RTB Case went in my favor - Is it worth to follow up now?

Skyrimaddict

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So basically you're out of pocket to the tune of 600 euro. You owe tenant 4.4k and he owes you 5k. The grief you're going to go through to get 600 euro is it worth it?

Hi,

No I think it will be about 3k in total. I owe tenant probably around 1.5k, he owes closes to 5k

Skyrimaddict

DrPhilG wrote: »

Glad I'm not the only one who saw 2 threads and thought "hmmmm"

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057798441

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057799358

Hi,
Yes I thought it was my tenant also, but different places plus my guy moved out early in the year, it just took ages for RTB case to go through. But sounds of other one it was done from June till present

Skyrimaddict

Hi again.

I received notification today that RTB determination order was sent out to tenant.

What happens now, I am told these are legally binding but have seen here that may not be the case.
Do I possibly need to go to court now

Baby01032012

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi again.

I received notification today that RTB determination order was sent out to tenant.

What happens now, I am told these are legally binding but have seen here that may not be the case.
Do I possibly need to go to court now

Adjudication finding or determination order. DO follows adjudication finding by approx. 2 weeks well tenant would have had 2 weeks to appeal. If they don't then a DO issues. What was in the DO or adjudication order. It should state what and when it is to be paid etc. RTB are not taking too many cases to the courts so it may fall to you to take a case to the High Court. Follow up with the RTB to find if they plan to take any further action.

Skyrimaddict

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Adjudication finding or determination order. DO follows adjudication finding by approx. 2 weeks well tenant would have had 2 weeks to appeal. If they don't then a DO issues. What was in the DO or adjudication order. It should state what and when it is to be paid etc. RTB are not taking too many cases to the courts so it may fall to you to take a case to the High Court. Follow up with the RTB to find if they plan to take any further action.

Hi,

It is for rent arrears and overholding.
It says seven days to move out , which was done already even before the hearing.
It says 28 days to pay rent back.

Baby01032012

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi,

It is for rent arrears and overholding.
It says seven days to move out , which was done already even before the hearing.
It says 28 days to pay rent back.

The thing I hate is it probably says you have to pay back the deposit on them leaving which RTB will look for wether they pay the rent arrears or not.

If you get back rent great. If not thank your lucky stars they are out. RTB won't pursue rent arrears through the courts.

You are in a better position than me. I can't get them out despite guards going in for criminal activity and RTB DO ignored.

Skyrimaddict

Baby01032012 wrote: »

The thing I hate is it probably says you have to pay back the deposit on them leaving which RTB will look for wether they pay the rent arrears or not.

If you get back rent great. If not thank your lucky stars they are out. RTB won't pursue rent arrears through the courts.

You are in a better position than me. I can't get them out despite guards going in for criminal activity and RTB DO ignored.

Yes it does. It says I need to do this upon return of house
I was lucky in one sense as house was given back in great nick, only needed two rooms repainted. House was re rented in two weeks to a nice family

Skyrimaddict

Baby01032012 wrote: »

The thing I hate is it probably says you have to pay back the deposit on them leaving which RTB will look for wether they pay the rent arrears or not.

If you get back rent great. If not thank your lucky stars they are out. RTB won't pursue rent arrears through the courts.

You are in a better position than me. I can't get them out despite guards going in for criminal activity and RTB DO ignored.

If o don't give back the deposit mind you, does that mean the order becomes null and void ?

Baby01032012

Well I think RTB could prosecute you for not abiding by the DO. Unlikely though as I said they won't prosecute the tenant. I know what I'd be doing. However it would be against the forum rules to suggest that. The RTB is a complete waste. Landlords are bound to go through it but the RTB have no power or money to pursue if tenants choose to ignore their orders.

Skyrimaddict

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Well I think RTB could prosecute you for not abiding by the DO. Unlikely though as I said they won't prosecute the tenant. I know what I'd be doing. However it would be against the forum rules to suggest that. The RTB is a complete waste. Landlords are bound to go through it but the RTB have no power or money to pursue if tenants choose to ignore their orders.

My thought would be that if neither followed through with terms set out the process might be cancelled.

murphaph

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I think 5k is worth chasing btw, pretty sure you can claim costs as well when taking him to Court.

Total waste of time and money.

You can claim costs but you don't give your barrister or solicitor an IOU at the end of proceedings. You pay them and hope the defendant pays you...which he probably won't if he over held in the first place.

Seriously...been there done that (considerably larger sum). I wish the whole thing had only cost 5k. We even got a judgement mortgage on his property but all he has to do is not sell it or give his half to his wife and it's worthless.

Proceed as far as possible without engaging anybody that will charge you OP if you want to feel like you've done something.

System badly broken.

Skyrimaddict

murphaph wrote: »

Total waste of time and money.

You can claim costs but you don't give your barrister or solicitor an IOU at the end of proceedings. You pay them and hope the defendant pays you...which he probably won't if he over held in the first place.

Seriously...been there done that (considerably larger sum). I wish the whole thing had only cost 5k. We even got a judgement mortgage on his property but all he has to do is not sell it or give his half to his wife and it's worthless.

Proceed as far as possible without engaging anybody that will charge you OP if you want to feel like you've done something.

System badly broken.

I suppose it is a bit skewed.

My only thought on it is I know he now has a house, good paying job etc.
There was no sign at the adjudication hearing or any appeal lodged. The RTB said letters were sent to his new house.

I do wonder is it just not worth it at all. The RTB said they can enforce it if I ask.

murphaph

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I suppose it is a bit skewed.

My only thought on it is I know he now has a house, good paying job etc.
There was no sign at the adjudication hearing or any appeal lodged. The RTB said letters were sent to his new house.

I do wonder is it just not worth it at all. The RTB said they can enforce it if I ask.

My case was commercial so we had no RTB involvement. If they will enforce something and it doesn't cost you anything then go for it but my strong advice us to stop before spending any money on legal eagles.

Skyrimaddict

murphaph wrote: »

My case was commercial so we had no RTB involvement. If they will enforce something and it doesn't cost you anything then go for it but my strong advice us to stop before spending any money on legal eagles.

I think it would be different, no?

The RTB letter said they have diverted significant resource to court appearances.
My friend who works Legal had said if i give back the deposit I still need to wait 21 days to get my full rent back, but if I dont I might void the whole thing as " neither parties to the order are in compliance" so not sure. I dont want to be EVEN MORE out of pocket by trying to comply and then have to chase more money again.

murphaph

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I think it would be different, no?

The RTB letter said they have diverted significant resource to court appearances.
My friend who works Legal had said if i give back the deposit I still need to wait 21 days to get my full rent back, but if I dont I might void the whole thing as " neither parties to the order are in compliance" so not sure. I dont want to be EVEN MORE out of pocket by trying to comply and then have to chase more money again.

Then you have a straight gamble to make or not. The RTB have to go through the courts too. Even if they get a judgement against the character (as we did in the district court-the amount was over the limit for the circuit court) you still have to enforce it. If the guy has property you can get a judgement mortgage placed on it but like I said even this is useless if he's prepared to sit it out for (I believe) 12 years without selling at which point the judgement mortgage expires. He can also simply gift his share to his wife.

Unless the guy has real property beyond a family
home I simply wouldn't bother if it was me. I'd take an entirely different path if it ever happened again with our small commercial units. With residential I only have the one property in Ireland and have thus far been lucky.

Edit: if he has no real property just forget it. The sheriff would make an appointment and turn up and find nothing of value and that would be the end of the matter. Our guy waited until the Sheriff sent him the letter and at that point cleared his stock out and did a runner.

Claw Hammer

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I think it would be different, no?

The RTB letter said they have diverted significant resource to court appearances.
My friend who works Legal had said if i give back the deposit I still need to wait 21 days to get my full rent back, but if I dont I might void the whole thing as " neither parties to the order are in compliance" so not sure. I dont want to be EVEN MORE out of pocket by trying to comply and then have to chase more money again.

Your friend in Legal Aid is talking nonsense. You do not have to pay back a deposit where you are owed rent. The order is to prevent you taking the rent from the tenant and then witholding the deposit. The tenant pays the net amount, end of story.

Skyrimaddict

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Your friend in Legal Aid is talking nonsense. You do not have to pay back a deposit where you are owed rent. The order is to prevent you taking the rent from the tenant and then witholding the deposit. The tenant pays the net amount, end of story.

I did say at the beginning he was not an expert in property. he had only advised from other legal points that if neither party to an agreement comply.

But the DO i received says it in black and white, landlord MUST return deposit to tenant on return of property less any monies owed for repair ( not the actual wording, but money for what a deposit is meant for)

The order says he has 28 days to return the rent owed, but i have to hand back the deposit ASAP

mugsymugsy

When you get your money - give them the deposit back. Seriously don't lose even further money on this.

Skyrimaddict

mugsymugsy wrote: »

When you get your money - give them the deposit back. Seriously don't lose even further money on this.

Ha, I agree with this, however this is not what the Order says to do!!

This is the conundrum I find myself in, if I comply with the order I should give his deposit back, today actually, but he has another 21 days to reply about the rent. he actually doesnt have to give it all back then, but enter into agreement on how to give it back.
I could end up giving back 850 today and then get 1 euro a week for 4000 weeks!!!!!

murphaph

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Ha, I agree with this, however this is not what the Order says to do!!

This is the conundrum I find myself in, if I comply with the order I should give his deposit back, today actually, but he has another 21 days to reply about the rent. he actually doesnt have to give it all back then, but enter into agreement on how to give it back.
I could end up giving back 850 today and then get 1 euro a week for 4000 weeks!!!!!

If I was in your shoes I would definitely absolutely positively not return the deposit. It's the very definition of throwing good money after bad IMO but it's your call.

Caliden

Post date a cheque for 30 days.

Graham

Mod Note: OP, you need to take qualified legal advice.

As this thread has strayed far enough into the realm of absolutely unqualified anecdotal legal theory I'm going to close it now.

TheChizler

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

The order says he has 28 days to return the rent owed, but i have to hand back the deposit ASAP

Is there a neutral 3rd party they'd be agreeable to who you could give the deposit to? A solicitor maybe?