RTB Case went in my favor - Is it worth to follow up now?

Skyrimaddict

Hi,

I had an RTB adjudication in my favor a few weeks back (finally) in regards a tenant who overheld and owed rent.

The documents were sent out to his new house I am told showing what he owes and to move out etc.

What happens now? Does he get chased by the RTB for the money owed (5K ish) or do I need to chase him up?

Any idea on if this doesnt get paid is court an option, and is it worth it. House was given back eventually and didnt need any work done at all bar re-painting.

theteal

The RTB don't chase anybody.

Iirc you need to got to court to get the sheriff to seek recompense. It'll all come down to cost effectiveness to you as to how you proceed. This is where you might have heard of landlords paying overholding tenants to move out. The system is very broken.

Cuddlesworth

You need to get a solicitor.

I love Sean nos

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

The documents were sent out to his new house I am told showing what he owes and to move out etc.

Just curious, do you get furnished with proof of the above? Copies of the documents, proof of postage, etc.

If not, the tenant could drag the following process out by claiming non-receipt.

Ms Doubtfire1

The RTB just put you in the right. you now have to get a sheriff to follow up.

Cuddlesworth

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

The RTB just put you in the right. you now have to get a sheriff to follow up.

Nope, the RTB decision is not legally binding. You have to take your RTB order to a actual court, who can then order enforcement.

Skyrimaddict

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Just curious, do you get furnished with proof of the above? Copies of the documents, proof of postage, etc.

If not, the tenant could drag the following process out by claiming non-receipt.

The RTB will not give me a copy of the letter sent as is has the tenants new address on it, which I did not have. No idea how they got it mind you.

The will only verify that it was delivered to his new address via registered post.

I think all other documents had been sent to the house in question, the tenant was not at the hearing and there was lost of post inside the house when he posted me back the keys.

Cuddlesworth

I think 5k is worth chasing btw, pretty sure you can claim costs as well when taking him to Court.

Skyrimaddict

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

The RTB just put you in the right. you now have to get a sheriff to follow up.

Thanks. Thought that myself.

Do the costs of recovery if that is what it comes to come from me, or him?

Cuddlesworth

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Thanks. Thought that myself.

Do the costs of recovery if that is what it comes to come from me, or him?

You can to go to the District court with the RTB order for enforcement. I'm not a solicitor and its been a long time since anybody I know has gotten to that stage, but usually a solictors letter and summons for a court date leads to a settlement for a person who is employed.

I love Sean nos

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You can to go to the District court with the RTB order for enforcement. I'm not a solicitor and its been a long time since anybody I know has gotten to that stage, but usually a solictors letter and summons for a court date leads to a settlement for a person who is employed.

That's the big decider here OP; ability to pay. Is the offender employed? If he's not, you'll spend more money on enforcement via the court and all you'll get back is €5 a week for the next 23 years, assuming that he doesn't miss any payments.

Skyrimaddict

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I think 5k is worth chasing btw, pretty sure you can claim costs as well when taking him to Court.

Well, after he gets his 1K deposit back and then I have to refund him for purchases made it will likely be 3.4K

Just dont want to end up fighting with someone and it costing me more money, the house is returned and was in good nick, but I still wish to get my money owed back.

Graham

The RTB have a FAQ on the subject of enforcement of determination:

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/enforcement-of-orders/faqs

TheChizler

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Well, after he gets his 1K deposit back and then I have to refund him for purchases made it will likely be 3.4K

Just dont want to end up fighting with someone and it costing me more money, the house is returned and was in good nick, but I still wish to get my money owed back.

He owes you 5 k but you have to return the deposit and reimburse him first? Why doesn't he just owe you the net balance?

Cuddlesworth

TheChizler wrote: »

He owes you 5 k but you have to return the deposit and reimburse him first? Why doesn't he just owe you the net balance?

Makes no sense to me too why you would hand him a penny if the net balance is him owing you.

TheChizler

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Makes no sense to me too why you would hand him a penny if the net balance is him owing you.

I'm presuming it's something like deposit can only be used for damage or unpaid rent, and overholding doesn't technically count as unpaid rent as it wasn't an agreed term? Would still owe payment for the overhead period but as compensation, separate from the deposit situation.

Speculating here, please correct me.

Skyrimaddict

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Makes no sense to me too why you would hand him a penny if the net balance is him owing you.

It was just the way the report was phrased. It listed my financial part first, then in last article on report it said I had to return deposit and pay for items which tenant bought with receipts.

Skyrimaddict

TheChizler wrote: »

I'm presuming it's something like deposit can only be used for damage or unpaid rent, and overholding doesn't technically count as unpaid rent as it wasn't an agreed term? Would still owe payment for the overhead period but as compensation, separate from the deposit situation.

Speculating here, please correct me.

I think you are correct, a deposit is not rent and can only be held for monies owed.

I imagine a quid pro quo will be done, reduce his dept in lieu and all that

There isn't chance in hell I'd return a cent of the deposit, not in a million years. It's likely the only money you are going to see towards the costs.

I have a feeling you must be interpreting the RTB wrong also, the deposit is just for this type of thing.

GGTrek

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Makes no sense to me too why you would hand him a penny if the net balance is him owing you.

It was just the way the report was phrased. It listed my financial part first, then in last article on report it said I had to return deposit and pay for items which tenant bought with receipts.

I do not know why some adjudicators cannot show the net value like some orders coming from tribunal, for example this one where the calculation of the net is made in the order itself: https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/determination-orders/tr0517-002359-dr0317-33007-order.pdf?sfvrsn=0 
This is probably similar to the determination order you received (no netting calculation performed): https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/determination-orders/tr0417-002293-order.pdf?sfvrsn=0 In this case for example let's consider just point 3 (tenant owes 6,500 euros in rent arrears to the landlord) and point 5 (landlord owes 1,300 euros to the tenant). Let's not consider point 4 (which is the rent to be paid for the possible overholding period after the termination date set by the tribunal). This means that the tenant owes the landlord 6,500 - 1,300 = 5,200 euros in rent arrears that have not been covered by the deposit. It is for this sum that the landlord should chase the tenant in circuit court (not district court as specified in some post).

Having said this, I had an RTB case where two joint tenants owed me around 1k after discounting the deposit, it was not even worth chasing, since one of the two had run away from Ireland and the other one was in a really low paid job. That is why it is fundamental that when you collect the references you receive their work contract/payslip with their employer and their PPS number. In this way you will be able to evaluate if the debt is worth chasing. I would suggest the OP to read the following: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/enforcement_of_judgments.html

The most likely outcome for a tenant with no easy to identify assets (car, home, ...) is an instalment order based on the tenant's salary size. That is why it is fundamental that only tenants with decent income are considered at referencing stage. If the OP tenant is on social welfare or on a very low salary, at the moment it is not worth chasing. However if the Civil Debt (Procedures) Act 2015 is finally commenced, depending on judge attitude, even social welfare and low salaried tenants could be chased and attachment of earnings requested.

Claw Hammer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You can to go to the District court with the RTB order for enforcement. I'm not a solicitor and its been a long time since anybody I know has gotten to that stage, but usually a solictors letter and summons for a court date leads to a settlement for a person who is employed.

It is the Circuit Court for enforcement, not the District Court.

Skyrimaddict

Alejandra Petite Okra wrote: »

There isn't chance in hell I'd return a cent of the deposit, not in a million years. It's likely the only money you are going to see towards the costs.

I have a feeling you must be interpreting the RTB wrong also, the deposit is just for this type of thing.

Hi,

No it just lays it out in a who owes what way, i assume he must pay me first before deposit is given back mind you.

Claw Hammer

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi,

No it just lays it out in a who owes what way, i assume he must pay me first before deposit is given back mind you.

You will get a judgement for the nett amount.

DREDDLOCKED

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi,

I had an RTB adjudication in my favor a few weeks back (finally) in regards a tenant who overheld and owed rent.

The documents were sent out to his new house I am told showing what he owes and to move out etc.

What happens now? Does he get chased by the RTB for the money owed (5K ish) or do I need to chase him up?

Any idea on if this doesnt get paid is court an option, and is it worth it. House was given back eventually and didnt need any work done at all bar re-painting.

Where is your house based?????

Skyrimaddict

DREDDLOCKED wrote: »

Where is your house based?????

Hi,

Limerick. Where is yours as this sounds similar/very same

DREDDLOCKED

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi,

Limerick. Where is yours as this sounds similar/very same

Mine is in the Midlands.
You do sound like my landlord though, I looked at your previous posts. Do you not think that maybe your tenant was good and you screwed him over?

Skyrimaddict

DREDDLOCKED wrote: »

Mine is in the Midlands.
You do sound like my landlord though, I looked at your previous posts. Do you not think that maybe your tenant was good and you screwed him over?

I have said before he was.

An Bradán Feasa

DREDDLOCKED wrote: »

Mine is in the Midlands.
You do sound like my landlord though, I looked at your previous posts. Do you not think that maybe your tenant was good and you screwed him over?

Good tenants don't leave their landlords out of pocket.

Skyrimaddict

An Bradán Feasa wrote: »

Good tenants don't leave their landlords out of pocket.

Well said

DrPhilG

DREDDLOCKED wrote: »

Mine is in the Midlands.
You do sound like my landlord though

Glad I'm not the only one who saw 2 threads and thought "hmmmm"

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057798441

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057799358

Hitman3000

So basically you're out of pocket to the tune of 600 euro. You owe tenant 4.4k and he owes you 5k. The grief you're going to go through to get 600 euro is it worth it?