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Marmion, McGrath or Cooney?

2»

Comments

  • #52
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Ryan is better already than any irish 2nd row at Munster.

    Again. Where did I claim he wasn't?


  • #53
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Yeah Ryan isnt going to add to his caps this upcoming season at all.. was fast tracked into ireland for absolutely no reason at all.. HA

    Mod: Ryan, Beirne at Al are not scrum halves. Back on topic please


  • #54
    Erik Shin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭Erik Shin


    Anything to be said for another Williams?


    :D


  • #55
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    I remember the infamous post that claimed Mr Williams was the second best scrum half in the country not too long ago and was pushing hard for 6N inclusion. Was swiftly put to bed not too long after that. Having said that he's a better player than the **** he gets from some fans. Always seemed an easy scapegoat when Munster were at their lowest ebb.


  • #56
    Wegians89
    Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Has Hart got a game for munster yet?


  • #57
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Has Hart got a game for munster yet?

    Has a couple of sub appearances and is now sharing his time btween the AIL and the A team.

    He's a good example of far away fields are green. If a player is getting game time for a team in another country that is in no way a guarantee that he's actually any decent. He may well just be filling a hole for that team on the cheap.

    Every time we see someone perform well abroad, we jump up and down about them. Johne Murphy, Robin Copeland, James Hart, Ruaidhri Murphy...generally if they're allowed depart from the academy/underage structure, there's a good reason. The days of guys like Geordan Murphy, Mike Ross and Eoin Reddan not being recognised as real talents is gone.


  • #58
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    It's a bit early to write off Hart. Mike Ross made no impact in his first season at Leinster.


  • #59
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's a bit early to write off Hart. Mike Ross made no impact in his first season at Leinster.

    Mike Ross started HEC games and made mincemeat of the Brive scrum in his first season with Leinster. His fitness was poor but it was clear he was a real talent.

    I'm not writing Hart off but I do think people were over zealous in their assessment of him based largely on the fact that he was playing in France.

    Given he hasn't managed a single start and we're moving towards November, I'm guessing he's not really rated by the Munster coaching team either. He's going to need a big shift in how he's viewed if he's going to get more than a couple of starts this season. At 26 he's not a kid anymore. Years ahead of him but he's at an age where he'll be expected to be close to hitting his peak.


  • #60
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Buer wrote: »
    Mike Ross started HEC games and made mincemeat of the Brive scrum in his first season with Leinster. His fitness was poor but it was clear he was a real talent.

    I'm not writing Hart off but I do think people were over zealous in their assessment of him based largely on the fact that he was playing in France.

    Given he hasn't managed a single start and we're moving towards November, I'm guessing he's not really rated by the Munster coaching team either. He's going to need a big shift in how he's viewed if he's going to get more than a couple of starts this season. At 26 he's not a kid anymore. Years ahead of him but he's at an age where he'll be expected to be close to hitting his peak.

    Hart impressed me when he came on against the Cheetahs, his passing was really crisp and quick but the week before he was poor. I'm hopeful he might get some starts around the 6 Nations and push on.


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  • #61
    RichieRich89
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 511 ✭✭✭RichieRich89


    Buer wrote: »
    Has a couple of sub appearances and is now sharing his time btween the AIL and the A team.

    He's a good example of far away fields are green. If a player is getting game time for a team in another country that is in no way a guarantee that he's actually any decent. He may well just be filling a hole for that team on the cheap.

    Every time we see someone perform well abroad, we jump up and down about them. Johne Murphy, Robin Copeland, James Hart, Ruaidhri Murphy...generally if they're allowed depart from the academy/underage structure, there's a good reason. The days of guys like Geordan Murphy, Mike Ross and Eoin Reddan not being recognised as real talents is gone.

    Agree to a certain extent about Hart, but to say that the days of quality players not being recognised as talents are gone is a bit of a sweeping statement. You only need to look at the Tadhg Beirne case to see that it can still happen. Maybe Conor Carey would be another example, but it remains to be seen what the highest level he an attain is.


  • #62
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    RichieRich89 wrote: »
    Agree to a certain extent about Hart, but to say that the days of quality players not being recognised as talents are gone is a bit of a sweeping statement. You only need to look at the Tadhg Beirne case to see that it can still happen. Maybe Conor Carey would be another example, but it remains to be seen what the highest level he an attain is.

    Beirne wasn't released because he wasn't rated. He was released because he couldn't stay fit long enough to prove he had what it took. There are only so many spots in any squad and at some point decisions need to be made about whether a player is worth keeping someone else out or not.


  • #63
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I'll hold off on judgement in relation to Beirne. It's much harder to excel when you're no longer unknown. I've watched him closely in his last two games and the biggest impression he has made has been with the referee.


  • #64
    damianmcr
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭damianmcr


    Who is this irishfan9 idiot?


  • #65
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Buer wrote: »
    I'll hold off on judgement in relation to Beirne. It's much harder to excel when you're no longer unknown. I've watched him closely in his last two games and the biggest impression he has made has been with the referee.

    He played both at 8, didn't he? I supposed you could argue that should've allowed him get to more breakdowns, which is typically an area he has excelled at, with the impressive number of turnovers he's gotten in the past.


  • #66
    JPCN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    Nice dilemma to have!

    Marmion still, but the other two playing some nice rugby and applying pressure solely needed.

    Murray probably the best in his position in the game. Thankfully for Ireland!


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  • #67
    RichieRich89
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 511 ✭✭✭RichieRich89


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Beirne wasn't released because he wasn't rated. He was released because he couldn't stay fit long enough to prove he had what it took. There are only so many spots in any squad and at some point decisions need to be made about whether a player is worth keeping someone else out or not.

    I wouldn't be so forgiving. Looking at the player Beirne is now, it seems to me that Leinster messed up big time in letting him go. Players spend long spells injured. It's happened to Mick Kearney and James Ryan. If they're good enough the club will stick by them. He could have been given a one year academy extension or a development deal on peanuts. Either Leinster didn't recognise his talent or he wasn't outstanding and the Scarlets are way better at turning an academy player into the finished product. Either way, Leinster come out looking bad.


  • #68
    Neil3030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    When you have ~12 schools all supplying a pool for less than 10 academy contracts every year (at least in Leinster) I would not be so naive as to assume players won't slip through the cracks. Barry Daly would certainly beg to differ.


  • #69
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Buer wrote: »
    I'm not writing Hart off but I do think people were over zealous in their assessment of him based largely on the fact that he was playing in France.

    I think there's definitely an element of this. The fact that he got a move to Racing was definitely a factor too.

    As you say, the academies are much better managed than back in the day, and a real talent is unlikely to slip through.

    I'd struggle to name anyone in the last few years that would have gone abroad and really proved an Irish province wrong.


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