NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2017-18

ButtersSuki

Just watched the full Boston game from last night. They have now won 2 games this series that they arguably should have lost (one far more than the other, but still). This series is over now (as is the Cavs v Raptors), it's just a matter of deciding the final score really. It really is incredible how Boston being without Hayward, Irving and Theis, and playing with an injured Smart and Brown have done this. Given how good they've been to date, I honestly don't know at this stage how they'll fare against a Cavs team with LeBron on fire.

I've been surprised at how (relatively) poor Simmons has been TBH, but he was by no means alone in making mistakes last night. Of the many turnovers/dumb plays that they had, Reddick's pass/turnover in regulation crunch time was about as bad a play as you'd expect anyone from Duke to execute. I watched it a few times and I can't figure it out - Simmons isn't looking for the ball so you have to assume he's not the intended receiver, but who is in that play? Embiid? That said, all the experience the Boston young players are getting in these Play Offs applies equally to Embiid and Simmons. They'll have a tough series loss here, but it will stand to them long term.

The Horford OOB play was perfectly executed but I'm just shocked that Philly fell for it. Stevens is for me the best OOB tactician in the game and the best at calling plays post time outs etc., but they run that exact play frequently and you'd have thought that Philly would have some defensive strategy for it? Brown came in for a lot of criticism from Stephen A. Smith after the game (who blamed him for all 3 losses) and whilst I normally ignore almost everything he says as he usually goes way too far, he did make some good points on why Philly have come up short.

Horford had a huge impact on the game and indeed in the series so far, that isn't necessarily reflected in the numbers. One thing he does really effectively because of his shooting range is draw Embiid out from the rim and therefore space the floor for the other players to take advantage of. Whilst not all that flashy, he's the anchor of their defence and a huge part of what makes them tick offensively.

As a Celtics fan, I'm honestly shocked they're on the verge of a Conf. Finals given everything that's happened this season. If they make the Finals they'll likely be hammered, but everything from now on is a bonus.

Meatyfubu

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23419398/kevin-pelton-weekly-mailbag-including-clint-capela-improvement-future-all-star

Pelton had a good mailbag this week. Quotes Morey as having said players career trajectory is generally set after year 3 in 97% of cases. Pelton disputes a bit as he explains.
Capela as Morey pointed out is one of the most improved players this year and certainly was in the pack chasing Oladipo.

Its definitely echoed in the draft as the average age of draft picks has steadily declined over time. It's pretty clear the younger the better in most cases. They'll be even younger soon when the one and done is dumped.

snotboogie

I don't get the Celtics being this scrappy undertalented team narrative. They have three top three picks out there along with Rozier who's made a huge leap. They have four B to B+ players along with multiple rock solid role players. That Brooklyn deal and two great free agent signings has meant that they are so stacked that they can do without Hayward and Kyrie, at least in the East. The sixers have the two most talented players but top to bottom the Celtics are a better team.

irishman86

Meatyfubu wrote: »

It probably comes down to the assessment of the quad. He's a max player and demands insane assets if it's fine, they'll be pretty confident like Cavs knew after a few tests IT was worse than expected.

I think the Sixers have far more to offer than the Lakers. I think PG13 should consider them too.

It could come down to him saying to Phillie he wont resign though
I read he wanted NY and i have no idea who they would have to offer

Osmosis Jones

If the Lakers offer Ingram and filler for Kawhi then I think that's better than anything Philly could put together. That being said I don't think they'll go for him.

Paul George seems set on going home to LA though.

ButtersSuki

GS put the beatdown on NO, which considering how G3 went I have to admit to being surprised by. Read today that GS's offensive metrics in 3 of their Play Off games this offseason (before today) were worse than any regular season game....they looked pretty ok tonight!

Meatyfubu

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

If the Lakers offer Ingram and filler for Kawhi then I think that's better than anything Philly could put together. That being said I don't think they'll go for him.

Paul George seems set on going home to LA though.

Do you not think Covington and Fultz would be a better package? Covington is on a nice contract for the next 5 years averaging around 12m. I think him and Fultz + whatever else is worth more than Ingram and I'd be a Laker fan

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd

Embiid is struggling in the playoffs. His PER is down to 17 from 22 and his True Shooting is down to 51% from 57% during the regular season. His usage has dropped a little bit as well, down to 30% from 32%. So he's less efficient on less offensive focus. Another one that was interesting:

https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/993161428356956161

Hopefully it proves an excellent learning experience for him and the Philly roster.

Meatyfubu

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Embiid is struggling in the playoffs. His PER is down to 17 from 22 and his True Shooting is down to 51% from 57% during the regular season. His usage has dropped a little bit as well, down to 30% from 32%. So he's less efficient on less offensive focus. Another one that was interesting:

https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/993161428356956161

Hopefully it proves an excellent learning experience for him and the Philly roster.

I find his handle in the post can often be quite loose. I noticed it again a number of times vs Boston and that readjustment once he gathers the ball certainly prevents him from taking up a better position.

The additional physicality of the playoffs and the craftiness of a defender like Horford has stifled him. I hope he comes out of the playoffs completely unscathed and can practice for the summer.

Pyjamarama

Meatyfubu wrote: »

I find his handle in the post can often be quite loose. I noticed it again a number of times vs Boston and that readjustment once he gathers the ball certainly prevents him from taking up a better position.

The additional physicality of the playoffs and the craftiness of a defender like Horford has stifled him. I hope he comes out of the playoffs completely unscathed and can practice for the summer.

His conditioning isn't where it should be either. He did miss the last 10 odd games. I don't think we can write off the impact of wearing the mask either. Its definitely affecting him, he clearly hates wearing it. I'd disagree that the physicality is impacting him much tho. I mean as good as Horford has been at times he's not dominating him physically, in fact i'd say its the opposite. Horford is doing all he can to make it more about technique than physicality. Maybe you could consider the refs letting more stuff go in the playoffs as more physical I guess, he's certainly not getting to the line as much.

It doesn't help that there is ZERO movement around Embiid when he posts up. Thats the bit I don't understand... why are they all just standing there watching him. At least make the defense have to think about what else he might do.

I think people (including me) got a little carried away with Philly. They're a good young team but they have some big flaws roster construction wise.

ButtersSuki

On the Covington+Fultz v Ingram+A.N.Other the guy with the likely highest ceiling is Ingram, so if I’m San Antonio that’s who I’d prefer. Ingram has shown flashes (he had a 20ppg run there for a while) and once he fills out a bit more and is in a better team with a better coach I think he’s likely a multi year All Star. I don’t see that for Convington, and I haven’t seen enough of Fultz to make a call on that right now. Plus do LA want another PG?

They (San An) don’t have to rush though, they can hold him for a while yet. Whilst Leonard “and his group” hold most of the aces in whatever the hell they’re doing/trying to do here, they don’t hold them all. San An should rightly seek to maximise their return here if he leaves (and it looks like that’s the likely outcome now). Sadly for them though trading a Top 5/10 guy rarely works out for the team who lets that guy go.

Meatyfubu

Pyjamarama wrote: »

His conditioning isn't where it should be either. He did miss the last 10 odd games. I don't think we can write off the impact of wearing the mask either. Its definitely affecting him, he clearly hates wearing it. I'd disagree that the physicality is impacting him much tho. I mean as good as Horford has been at times he's not dominating him physically, in fact i'd say its the opposite. Horford is doing all he can to make it more about technique than physicality. Maybe you could consider the refs letting more stuff go in the playoffs as more physical I guess, he's certainly not getting to the line as much.

It doesn't help that there is ZERO movement around Embiid when he posts up. Thats the bit I don't understand... why are they all just standing there watching him. At least make the defense have to think about what else he might do.

I think people (including me) got a little carried away with Philly. They're a good young team but they have some big flaws roster construction wise.

That was poorly phrased on my part. The part about physicality I was referring to the readjustment due to his loose handle. You're right physically he mixes it no problem with Horford.

I have always been pretty negative on Horford as his playoff impact hasn't been as good as his regular season generally, I believe last year was actually an exception but he's played really well.

Osmosis Jones

Watching highlights from the Jazz/Rockets game and even into the playoffs the way James Harden is reffed is abysmal. You can say he's just good at drawing fouls all you want, but he gets crazy calls that no other player in the league is getting. How is this a foul on Exum? Harden hooks his arm and throws the ball into his face.



And then with just over 2 minutes to go in a 10 point game he gets away with this call on Mitchell.

Osmosis Jones

Meatyfubu wrote: »

Do you not think Covington and Fultz would be a better package? Covington is on a nice contract for the next 5 years averaging around 12m. I think him and Fultz + whatever else is worth more than Ingram and I'd be a Laker fan

I think RoCo is one of the better 3 and D guys in the league but he's nothing special, and Fultz is an unknown entity at this point. He was the consensus number 1 pick but he's had a really weird, demoralising year and I can't imagine getting traded would help his mentality right now.

Ingram is proven quality, or at least as "proven" as a 20 year old can be, he even played well as a PG when Lonzo was out this year.

Pyjamarama

Philly also has the Lakers pick which it could and likely would have to use in a deal for Kawhi. They might also have to give up Dario.

Meatyfubu

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I think RoCo is one of the better 3 and D guys in the league but he's nothing special, and Fultz is an unknown entity at this point. He was the consensus number 1 pick but he's had a really weird, demoralising year and I can't imagine getting traded would help his mentality right now.

Ingram is proven quality, or at least as "proven" as a 20 year old can be, he even played well as a PG when Lonzo was out this year.

I agree Ingram is very good and improving, I really like him but I think looking at production thus far doesn't tell the bigger picture.

Covington is the type of player who would do quite well in the Spurs offense and he's under an excellent contract for the next few years. Personally I think Fultz has shown some serious flashes tbh.

On pure upside I agree Ingram has the highest ceiling but Covington in 2-3 years time assuming no major injury will be one of the better contracts in the league plus Ingram hasn't shown me enough yet to make me think the guy is a sure-fire all star.
Fultz I think will be good, he struggled this year but they have handled him quite well and he should be fine.

I think overall that yes the Lakers have the best single asset that either team is willing to part with but the Sixers definitely have the best combination of assets to get a deal done so I'd see a deal with them as being more likely and of better value.

Meatyfubu

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23384071/lebron-james-plays-rests-keep-cleveland-cavaliers-hopes-alive

LBJ in the BOTTOM 10 players(who played 20mins +) in the league based on average in-game speed and has gotten slower in the playoffs. That's a surprising stat, he's just so selective at using his energy.

Gregk961

Just logged into YouTube and was greeted by the following suggested videos(among others):

Is LeBron more clutch than Kobe?
Has Lebron cemented his legacy as the GOAT?
Has LeBron narrowed the gap with Jordan?

Firstly I have no idea what these suggestions are based on, the only thing basketball related I watch on YouTube is Bballbreakdown and maybe an odd Nb2k video, but they do regularly pop up on my feed.

Mainstream US sport coverage is really really awful, it's actually got worse lately with all these First Take rip-offs on every network getting millions of viewers. Those dogsh1t videos I mentioned above have thousands of views already and were uploaded in the last hour or two.

Listening to that type of derivitive, bottom of the barrel, verbal diarrhoea must surely rot people's brains. I feel a bit thicker having just read the titles.

Osmosis Jones

Only basketball show I watch is the Starters and that's purely entertainment

Meatyfubu

It's been mentioned before but how Michael Rappaport has any sort of platform is beyond me.

Obviously Stephen A, Skip Bayless etc the usual drivel from those guys but for me Rappaport is the worst.

Of that circuit of regular s**** talk I think Broussard is fine and I don't mind Colin Cowherd when Broussard is on with him.

ButtersSuki

Stan Van out in Detroit as per Woj. Can’t say I’m surprised after the disastrous BG trade in particular.

Osmosis Jones

SVG was out once the didn't make the playoffs, no idea why they let the Griffin trade happen when he was on such thin ice, they have one of the worst looking futures in the league now.

For Forks Sake

Boston Philly game 4 just tipped off.

ButtersSuki

Shannon Sharpe (admittedly not an ex-player or a basketball first journalist) to me is the worst, closely followed by Nick Wright (who I was sadly introduced to by someone on here!). Both of those guys are worse than Skip or Stephen A. I think the hate for Skip & Stephen A. is more obvious because you're exposed to them more - if you saw as much of Sharpe and Wright you'd likely hate them more IMO!

ButtersSuki

No team has ever come back from 3-0 to win in NBA Play Off history. That said, guess which team has the shortest odds ever of doing so? Philly. It's been such a strange series, Philly could could conceivably be 2-1 up at this stage.

For Forks Sake

ButtersSuki wrote: »

No team has ever come back from 3-0 to win in NBA Play Off history. That said, guess which team has the shortest odds ever of doing so? Philly. It's been such a strange series, Philly could could conceivably be 2-1 up at this stage.

Their wanton stupidity in the last game cost them. Covingtons repeated stupidity could be the losing of this one if he's left on the court.

Shane Larkin hurt that shoulder when he hit Embiid on a screen there.

https://twitter.com/CelticsNewsNBA/status/993619124667539456

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Shannon Sharpe (admittedly not an ex-player or a basketball first journalist) to me is the worst, closely followed by Nick Wright (who I was sadly introduced to by someone on here!). Both of those guys are worse than Skip or Stephen A. I think the hate for Skip & Stephen A. is more obvious because you're exposed to them more - if you saw as much of Sharpe and Wright you'd likely hate them more IMO!

Yeah both of those guys are awful, I think i might have mentioned Nick Wright here a few months back (im truly sorry!!). All these guys get serious air time on all the big networks, it's crazy.

"Let's get one guy who loves LeBron/Tom Brady/Tiger Woods/whoever and one guy who hates LeBron/etc and let them at it for a few hours. Oh ya add in a hot ethnic pair of jugs who's opinion holds no weight to sit between them..NEW SHOW CREATED"

Osmosis Jones

Refs took over the first half here, 4 Celtics on 3 fouls each halfway through the second quarter.

For Forks Sake

Simmons finding a lot more space tonight with McConnell (who's lively) playing PG.