NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2017-18

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Yup, I guess they can do that, but tbh I don't think that in itself is going to alter all that much given the roster - it's not like they're getting Stevens, Pop or Spoelstra. To add to their problems, they have no draft picks this year.

Well, it seems we're agreeing that they won't be able to restructure the roster. I'm not particularly wedded to blaming the coach, but he has been there seven years and you never know how a new set of eyes can change things for the better. Ultimately, as much as it may not feel great, I think they'll be forced to proceed as is.

BQQ

Anyone see that Kevin Love 3 chalked off in the second quarter?

That’s a loophole that needs to be closed or guys are just gonna go “sh!t that guy is wide open, I better push this dude beside me and it won’t count”

shamrock55

There's alot of knowledgeable basketball fans on here so can someone explain to me what is it with the raptors when it comes to playing the Cavs,I know LeBron has been excellent in this series but still they really have Toronto's number even winning 2-1 in the regular season.
I really hoped the raps would go far this year too,very disappointing to go out 4-0

ButtersSuki

Some fun Raptors/DeRozan facts:

• First 1 seed team to be swept since the League went to 16 team Play Off format in 1983-84
• 10th straight Play Off Raptors loss to the Cavs - longest streak in NBA history of one team's dominance over another in Play Off basketball
• DeRozan's 3 worst +/- games of the year were Games 4, 3 and 2 respectively
• DeRozan didn't score a single 3 this series...or the one in 2017....or 2016 (I haven't fact checked that one myself and it seems odd, but was given as a stat in one of the pods today.

By the way, if you think I was being hard on them, critics overnight/today were much harder. Some really heavy criticism across the board - and not just from the lunatic fringe. Consensus was they quit. Casey's post game comments were pretty damning of his team's effort too - not that I think a coach should ever say that (unless maybe you're Pop, who you know is using it as a motivational tool for next game. Problem here is Casey is not Pop, and there's no next game).



LeBron:

• The only players in NBA history to be part of a sweep in a best-of-seven series in more than two consecutive seasons are LeBron James.........and teammates of LeBron James. I was pretty shocked to read that tbh.
• Good feature on LeBron's in-game resting techniques on espn.com (can't find the link now, apologies) from Brian Windhorst (the man who's seen more LeBron James play than anyone else alive apparently) that I read earlier today. Very clever in fairness.

Good comment on Open Floor too re. as great as LeBron's performances have been, it's been against the Raptors....these guys are no Utah '98 (for the Jordan comparison), and it's Round 2 of the Play Offs.

LuckyLloyd

And so we end up with the Warriors vs Houston; and likely the Cavs vs Boston

After all of the turbulence of the regular season and a lively first round of the playoffs, we end up with the matchups the vast majority of analysts would have predicted last October...

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And so we end up with the Warriors vs Houston; and likely the Cavs vs Boston

After all of the turbulence of the regular season and a lively first round of the playoffs, we end up with the matchups the vast majority of analysts would have predicted last October...

To be fair, no one would have predicted Boston to be there after six minutes of the season opener, and certainly not before the Play Offs when Kylie went down.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

To be fair, no one would have predicted Boston to be there after six minutes of the season opener, and certainly not before the Play Offs when Kylie went down.

No I suppose not, but step forth Terry Rozier, who has been very very good the last few weeks. The fundamental point here is that the best teams remain the best teams:

- because of the greatest starting line up every assembled
- because of LeBron
- because of excellent coaching in Boston that makes a lot from a little as necessary
- because of an electric back court combo and a system that suits the talents presently assembled in Houston

And the rest are either fundamentally flawed or bereft of enough talent or both. Looking forward to next season, the only real obvious power shift I can see happening involves the movement of LeBron, though he'll be 34 next year. The Warriors will be the Warriors; the Celtics will have the best coach; and Houston will surely complete a deal with Paul. Maybe the movements of George and Leonard will create some potentially interesting situations, but Minny, New Orleans and Oklahoma demonstrated already this year that adding a star or two isn't enough in the present landscape on its own.

Not to suggest any of this is boring of course. But it's three of four conference finalists from a year ago and potentially the fourth straight finals match up despite the frenzy last summer.

What do you guys think of rozier as a player is he legit or a product of Stephens? What other player would you compare him to value wise?

I'm also curious about brown and Tatum I'd say the way Tatum is looking having just turned 20 he's borderline untouchable at this point

LuckyLloyd

Marcel Delightful Viewfinder wrote: »

What do you guys think of rozier as a player is he legit or a product of Stephens? What other player would you compare him to value wise?

I'm also curious about brown and Tatum I'd say the way Tatum is looking having just turned 20 he's borderline untouchable at this point

Sample size on Rozier is really small. He's started 27 games in his career, which is a very small period of time to judge a player's value. In the playoffs thus far he's been really great. Everything about his game has looked extremely positive on the highest per game minutes and usage of his career.

One one level, it might not matter if he's a product of the coach / system or the real deal so long as he does the business for Boston. He's under contract next year and restricted the year after, so if they think he's capable of carrying the load they can potentially look to move Kyrie and stack the deck heavily with the cap room cleared as a result.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sample size on Rozier is really small. He's started 27 games in his career, which is a very small period of time to judge a player's value. In the playoffs thus far he's been really great. Everything about his game has looked extremely positive on the highest per game minutes and usage of his career.

One one level, it might not matter if he's a product of the coach / system or the real deal so long as he does the business for Boston. He's under contract next year and restricted the year after, so if they think he's capable of carrying the load they can potentially look to move Kyrie and stack the deck heavily with the cap room cleared as a result.

Not a chance that's happening. Not a chance.

They'll move Rozier before Kyrie (unless the injuries continue, that's the one caveat). Kyrie is a Top 10 player in the league, Rozier as you say has had a good stretch.

I think some team will likely offer him something stupid if he continues this way.

This was the exact topic on a couple of pods over the last few days. Not one person advocated moving Kyrie. Not one.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Not a chance that's happening. Not a chance.

They'll move Rozier before Kyrie (unless the injuries continue, that's the one caveat). Kyrie is a Top 10 player in the league, Rozier as you say has had a good stretch.

I think some team will likely offer him something stupid if he continues this way.

This was the exact topic on a couple of pods over the last few days. Not one person advocated moving Kyrie. Not one.

Meh, Danny Ainge has surprised people before.

For Forks Sake

shamrock55 wrote: »

There's alot of knowledgeable basketball fans on here so can someone explain to me what is it with the raptors when it comes to playing the Cavs,I know LeBron has been excellent in this series but still they really have Toronto's number even winning 2-1 in the regular season.
I really hoped the raps would go far this year too,very disappointing to go out 4-0

Getting a no.1 seed counts for nothing (Atlanta a couple of years back were the same), it's what you do after those 82 games are
played.

Where Toronto go from here is intriguing, they have a lot of money tied up on 5 players through the end of 2020 season. And I see Powell is due a salary increase from $1.4m to $9.4m next season (and the next three at $10m+) so there's even more flexibility lost. Does that roster have the psyche to find the extra effort for playoff basketball (look at Playoff LeBron for a prime example) - I don't think so - they're coasting.

They've never drafted particularly well (Cabocio in 2014 - "two years away from being two years away."- being a particular zinger, especially when Clint Capela and Nikola Jokic were still on the board.) granted they've improved a bit lately with the likes of Anunoby and Siakam but can't see either of them being superstars.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, Danny Ainge has surprised people before.

The hot takes on this thread just get crazier and crazier.

I'm not debating he hasn't surprised people, but this is a pretty big stretch.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The hot takes on this thread just get crazier and crazier.

I'm not debating he hasn't surprised people, but this is a pretty big stretch.

The range of possibilities in the NBA are large. Kyrie gets to opt out at the end of next season, and will be looking for a max deal.

Rozier is on 15% of his salary next year and can be had for a qualifying offer the following year.

IF the Celtics think Rozier's last 11 games are what he is capable of long term I am confident they will probe all their options. That's how Ainge has run their organisation for over a decade - never afraid of the big move.

For Forks Sake

The only concern for the Celtics (medium term) is what of the likes of Rozier/Brown/Tatum next season when Hayward and Irving are back - these kids have shown they're legitimate NBA players this season- whether they're going to be happy medium term going back to being backup options remains to be seen. That said, Celtics roster when fully fit has some amount of depth to it.

ButtersSuki

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The hot takes on this thread just get crazier and crazier.

I'm not debating he hasn't surprised people, but this is a pretty big stretch.

I mean I would say kyre is untouchable but if say rozier turns out to be the real deal and the pelicans will swap kyre for ad you'd have to consider

Pyjamarama

Yeah but zero chance the pelicans would do that swap and negative chance that Kyrie would sign for them either.

I don't think its complete insanity to think that Danny would trade Kyrie if he's blown away with an offer tho. Last year people prob though Isiah was untouchable too. If Danny thinks that Kyries knees might be shot and some team offers him a dumb deal he'll take that deal. He's the best GM in the league for a reason. Best GM + Best coach = constantly good celtics. I still think they're a way off challenging Golden State but the Warriors won't be around forever and Boston and Philly look very well placed to be the two big dogs in a year or two.

Osmosis Jones

Stevens is famous for making average players look like stars, I'm guessing Rozier is another one of these lads who won't look nearly as good if he goes somewhere else. Stevens even managed to make Evan Turner look like a 17m player ffs

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Stevens is famous for making average players look like stars, I'm guessing Rozier is another one of these lads who won't look nearly as good if he goes somewhere else. Stevens even managed to make Evan Turner look like a 17m player ffs

Well part of that was Stevens and his system (a la Pop and his) making a player look better than he is, but most of it was the summer of '16 crazy inflation in salaries as a direct result of everyone assuming the cap was only going one way. There were many contracts given out that summer that look insane now, Turner is not by any means the only one.

Both coaches have this talent for making average/role players look like they have increased upside for when they leave in expanded roles/with new teams etc. It rarely works out as such.

Also it's worth noteing turner was signed with the intention of putting him a compleatly different role which seems stupid

764dak

Shaq and Barkley argued about the Raptors:

For Forks Sake

Number of votes for Stevens for Coach of the Year.....zero :eek:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23455672/brad-stevens-coach-boston-celtics-downplays-not-receiving-single-vote-peers-coach-year-award

For Forks Sake

764dak wrote: »

Shaq and Barkley argued about the Raptors:

Chuck to Shaq : "I didn't have Dwayne Wade and Kobe Bryant carrying me up and down the court"

For Forks Sake

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Number of votes for Stevens for Coach of the Year.....zero :eek:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23455672/brad-stevens-coach-boston-celtics-downplays-not-receiving-single-vote-peers-coach-year-award

That's a joke

2smiggy

mad finish to the game last night, smart trying to deliberately miss a free throw, but ends up scoring !!

Paladonia

Trying to decide if I should renew my League Pass subscription until the end of the Finals.

I've been watching the playoffs, but usually only the early games (or evening here). Looking at the schedule for the Conference Finals, every game (with the exception of Celtics - Cavs Game 1) is at 1:30/2am. I'd imagine the Finals will be similar.

I can't even watch the condensed game on my morning commute as they don't go up until minimum 3 hours after the game ends. If I leave it any later than that I'm definitely seeing spoilers.

Decisions, decisions...

ButtersSuki

Paladonia wrote: »

Trying to decide if I should renew my League Pass subscription until the end of the Finals.

I've been watching the playoffs, but usually only the early games (or evening here). Looking at the schedule for the Conference Finals, every game (with the exception of Celtics - Cavs Game 1) is at 1:30/2am. I'd imagine the Finals will be similar.

I can't even watch the condensed game on my morning commute as they don't go up until minimum 3 hours after the game ends. If I leave it any later than that I'm definitely seeing spoilers.

Decisions, decisions...

I'd do it personally. The only games I can ever really motivate myself to get up for (apart from the odd regular season game) at the time are the Conf. Finals and the Finals. I am howvere nerdy enough to watch full games back even if I know the score, but I understand not many people can do that.

ButtersSuki

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Number of votes for Stevens for Coach of the Year.....zero :eek:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23455672/brad-stevens-coach-boston-celtics-downplays-not-receiving-single-vote-peers-coach-year-award

Marcel Delightful Viewfinder wrote: »

That's a joke

Casey could easily be fired/replaced (whatever you want to call it in the coming weeks and The Ringer have already speculated he'll struggle to find another head coaching job if so. I'm not saying either would be right, but that's the reality of it. Stevens not even getting a vote smacks of being pretty petty TBH. He'll be the journalists Coach of the Year I suspect.

ButtersSuki

Boston - Philly was such a strange series really, not your typical 4-1 gentleman's sweep by any means. Philly could easily have won all 4 games they lost but for silly turnovers, missed dunks, unnecessary techs, poor coaching decisions etc.

Lots of lessons for Philly to learn from.

I'm 0-2 on Boston this offseason, and I'm a Celtics fan. I can't however see them getting past Cleveland.

McLoughlin

I'm a Celtics fan as well didn't expect them to reach this far. My hope now is they don't get swept and at least give Lebron a bit of a challenge