NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2017-18

LuckyLloyd

Meatyfubu wrote: »

Goaltend obviously, no ref wants to call that, typical superstar treatment, final play would have been different etc

Ah here!

Meatyfubu

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah here!

Come on, I was obviously being a sarcastic d***, I wear the LBJ PJ's just like you.

ButtersSuki

Ah lads come on, that was a clear goaltend. If the ball hits the backboard (which it did), you can't block it. That's a goaltend.

Look at the replays. I get you're LeBron fans, but FFS own up when he gets away with sh*t - and he gets away with a LOT of sh*t.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/4/25/17283280/lebron-james-block-goaltend-video-cavs-vs-pacers-game-5-nba-playoffs-2018-victor-oladipo

Looked like a goaltend in real time for me. Slow-mo in particular show it.

Why didn't the refs review it though? Terrible officiating to miss it, and worse not to review.

SlickRic

And yet, there will still be people who hate on LeBron. I'm honestly not sure what else he has to do at this point.

That Cavs team has absolutely no business winning this series. If they get out of the East (i.e. get through the 76ers), it'd be some miracle.

Nobody else is getting over 20 points. He literally has no supplementary star to carry the load. It's just not sustainable over the rest of the post-season. It's just not. No matter how great LeBron is, he can't overcome that. Kevin Love in particular simply has to start contributing on the scoreboard. Korver is just about giving some good help in the last 2 games.

The King's greatness cannot be defined by rings. Bar in Miami, and momentarily in Cleveland, he's never had a cast close to what MJ had, and yet for some, he's expected to match his ring total to ever be considered in his league.

LeBron is a freak. No other player on any other team is expected to take on the workload he is. It's insane. I'm not even going into the fact that any player his age couldn't even begin to contribute what he is at the level he's doing it.

I agree with most of your post but don't understand the teammates part when compared to mj. Your saying every ring he has won he probably had as good or better a cast than mj did so that's not really a fair comparison. I would argue he's pretty clearly 2nd all time now (can't argue against Kareem because I didn't see any of him in his peak) and that's from someone who argues bird was better for a long time. At this stage I'm not sure anyone that knows anything would argue agains him being top 5 all time so I don't get the "what more does he have to do argument either"

ButtersSuki

SlickRic wrote: »

And yet, there will still be people who hate on LeBron. I'm honestly not sure what else he has to do at this point.

That Cavs team has absolutely no business winning this series. If they get out of the East (i.e. get through the 76ers), it'd be some miracle.

Nobody else is getting over 20 points. He literally has no supplementary star to carry the load. It's just not sustainable over the rest of the post-season. It's just not. No matter how great LeBron is, he can't overcome that. Kevin Love in particular simply has to start contributing on the scoreboard. Korver is just about giving some good help in the last 2 games.

The King's greatness cannot be defined by rings. Bar in Miami, and momentarily in Cleveland, he's never had a cast close to what MJ had, and yet for some, he's expected to match his ring total to ever be considered in his league.

LeBron is a freak. No other player on any other team is expected to take on the workload he is. It's insane. I'm not even going into the fact that any player his age couldn't even begin to contribute what he is at the level he's doing it.

I'm not dissing the shot, not at all. Big time play.

But call the goaltend.

By the way, Love is effectively playing with a broken thumb. It's not broken, but it's a similar injury.

On the ring total thing - there's much more to it tha that I'm afraid, too simple a comment to make. Can't write more now but it's been discussed to death on here.

SlickRic

ButtersSuki wrote: »

On the ring total thing - there's much more to it tha that I'm afraid, too simple a comment to make. Can't write more now but it's been discussed to death on here.

I'm sure it has. I'm relatively new to scouring these parts, so haven't been privy to all that has been discussed.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah lads come on, that was a clear goaltend. If the ball hits the backboard (which it did), you can't block it. That's a goaltend.

Look at the replays. I get you're LeBron fans, but FFS own up when he gets away with sh*t - and he gets away with a LOT of sh*t.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/4/25/17283280/lebron-james-block-goaltend-video-cavs-vs-pacers-game-5-nba-playoffs-2018-victor-oladipo

Looked like a goaltend in real time for me. Slow-mo in particular show it.

Why didn't the refs review it though? Terrible officiating to miss it, and worse not to review.

The refs didn't review the previous possession to the block where it looked like it went out off an Indiana player. They were in 'let them play' mode. Why that was the case, I have no idea. But in that context you just have to make the plays and let the chips fall where they may.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The refs didn't review the previous possession to the block where it looked like it went out off an Indiana player. They were in 'let them play' mode. Why that was the case, I have no idea. But in that context you just have to make the plays and let the chips fall where they may.

That's boll*x now, I'm sorry. If you're an Indiana player and you work your ass off all year you don't deserve that.

And I'd say the same if it was the other way around btw.

But I think if it was say Lance goaltending LeBron on the exact same play we know what what would happen.

Gregk961

Great play by LeBron, very rare to see somebody make game winning plays and both ends of the floor like that. It looks like a goaltend in fairness but it's very marginal and I'd still call it a good play.

The game winner was a carbon copy of one he had early in his career, think it was against Orlando?

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

Great play by LeBron, very rare to see somebody make game winning plays and both ends of the floor like that. It looks like a goaltend in fairness but it's very marginal and I'd still call it a good play.

The game winner was a carbon copy of one he had early in his career, think it was against Orlando?

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

It's so marginal and it took great athleticism to pull it off either way. Not sure what you are finding so perplexing about that? It bothers me about as much as the 10 or more plays in every game that should be called a travel.

I'm a big fan of real time officiating to be honest, do you really want 5+ minutes of staring at replays at the end of a game?

ButtersSuki

So you’re admitting it was goalltending but have no issue with it not being called? Strange logic,

As I said, it’s bad enough the officials missed it in real time; but not to go to replay is disgraceful. That’s a game changing play in the last two minutes of the game AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN REFERRED.

Will be very interesting to read the officiating report on this, if the NBA dare to go there.

If it was the other way around I can only imagine the whinging from LBJ and all his fanboys.

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

So you’re admitting it was goalltending but have no issue with it not being called? Strange logic,

Yeah pretty much. It would be hypocritical of me to have a problem with certain no calls because It would be terrible for the game if everything was called. It's bad enough as it is with some of the shooting fouls that are called. Lengthy replay reviews kill games IMO.

In my eyes the only thing that should be reviewed is end of period shot clock and a few other "technical" things like that. Leave the fouls, goaltends, out of bounds etc etc to the refs.

I'm far from a LeBron fanboy FWIW (I think the guy is a turd), just though it was an unbelievable end to the game from him.

Meatyfubu

ButtersSuki wrote: »

That's boll*x now, I'm sorry. If you're an Indiana player and you work your ass off all year you don't deserve that.

And I'd say the same if it was the other way around btw.

But I think if it was say Lance goaltending LeBron on the exact same play we know what what would happen.

Lets face it, that's a lie. You would be neither so adamant it was a goaltend nor would you care so much.

PJ's in the wash for game 6 close out

ButtersSuki

Meatyfubu wrote: »

Lets face it, that's a lie. You would be neither so adamant it was a goaltend nor would you care so much.

Ah, what? You’re calling me a liar? Seriously? Sorry but what exactly makes you think you can say that? With all due respect, I’m probably the longest active poster in this thread. I have no reason to state something like that without backing it up. If it was a goaltend I’d call it, regardless of who it is or was against - clearly unlike some posters here.

Meatyfubu

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah, what? You’re calling me a liar? Seriously? Sorry but what exactly makes you think you can say that? With all due respect, I’m probably the longest active poster in this thread. I have no reason to state something like that without backing it up. If it was a goaltend I’d call it, regardless of who it is or was against - clearly unlike some posters here.

Stop being so melodramatic. In light of your previous admittance of disdain for LBJ, I think the part I quoted is probably untrue but I'm not calling you a liar per se.

You're blowing my comment out of proportion with all the active poster stuff. You know thats not what I meant.

Game 6 should be fun

ButtersSuki

Meatyfubu wrote: »

Stop being so melodramatic. In light of your previous admittance of disdain for LBJ, I think the part I quoted is probably untrue but I'm not calling you a liar per se.

You're blowing my comment out of proportion with all the active poster stuff. You know thats not what I meant.

Game 6 should be fun

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. You have attributed something to me that simply isn't true. You're pretty new here, you don't know me, and you can't say something like you've said and not expect a correction.

I don't know what you meant because you can't decipher someone's tone in text. All I have to go on is your posts.

I have repeatedly and frequently said LBJ is the best player in the world - but that's not enough for many posters on here. When I point out his flaws or areas in which he could be better, I'm a hater apparently, despite saying he's the best player in the world (twice in this paragraph alone).

I've always complained about "superstar calls" regardless of who they are for. I honestly would call it the same way if LeBron had been goaltended. I can park whatever criticism I have of him if he's been screwed - but he doesn't get a pass because it's "The King". Go back through my many of my almost 3,000 posts in the Basketball Forum and you'll see I've criticised the refs repeatedly for superstar calls and non-calls over the years.

Pretty much every media outlet - tv, radio, print and online - have called it a clear goaltend. Even the NBA said it was.......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/nba-says-referees-missed-lebron-goaltending-call-in-game-5/2018/04/26/58a47422-499d-11e8-8082-105a446d19b8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.71a6f6c2cb25

.....yet you have people on this thread saying it wasn't.

TBH, I'm kinda shocked they admitted it.

Itssoeasy

Damn it to hell. A game seven in Boston.

NufcNavan

Pacers have to win by 20 to win by 1.

Meatyfubu

I'm delighted the Bucks forced a game 7, I think the series is great experience for both teams irrespective of who progresses.
Personally I'd prefer the Bucks because of Giannis but they are quite flawed.

Parker is going to have such an interesting off-season, I'm very curious how big a contract he gets elsewhere because he's shown flashes but he is certainly a defensive liability along the Kanter/Melo lines.

3 good games tonight, I think if the Wizards force a game 7, the Raptors flaws will be magnified once more. I hope the Jazz close out the Thunder and I think the Pacers could get the win tonight, they'll be highly motivated in light of the decision from the end of the last game so it should be a cracker.

LuckyLloyd

NufcNavan wrote: »

Pacers have to win by 20 to win by 1.

Nonsense

Carcharodon

Meatyfubu wrote: »

ButtersSuki wrote: »

That's boll*x now, I'm sorry. If you're an Indiana player and you work your ass off all year you don't deserve that.

And I'd say the same if it was the other way around btw.

But I think if it was say Lance goaltending LeBron on the exact same play we know what what would happen.

Lets face it, that's a lie. You would be neither so adamant it was a goaltend nor would you care so much.

PJ's in the wash for game 6 close out

Well to be fair it’s not a case of being adamant it was a goaltend. It’s black and white, it was a goal tend and there is a truth in what Butters says, that’s the reality of it.

Meatyfubu

Carcharodon wrote: »

Well to be fair it’s not a case of being adamant it was a goaltend. It’s black and white, it was a goal tend and there is a truth in what Butters says, that’s the reality of it.

Nobody who dismissed the goaltending explicitly said it wasn't a goal tend. It was marginal and within the flow of the game was easily let go.

The point made by me and by others is that the goal tend not being called is being more harshly criticised because it was LBJ who did it and not because it was a horrifically bad oversight.

Obviously LBJ gets more media attention but the narrative that it wasn't called because it's LBJ is bull, the superstar treatment stuff is again bull and the 8 vs 5 outmatching of the Pacers is unsurprisingly also bull.

He should be held to the highest standards and being the best means you garner more media attention but these silly conflated narratives of LBJ's persona etc causing officials to make game changing decisions in his favour are tiresome and boring at this stage

ButtersSuki

Meatyfubu wrote: »

Nobody who dismissed the goaltending explicitly said it wasn't a goal tend. It was marginal and within the flow of the game was easily let go.

The point made by me and by others is that the goal tend not being called is being more harshly criticised because it was LBJ who did it and not because it was a horrifically bad oversight.

Obviously LBJ gets more media attention but the narrative that it wasn't called because it's LBJ is bull, the superstar treatment stuff is again bull and the 8 vs 5 outmatching of the Pacers is unsurprisingly also bull.

He should be held to the highest standards and being the best means you garner more media attention but these silly conflated narratives of LBJ's persona etc causing officials to make game changing decisions in his favour are tiresome and boring at this stage

Saying there’s no such thing as superstar treatment/calls in the NBA? That’s funny! Thanks for that.

I’ve listened to 4 podcasts since the game. All talk about it as being a “superstar call”. The fact the term exists should tell you something. If you don’t think superstar calls exist you’re watching a different sport than I have for the last 30+ years. It’s not just basketball, it’s all sports. You think if Joe Bloggs goes down in the penalty area in a soccer match v say Tonaldo in the same situation that the fact it’s JB V Ronaldo doesn’t impact the ref? It’s not supposed to but they’re human. It happens.

LeBron is the biggest entity in the NBA. Being LeBron in itself puts that element of doubt in s refs mind for those 50/50 calls. This wasn’t even 50/50 btw, but again being aleBrin at home in Cleveland in the play Offs it’s going to take some pretty big balls for a ref to call that on the spot - hence my harder criticism for them for not blowing it up and sending it to replay.

I didn’t make the 8 v 5 comment btw, and I don’t tend to make those kinda comments. But acting like nothing happened and LeBron doesn’t get calls is laughable.

Meatyfubu

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Saying there’s no such thing as superstar treatment/calls in the NBA? That’s funny! Thanks for that.

I’ve listened to 4 podcasts since the game. All talk about it as being a “superstar call”. The fact the term exists should tell you something. If you don’t think superstar calls exist you’re watching a different sport than I have for the last 30+ years. It’s not just basketball, it’s all sports. You think if Joe Bloggs goes down in the penalty area in a soccer match v say Tonaldo in the same situation that the fact it’s JB V Ronaldo doesn’t impact the ref? It’s not supposed to but they’re human. It happens.

LeBron is the biggest entity in the NBA. Being LeBron in itself puts that element of doubt in s refs mind for those 50/50 calls. This wasn’t even 50/50 btw, but again being aleBrin at home in Cleveland in the play Offs it’s going to take some pretty big balls for a ref to call that on the spot - hence my harder criticism for them for not blowing it up and sending it to replay.

I didn’t make the 8 v 5 comment btw, and I don’t tend to make those kinda comments. But acting like nothing happened and LeBron doesn’t get calls is laughable.

I didn't say it didn't exist, I simply don't adhere to the idea that it's such an integral part to LBJs success and it's often the reason certain calls are made.
Pushing that narrative is a bit tin foil hat for me.

I'm happy however to renege my assertions if you can show me some evidence perhaps something like that LBJ has received more marginal calls than any other player in the league based on post game reviews by some objective adjudicators. That would be interesting, anything else is just subjective speculation often pushed by those with severe confirmation bias.

I never said you made the comments, it was post which grouped the LBJ haters in one group and LBJ fanboys in another. NBA tribalism one might say.

ButtersSuki

Meatyfubu wrote: »

I didn't say it didn't exist, I simply don't adhere to the idea that it's such an integral part to LBJs success and it's often the reason certain calls are made.
Pushing that narrative is a bit tin foil hat for me.

I'm happy however to renege my assertions if you can show me some evidence perhaps something like that LBJ has received more marginal calls than any other player in the league based on post game reviews by some objective adjudicators. That would be interesting, anything else is just subjective speculation often pushed by those with severe confirmation bias.

I never said you made the comments, it was post which grouped the LBJ haters in one group and LBJ fanboys in another. NBA tribalism one might say.

Again proves the point that in the eyes of some if you say anything negative about LeBron (even after stating he’s the best player on the planet) you’re a hater.

Meatyfubu

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Again proves the point that in the eyes of some if you say anything negative about LeBron (even after stating he’s the best player on the planet) you’re a hater.

Stating LBJ is the best player in the world is analogous to saying Bolt is the fastest man in the world. It's pretty much a given even though it's not entirely falsifiable.

Given that assumption, stating LBJ is the best player in the world is not enough to offset the clear dislike you implicitly and explicitly have expressed. You're clearly biased and my previous assertions I completely maintain.

ButtersSuki

Meatyfubu wrote: »

Stating LBJ is the best player in the world is analogous to saying Bolt is the fastest man in the world. It's pretty much a given even though it's not entirely falsifiable.

Given that assumption, stating LBJ is the best player in the world is not enough to offset the clear dislike you implicitly and explicitly have expressed. You're clearly biased and my previous assertions I completely maintain.

Mother of God. There’s a difference between being objective and calling out the stuff he gets away with being a hater; but being President Of The Boards.ie LBJ Fan Club I can see how that’s a concept you clearly struggle with. You probably think he’s better than Jordan too given some of your fan boy comments.

Not arguing with you anymore. You calling me biased is hilarious considered your own biased viewpoint on the man who gave himself his own nickname. :rolleyes:

Itssoeasy

Lads LBJ is the greatest player of his generation, that's a given.

He isn't the best player ever in the NBA. I mean using the metric of NBA titles bill Russell is the best ever. The individual records are important obviously but the team award is the NBA championship. And bill Russell has one more than he has fingers at 11. That record will never be equaled or beaten.