which i took to mean that insurance was not been taken.
Lately I got a letter to say that my mortgage was reducing slightly (by about €1 per month to do with tax relief collected at source) and it showed the total new payment of €740 + €60 to make up the payment of €800/mth, previously paying €801/mth.
Beside the €60 on the letter which was marked as insurance and it had an asterisk, which I take to mean read the small print elsewhere, lo and behold there was nowhere on the letter front or back that showed what the asterisk meant.
I rang PTSB to find out what the €60 was about and was told that it was mortgage protection insurance, I told them that I had separate mortgage protection insurance, I asked how could I find out what was covered in the policy and I was told that I would have to call the insurance company, I said I have not details of who to call or have never received any correspondence of same. I was told the policy was with Genworth and I was given a number to call and also the insurance policy number reference.
When I rang the number the first message I received from the auto answering machine was that if I was inquiring about the sale of PPI that i should call PTSB on a different number, did not take any notice of this as I did not think it was relevant to me.
When I got through it was to AXA insurance and the person that i talked to there said that they were the underwriters for the PTSB and that the insurance i was paying €60/mth was PPI. I asked could they send me out a policy schedule and they told me no that PTSB who held the policy and that I would have to request it from them. I asked what the policy covered and could I get a copy of that and the person said that they could send this out to me but it could take 7-10 days. I also asked could I cancel the policy as it was not relevant to me and that I had life cover for the mortgage, they said I would have to request in writing from the PTSB who would then inform them,


I then rang the other PTSB number and explained that I was looking for the policy schedule and they put me onto another girl in the PTSB.
She said that I would have to contact Genworth? I told her who I had already spoken to and that I was given the AXA number and they had told me to ring the PTSB. Then she said that after Genworth it was Allianz who held the policy and could I hold while she checked into the details,
After 3-4 minutes she came back on and said she could not find the details and mentioned Genworth and Allianz again and that she had spoken to her supervisor, but that she would take my details and would look into it and call me back in the next couple of days to see of she could find the schedule.

It was then I looked up the the issues with the PPI. I know for definite that we took out the mortgage in 2004 and we were told that we had to take out PPI as they also asked did we want to take out life cover and I said no that we would look after the life cover ourselves, which we did. I had started a new job less than a year before and i was not sure if it would last as at the time you were not classed as full time unless you had been at a company for over 2 years if I am not mistaken.

For the last 12 years I have had no correspondence from the PPI insurance company, PTSB had to give me the policy number today and they don't seem to know who has the policy schedule.

So my questions are should I cancel this policy straight away or hold off to ensure that I get the records first?

Secondly is €60/mth a lot to be paying for PPI on a 140k mortgage?

and last do I have any recourse in relation to being mis-sold a PPI?

Royal Legend

Any takers on my questions above?
Still getting the run around.

how.gareth

Royal Legend wrote: »

Any takers on my questions above?
Still getting the run around.

We took out a €250k ish mortgage in 2007. Mortgage protection is about €30 a month and that covers me or the wife dying. We were 30 ish when we took it out, €60 a month sounds a lot but it probably has some kind of illness benefits like if you get cancer and can’t pay your bills as well as payment in death

Royal Legend

how.gareth wrote: »

We took out a €250k ish mortgage in 2007. Mortgage protection is about €30 a month and that covers me or the wife dying. We were 30 ish when we took it out, €60 a month sounds a lot but it probably has some kind of illness benefits like if you get cancer and can’t pay your bills as well as payment in death

This is PPI, we pay just over €30 for Mortgage protection, which covers the mortgage in the event of one of us dying etc. this is something that a few years later it was found that Banks were selling this fraudulently both here and in the UK.

Rang the PTSB again and they said I need to speak to the insurance company, yet it was the PTSB that sold it to me, which i pointed out more than once.

I just need to know that of I cancel the policy will i still be able to claim compensation or am i wasting my time in relation to that as well.

phormium

I can't see how cancelling the policy would affect any payout or refund for wrongful selling provided you were sold it incorrectly.

Not everyone was, it was a suitable product for lots of people at the time they took out the mortgage. If people's situation changes in following years then it should be reviewed along with everything else you would review in a change of circumstances.

The amount you pay depends on the repayment you insured day one, it was usually sold in blocks of say €50 for x amount so you could choose to cover the full repayment or less whichever. Premiums were stationery for a long time and then started to rise some time ago (probably around 2008) when there were more claims particularly for redundancy.

To clarify for anyone reading, mortgage protection insurance is what covers you if you die, payment protection insurance is what covers the payments if you are out of work due to accident/illness/redundancy normally for a fixed period only usually around 12 months.

Royal Legend

phormium wrote: »

I can't see how cancelling the policy would affect any payout or refund for wrongful selling provided you were sold it incorrectly.

Not everyone was, it was a suitable product for lots of people at the time they took out the mortgage. If people's situation changes in following years then it should be reviewed along with everything else you would review in a change of circumstances.

The amount you pay depends on the repayment you insured day one, it was usually sold in blocks of say €50 for x amount so you could choose to cover the full repayment or less whichever. Premiums were stationery for a long time and then started to rise some time ago (probably around 2008) when there were more claims particularly for redundancy.

To clarify for anyone reading, mortgage protection insurance is what covers you if you die, payment protection insurance is what covers the payments if you are out of work due to accident/illness/redundancy normally for a fixed period only usually around 12 months.

Thanks for the reply. At the time we were told that we had to take this out while we were getting the mortgage.
I have asked for a copy of the original policy document to see what is covered as I never received one. When i ring AXA they say that PTSB have the original, when i ring PTSB they say that i have to ring Genworth !!!
I said to the person yesterday in PTSB that it was the PTSB that sold me the policy. I am in the middle of sending a letter direct to the PTSB to see if I can get any kind of answer.
I have never received any correspondence from Genworth or Axa in relation to this policy and the payment comes out of my account by direct debit every month as a lump sum in connection with my mortgage to the PTSB. The one page overview of the policy that i got from Axa says that it is renewed every July, but i have never received any correspondence in relation to same?

how.gareth

Sorry OP I read that wrong first time round

Royal Legend

how.gareth wrote: »

Sorry OP I read that wrong first time round

No problem Gareth, the policy from Axa calls it a "Permanent TSB Accident/Sickness/Redundancy Policy" I thin that by the time you took out your mortgage they had stopped selling these as they were seen as been mis-sold to a lot of people both here and in the UK

phormium

Seems like a bog standard Payment Protection Insurance which covers your repayment if you are out of work due to Accident/Illness or Redundancy. Usually it doesn't pay the first month and then pays for up to a year, obviously you'd need to see the exact policy to confirm all this. They were still available up to a few years ago and probably still are but became a lot more expensive after the last crash when redundancy caused a lot more claims.

They were never a specific requirement for a mortgage the same way life cover is but were heavily sold and sometimes incorrectly. They served a useful purpose for some people and my favourite use of them was where both applicants were working in the same multinational factory for example which often happened. If the factory was suddenly closed which happened then both were out of work and mortgage still needed paying so it could be an insurance worth having in that sort of circumstance.

Now obviously they didn't suit everyone and no doubt lots of people didn't really understand what sort of insurance they were taking out and many more didn't listen when it was explained It is really an insurance more needed in early years of mortgage assuming that income rises etc and things are not so tight in later years where someone could manage for months if no income due to one of the insured reasons but like any insurance it should be reviewed regularly to make sure it still meets your needs.

Royal Legend

phormium wrote: »

Seems like a bog standard Payment Protection Insurance which covers your repayment if you are out of work due to Accident/Illness or Redundancy. Usually it doesn't pay the first month and then pays for up to a year, obviously you'd need to see the exact policy to confirm all this. They were still available up to a few years ago and probably still are but became a lot more expensive after the last crash when redundancy caused a lot more claims.

They were never a specific requirement for a mortgage the same way life cover is but were heavily sold and sometimes incorrectly. They served a useful purpose for some people and my favourite use of them was where both applicants were working in the same multinational factory for example which often happened. If the factory was suddenly closed which happened then both were out of work and mortgage still needed paying so it could be an insurance worth having in that sort of circumstance.

Now obviously they didn't suit everyone and no doubt lots of people didn't really understand what sort of insurance they were taking out and many more didn't listen when it was explained It is really an insurance more needed in early years of mortgage assuming that income rises etc and things are not so tight in later years where someone could manage for months if no income due to one of the insured reasons but like any insurance it should be reviewed regularly to make sure it still meets your needs.

Thanks for the reply, paying around €60 for €950 cover, not sure what that means. I have sent PTSB a letter so we will see what transpires.
I suppose the question that you kind of answered earlier, does it make a difference if i cancel the policy even though i might be in dispute with them?

phormium

Well can't say for certain obviously but how could it affect the outcome? If you feel you were sold it incorrectly and it wasn't going to benefit you and you no longer need it then the obvious thing to do is cancel it. That doesn't stop you disputing what reason it was mis-sold to you in the first place.

Regarding the cost it was usually sold in multiples of €50 or €100 of cover for with a set premium for the the €50 so you basically have 19 units of cover if in 50s but costs have changed over the years so it might be different now.