NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2017-18

Carcharodon

rushfan wrote: »

This whole Kawahi thing reminds me of Nicholas Anelka ( for this of you who might remember him) of Arsenal fame. Scored a heap of goals when they won the league in '98, listened to his advisers ( his brothers) , transferred to Madrid, and his career petered out from there, he ended up with feck all from a very promising career. Would hate to see Kawahi do this but I feel his "advisers " don't have his best interests at heart. Hope I'm wrong!!

I totally get your analogy and it’s good but to play the annoying internet troll... didn’t he win premiership again with Chelsea, champions league with Real Madrid, maybe la liga, I think he also won seire a with Juventus, although I can’t even remember him playing there, Turkish league with Fenerbahçe, couple of FA Cups as well, European Championship with France plus a whole lot of money from all this clubs
I loved Anelka, pure quality, pity he was such a head case

Carcharodon

On the whole Leonard trade, I think it really is solid work by Pop and the Spurs. They were in a no win situation and really made the best out of it with a really good trade considering the circumstances.
Pop won’t be coaching too much longer so I think he wants to be competitive these last few years and this trade makes them that.
To use game of thrones analogy, Kawahi has just been sent north of the wall, quality work by Spurs ...lol

titan18

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The Spurs were one of the oldest teams (if the not the oldest team) in the League last year. They'll all (obviously) be a year older next Play Offs. Parker is gone. Manu (who's 41 this month btw) is now the only one left from the '14 Championship Team. Gasol has just turned 38.


I think a lot of last year was played with emotions and "he's coming back' etc. I'll eat my hat if they finish 4th next year.



And btw, I'm a massive fan of Pop and the Spurs organisation. I'm not saying any of this out of spite.

I know they're old, but Parker gone isn't a hindrance to them tbf. Manu is a role player now and not a starter, and Gasol doesn't play a huge amount of minutes for a starter.

Aldridge is good and was very good last year in putting the team on his back. Gay is good. DeRozan is very good. I think Murray will push on again next year and he's already an excellent defender.

I think they stack up quite well with the likes of Trail Blazers in the West which is going to put them in the 4th to 8th spot really and won't have a lot of games separating those teams anyway.

You'd imagine Warriors, Rockets and Lakers are top 3 and then maybe Thunder are the best of the rest especially without Melo now but there won't be a lot between the likes of Trail Blazers, Thunder, Jazz, Spurs, Pelicans, Timberwolves,Nuggets etc. Mavs should be better too this year with the Jordan trade and if Doncic is as good as advertised, they'll be battling for a spot in the playoffs too.

I think Pop is the biggest things for Spurs though, he's worth several games extra over any other coach in the teams they're competing against for spots 4 and down.


Now, in the latest news, and as a Thunder fan, Melo's gone We might actually be good this year now, and hopefully Schroeder is willing to play as 6th man and lead the second unit. Biggest issue will be the lack of scoring of the starting unit as Roberson and Grant offer very little so really putting it all on the back of Westbrook and George there. Any off nights by either of them probably means the Thunder aren't scoring a lot, although the defense should be excellent with having George, Roberson and Grant starting. Bench unit should be stronger if Schroeder leads it with him and Noel added and some development from Ferguson.

ButtersSuki

Multiple reports (all the usual sources) coming out Kawhi will sit out entire season OR not sign at all, thus rescinding the entire trade. One reporter from Toronto on The Lowe Post this morning saying the feeling on the ground that he won't sign is "very real". Even if he plans to sit out, he should still sign and then feign injury or do whatever the hell he's doing, but if he doesn't sign we're in unprecedented territory.



Lowest maintenance athlete in Pro-Sports right?

McLoughlin

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Multiple reports (all the usual sources) coming out Kawhi will sit out entire season OR not sign at all, thus rescinding the entire trade. One reporter from Toronto on The Lowe Post this morning saying the feeling on the ground that he won't sign is "very real". Even if he plans to sit out, he should still sign and then feign injury or do whatever the hell he's doing, but if he doesn't sign we're in unprecedented territory.



Lowest maintenance athlete in Pro-Sports right?

It was mentioned on ESPN The Jump that it's possible under the new CBA that if he sits out a year his free agency could be delayed a year as Kawhi has to play a year before he can be a free agent. Who knows what will happens ? Like you said umprecedented terrority

titan18

McLoughlin wrote: »

It was mentioned on ESPN The Jump that it's possible under the new CBA that if he sits out a year his free agency could be delayed a year as Kawhi has to play a year before he can be a free agent. Who knows what will happens ? Like you said umprecedented terrority

Afaik, that is the case. Imagine there'd be challenges and everything but that is in the CBA and players had signed up to it.

ButtersSuki

Beasley to the Lakers....I actually think he's under-rated but the knucklehead potential is very strong in this one. Could go either way......but whatever way it goes it's another strange signing.

LuckyLloyd

It's not massively strange imo. They've filled out the roster with one year deals on a combination of streaky players that can handle a load of work on their "on" nights (Stephenson, Beasley, McGee) and / or players who can be very valuable across a playoff series (Rondo / Pope). They now have 33.5m expiring next year; and Deng's 18m comes off the following year. Of what's expiring over the next two years, possibly only Ingram and Pope will end up being really key pieces they want to extend.

The on floor mix maybe is weird, but they have a lot of athleticism and talent to get them through the grind of the regular season. I have a feeling that the aim is to do enough to get to the playoffs with LeBron playing more limited minutes than he did in Cleveland and then banking on him dragging them through a round or two. Players like Rondo, McGee and Beasley could well pay off huge if they get that far.

Ball / Rondo
Pope / Stephenson / Hart
James / Ingram
Kuzma / Beasley
McGee / Zubac

Obviously lineups can be fluid as James moves around a bit, Beasley can play the 3 or 4 but it's not terrible.

The real strength of it is that Ball, Kuzma and Ingram could see a lot of minutes on the floor with a combination of James, Pope and McGee anchoring them. This could be excellent for their development. Kuzma shot well from 3 last year and Pope also shoots well. The shooters are there and I think the mix will be better than is being discussed.

Who know's exactly what the thinking is, but they'll have plenty of room to get involved in a major deal next year, and further flexibility the year after. Trading a bunch of assets away to dispose of Deng now or get Kawhi now doesn't really make sense. There's a longer term path to victory here if Ingram / Kuzma / Ball can develop positively and they get Kawhi next year, etc. In the meantime they've acquired talented experienced bodies on one year deals. I think that's logical at a high level.

bot43

The London game - impossible to get tickets for I guess? Any idea when the pre sale/general sale starts?

ButtersSuki

bot43 wrote: »

The London game - impossible to get tickets for I guess? Any idea when the pre sale/general sale starts?

Pretty easy actually. There's usually a pre-sale registration link comes out well before ticket sales date and if you're on that you're usually ok. As for Knicks v Wizards.....doesn't really have the same feel or star talent as this year's Boston v 76ers game does it?

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's not massively strange imo. They've filled out the roster with one year deals on a combination of streaky players that can handle a load of work on their "on" nights (Stephenson, Beasley, McGee) and / or players who can be very valuable across a playoff series (Rondo / Pope). They now have 33.5m expiring next year; and Deng's 18m comes off the following year. Of what's expiring over the next two years, possibly only Ingram and Pope will end up being really key pieces they want to extend.

The on floor mix maybe is weird, but they have a lot of athleticism and talent to get them through the grind of the regular season. I have a feeling that the aim is to do enough to get to the playoffs with LeBron playing more limited minutes than he did in Cleveland and then banking on him dragging them through a round or two. Players like Rondo, McGee and Beasley could well pay off huge if they get that far.

Ball / Rondo
Pope / Stephenson / Hart
James / Ingram
Kuzma / Beasley
McGee / Zubac

Obviously lineups can be fluid as James moves around a bit, Beasley can play the 3 or 4 but it's not terrible.

The real strength of it is that Ball, Kuzma and Ingram could see a lot of minutes on the floor with a combination of James, Pope and McGee anchoring them. This could be excellent for their development. Kuzma shot well from 3 last year and Pope also shoots well. The shooters are there and I think the mix will be better than is being discussed.

Who know's exactly what the thinking is, but they'll have plenty of room to get involved in a major deal next year, and further flexibility the year after. Trading a bunch of assets away to dispose of Deng now or get Kawhi now doesn't really make sense. There's a longer term path to victory here if Ingram / Kuzma / Ball can develop positively and they get Kawhi next year, etc. In the meantime they've acquired talented experienced bodies on one year deals. I think that's logical at a high level.

I'd mostly agree with your medium-long term perspectives, but I was specifically referring to the bit in bold.


I do think we could have some interesting fight potential next year with some of these rosters.......Wizards v Lakers for example could be interesting if it's a blow out either way, with a fight as likely to happen between players from the same team as against the opposition. :pac:

ButtersSuki

BTW, Kawhi still hasn't signed in Toronto........he has until Friday (I think, open to correction on that).

For Forks Sake

ButtersSuki wrote: »

BTW, Kawhi still hasn't signed in Toronto........he has until Friday (I think, open to correction on that).

Anyone carried out a medical on him yet,?

ButtersSuki

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Anyone carried out a medical on him yet,?

Medical is relatively basic, he’d pass even if he did little or no exercise for the last 4 months. You’d not even be able to tell he has any injury, let alone the extent of his (alleged) injury in a standard medical.

McLoughlin

Kawhi and green had a medical last friday

Raptors beat reporter spoke about it

https://twitter.com/JLew1050/status/1021501035779706881

ButtersSuki

McLoughlin wrote: »

Kawhi and green had a medical last friday

Raptors beat reporter spoke about it

https://twitter.com/JLew1050/status/1021501035779706881

Hadn’t seen that, thanks for sharing. My point however was he hadn’t officially signed, read somewhere today League still haven’t been informed trade is complete. Could be minor point or could be major, who knows?!

bot43

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Pretty easy actually. There's usually a pre-sale registration link comes out well before ticket sales date and if you're on that you're usually ok. As for Knicks v Wizards.....doesn't really have the same feel or star talent as this year's Boston v 76ers game does it?

Im a Wizards fan so yes it does

ButtersSuki

bot43 wrote: »

Im a Wizards fan so yes it does

I didn't know such a thing existed in Ireland.....:D


Ah, I forget Jordan spent some time there....was that what started it?

ButtersSuki

As per Dunc'd On, SA gave Toronto $5m in cash in the Kawhi deal too. They really wanted rid of him.

bot43

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I didn't know such a thing existed in Ireland.....:D


Ah, I forget Jordan spent some time there....was that what started it?

Nope. Family living outside DC and have visited plenty and been to games.

ButtersSuki

bot43 wrote: »

Nope. Family living outside DC and have visited plenty and been to games.

You've seen some crap basketball then! :pac:


Joking aside, they're such a badly run franchise. The Wall deal, singing Howard AND Daddy's Little Girl etc. Don't think they even know themselves what they're doing.

bot43

Tbh I know nothing about the machinations of the franchise. I like watching basketball and they are the team I saw first so that was that. I guess I drew a short straw with them. Even with my limited (that’s being kind) knowledge of the game they frustrate the hell out of me.

Wall is a hero though.

ButtersSuki

bot43 wrote: »

Tbh I know nothing about the machinations of the franchise. I like watching basketball and they are the team I saw first so that was that. I guess I drew a short straw with them. Even with my limited (that’s being kind) knowledge of the game they frustrate the hell out of me.

Wall is a hero though.

Oh dear......now you really have my sympathies.


That said, there are some on here who not so long ago said Wall was better than Curry. He's better than Seth alright, but that's not who they meant.

bot43

Why so? Genuine question. Seems a pretty class player to me.

ButtersSuki

bot43 wrote: »

Why so? Genuine question. Seems a pretty class player to me.

I'm not saying he's crap obviously; he's very good, but hasn't really cracked the top tier and become truly elite.


His game hasn't progressed or developed in the way you'd hope it might considering he was a No. 1 pick.



He's never been a part of any Team USA Teams, as in Tournament Teams. Worse players than Wall have made those teams (Faried for example, different position but the point holds) so you'd have to ask why? Is it just talent (US are loaded at the guard spots) or is it attitude etc. - more on that later.



He's a 5 time All Star but with one major caveat - he's in the East. He'd likely not have one All Star Game if he played in the West - that's not me being a hater before that's thrown up again, but even the biggest John Wall fans would surely agree to that given the Guard Talent in the West?



He's on a max contract that he's clearly overpaid on and it's going to cripple them as a team going forward. Here's what he's going to be paid this year and for the next 5 years:

2017-18 - $18.063 million
2018-19 - $19.169 million
2019-20 - $37.800 million
2020-21 - $40.824 million
2021-22 - $43.848 million
2022-23 - $46.872 million


That $46m in 2022/23 is insane, as are any of the years 19-20 onwards tbh. People complain about the Chris Paul contract - this is worse (as in will be in that final year when Wall is into his 30s). He's not at the level whereby if he's your best player you're a contender, but he's being paid at a level that he's effectively untradeable (unless Sacramento want him :pac:), and as a player by them I can only see a decline in his athleticism which is a big part of his game.


And then there's the attitude.......do I even need to expand on that?

ButtersSuki

D Wade to China?

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/07/24/dwyane-wade-free-agency-contract-offer-china
More than he'll make in the US, and with his Li-Ning deal it would make sense. Though why the Chinese would want to pay this kinda money for an older, fatter, slower version of his is beyond me personally......I guess if he wants to go good luck to him, but the basketball is sheeeeeeet. Jimmer was averaging almost 40 there for a while. One thing that would suit Wade however is there's no D in China.



Kawhi finding out the hard way that his behaviour can and will cost him:

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/07/24/kawhi-leonard-jordan-brand-free-agency-2019

764dak

Niles Crane

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Kawhi finding out the hard way that his behaviour can and will cost him:

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/07/24/kawhi-leonard-jordan-brand-free-agency-2019

Ridiculous that Leonard and his representatives thought he could get a better endorsement deal from Jordan than what they offered.He doesn't engage at all with the media and he has zero personality (publicly at least) unless your out there selling yourself and talking to the media why would any company pay you serious money to endorse their products.

ButtersSuki

764dak wrote: »

He was on some talking head show last week and he tried to make a pun on Da Dwight House, which got tumbleweed when he said it first and then doubled down on it and tried to explain it. He’s like a 15 year old trying too hard to be popular in a new school.

rushfan

For those of you who are interested, Steve Kerr passed through Dublin airport earlier today. One of my colleagues got a photo with him, absolute gent, I believe.