Breastfeeding - why bother?

blackbird86

Same as Loveinapril, I never felt any pressure to breastfeed. I struggled badly in the early days due to an undiagnosed tongue tie and the only person I felt any pressure from to continue was myself and that was because I was 100% determined that I was going to breastfeed and I would have been devastated to stop. I felt plenty of pressure to use formula from other people but never once felt pressurised to continue breastfeeding from anyone but myself.

I agree that the support in this country is woeful. It was only when I sought out an IBCLC (certified lactation consultant) that we sorted our issues. If I hadn't been so determined I would've been one of the majority who stop very quickly.

comongethappy

First off, well done OP for making it to 3 months. Every breastfed is a gift.

I combine fed my first. He was dehydrated as my milk first came in day 7 due to severely low iron, at heel prick test was just told to top up and only when I saw a lactation consultant was I told why I wasn't producing. I overfed formula then because I felt so guilty and slowly had to wean him off, and the formula the hospital recommended didn't suit so I had to change. He refused formula then once we weaned and I then happily and easily fed till 22 months. Found being able to boob him back to a godsend as he was not a great sleeper, even with formula. I think the main issue is blanket advice given regarding by many health professionals and even some people regarding breastfeeding, and where women cannot access a lactation consultant outside of hospital. Many issues such as tongue tie and supply issues are caught
After baby comes home. I am very lucky to live in an area with an HSE lactation consultant. Secondly, I think my main problem is that didn't trust my own instinct in the first instance that he wasn't getting enough. I think it's very hard to do as a first time mom, but your instinct is generally right.

My second I bought a couple cartons of premade formula that worked for my son just in case I ran into trouble again, but I actually had an oversupply this time! Also glad to be breastfeeding as she as a cows milk sensitivity so would have had formula issues where as I can just adjust my diet.

To be honest, while a lot of people say their kids were formula fed and fine, my SIL has had a lot of issues with her two who were formula fed, and while her first is fine now, I don't envy the struggle and tears she had when they were babies.

Loveinapril

AttentionBebe wrote: »

In fairness you haven't experienced it because you haven't had the baby yet!
.

Where is the pressure coming from?
I am between the hospital and GP about 3 times a week the past month or two with a variety of pregnancy related things and anything feeding related has been balanced so far.
I am attending the Rotunda who pride themselves on being a "breastfeeding friendly hospital" but I have still never noticed a sway in either direction.

shesty

The one thing I did find odd in the whole situation both times was that everyone was pro breastfeeding, midwives were all about it (despite conflicting advice) yet I distinctly remember my GP(who is very good and I was surprised at), my PHN and a midwife saying 'you're still breastfeeding?" When I saw them all at various stages from about 3 weeks on....in a tone that suggested I should really have moved on from that by then.
It was very bizarre!No.3.is due anyway, and I do intend to try it again, but I will get a private lactation consultant much earlier and try to establish combined feeding early.

Beanybabog

I had a very rough start but got help, although it did take a long time before breastfeeding became easy. I think about the 3 month mark it was, and then I could see it was easier than bottle feeding- in fact my PHN said most people seem to give it up before they get to the nice easy time!!! Next time I'll breastfeed but I'm
Not going to alworry about pumping for supply etc- if I want a night off I'll give a bottle of formula and no guilt!

franzilein

The reason why bottle fed babies tend to sleep "better" is because it's much harder for their little tummies to digest formula. They're basically in a food coma... Babies aren't designed to sleep through the night!

scarepanda

Loveinapril wrote: »

Where is the pressure coming from?

Hopefully you won't feel any pressure, but it usually doesn't start till you have made a choice one way or the other. And then your damned if you do and damned if you don't. In general medical professionals will want you to breastfeed, but at the first sign of a problem (even if its not one and just a hurdle that's easily solved) they (in my experience PHNs) will want you on formula. And then if you decide to breastfeed you'll have a certain cohort of non professionals (mother/sisters/friends etc) telling you to bottle feed once you get over the first few weeks when it generally starts to get easier. And by 6 months if you end up feeding that long you'll have the 'your still breastfeeding/how long are you going to breastfeed' questions. If your from a family/support network that breastfeeds then this part will be easier because it won't be so alien for them and they will be able to give you support, even if they didn't feed for as long.

And then finally, you have the pressure you put on yourself and everything you have read/been told will probably be sitting in the back of your head and come to the fore especially if your having a difficult time. I was determined to breastfeed, but I did put myself under extra pressure in the hospital when my LO was hungry before my supply came in. I took a notion that she wasn't to be topped up with formula, instead thankfully we were given the option of donor milk. But when I think back on it now, it was crazy the notion I took. But that's what hormones will do to you.

shesty

Beanybabog wrote: »

I had a very rough start but got help, although it did take a long time before breastfeeding became easy. I think about the 3 month mark it was, and then I could see it was easier than bottle feeding- in fact my PHN said most people seem to give it up before they get to the nice easy time!!! Next time I'll breastfeed but I'm
Not going to alworry about pumping for supply etc- if I want a night off I'll give a bottle of formula and no guilt!

Everyone told me six weeks was when it got easy, but I think you're right with 12 weeks.

Turfcutter

I’ve seen the pressure myself. My wife has always started out breastfeeding, with differing levels of success. As a husband, you feel extra helpless when you’re wife is in tears and distraught when it isn’t working out. Like a lot of people, she probably put herself under too much pressure by listening to too many people and reading too much.

A certain amount of the pressure is middle class smugness. In my wife’s peer group there are a fair few super mums which probably doesn’t help. The ones who feed their kids organic everything, ban sweets and chocolate at parties and would look down on formula feeders.

A lot of the supposed benefits are imaginary or unproven. For example, that breastfed kids achieve a higher IQ and educational standard is to do with the differing socio-economic breakdowns. Studies where a breastfed and bottle fed child are in the same family don’t detect any difference.

Go into any clinic and flyers and there are posters up proclaiming the benefits of breastfeeding. I get it that breast milk is the most natural thing you can give your child and formula is a copy, but the excessive evangelism now attached to it doesn’t help people.

catrionanic

I’m still BFing at 8.5 months, and it’s been a pretty smooth and easy journey since about week 3 (the pain in the first few weeks was the only issue we had).

I have never once felt any pressure to breastfeed. Maybe that’s because I always intended to do it. But what I will say, is that barely a few days go by when I’m not put under pressure to stop breastfeeding. In the early days and weeks, people constantly were telling me that it shouldn’t be painful, that he’s waking too much, that he’s feeding too often - and to give him a bottle. Then once we got established, the next round of questions was about when I’m going to stop, whether I’m STILL breastfeeding, and again, that I should give him a bottle so that he sleeps longer/eats less often/anything you could possibly think of.

I’m now gearing up for the next round of opinions, as he’s getting closer to one, which will be the people telling me that I should stop now, that it’s weird to keep feeding him, that I’m doing it for me and not him, etc.

So while many women feel pressure to breastfeed in the early days, the pressure to breastfeed over the initial few weeks can be nothing compared to the pressure constantly applied on women to STOP breastfeeding for the months and years thereafter!

Wesser

Just do whatever you want.

Everyone should do whatever they want to do and stop looking at what other people are doing .

lazygal

I'm a lazygal which I why I breastfed. Still going with my four year old. The BF support was woejus in hospital.

meeeeh

My SIL in another country bottle fed first child who was premature and she lost the milk. They went through a lot of hassle getting the formula that he could tolerate. Formula was also twice the price it is in Ireland (in country with lower incomes) and more convenient preprepared stuff not available. She breastfed subsequent two kids with no major issues and no intolerances.

Posts in this thread make it seem breastfeeding is this huge deal that only the lucky lucky few or smug mothers can manage. Where I come from breastfeeding or not breastfeeding is not something mothers would wrestle with. Almost everyone tries it and if there are issues then formula is used. I can understand perfectly that there are issues that prevent women breastfeeding but that is not the reason for the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world. The reality is that most of those who don't breastfeed don't even try it.

As for the question why bother, well it still is the best food for your child. Btw I stopped breastfeeding after about five months because it did not suit me after that so I am not evangelical about breastfeeding but I do think some perspective is needed.

lazygal

Ireland being home to such a huge dairy industry is a major issue. We produce infant formula for profit. No money to be made from lactating women.

jlm29

I think that a lot of the people who are accused of being breastfeeding "evangelists" and other such labels, aren't actually that bothered, but they just want to help, because they know how shockingly bad the help and support actually is. I don't give a fiddlers what anyone else feeds their child, but if I think someone wants to bf, I will offer help and advice if they ask for it. Sometimes the help people offer comes across as pushiness, but it's just an attempt to counteract the poor support that's offered in the health services. I know several people who tried to bf, it didn't work, so they switched, and then they wished subsequently that they'd stuck with it. I always feel a bit sad for those people!

I'd also agree that there seems to be more pressure to formula feed! My mother practically had to stand guard over my infant when I went to theatre after I had him, because there was a midwife who was adamant he should be given formula. My mother (who is herself one of the people who has tried to convince me I should be giving my babies a bottle of formula a day, because they need it), had to be quite firm with her that he'd be fine without it.

mrsmags16

lazygal wrote: »

I'm a lazygal which I why I breastfed. Still going with my four year old. The BF support was woejus in hospital.

Hey lazygal can I be nosy and ask why you're still feeding- zero judgment but just out of curiosity?

rainbow kirby

Natural term can be anywhere between 2 and 7, if it's working for both mother and child then no great rush to stop!

lazygal wrote: »

Ireland being home to such a huge dairy industry is a major issue. We produce infant formula for profit. No money to be made from lactating women.

Formula is also unusually cheap in Ireland and the UK compared to other places. We were on holiday in France recently and the sort of ready to feed cartons of stage 3 formula that would be around 60p in the UK were around €1.50-2 each there.

lazygal

mrsmags16 wrote: »

Hey lazygal can I be nosy and ask why you're still feeding- zero judgment but just out of curiosity?

Literally too lazy to wean! No big agenda at all, it just works for us. I planned on stopping when he turned two, then that turned into two and a half and so on. We'll stop when we stop.

mrsmags16

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Natural term can be anywhere between 2 and 7, if it's working for both mother and child then no great rush to stop!

lazygal wrote: »

Ireland being home to such a huge dairy industry is a major issue. We produce infant formula for profit. No money to be made from lactating women.

Formula is also unusually cheap in Ireland and the UK compared to other places. We were on holiday in France recently and the sort of ready to feed cartons of stage 3 formula that would be around 60p in the UK were around €1.50-2 each there.

In Greece recently and 400g of equivalent of Aptamil formula was 14 euro in supermarket. Here I get 900g Aldi for 10 euro. Needless to say one of the waiters told me nearly all women breastfeed their kids there!

Sesame

I fed my second until he was just over 3. Why? Laziness again.
If he fell or hurt himself - offer boob as a fix
If he missed me - offer boob
If he's trying to sleep - offer boob. Especially after the age of one and after he had brushed his teeth, it doesn't harm teeth like formula no no problem feeding during the night.

I still worked and traveled with work and could go a week and return at the weekend and be pounced upon by him.

He gave up himself when other things got more interesting. He still fondles them!

seamus

blackbird86 wrote: »

Different babies have different temperaments, just because your first was unsettled on the boob it doesn't mean all breastfed babies are like that or that your next will be.

This. Our first was quite windy and whingey. And while she did well on the boob, at 3 months+ it was starting to become a real struggle for my wife waking multiple times per night, or feeding for ages only to see it puked up again all over the bed.

She went back to work at 4 months, so combo feeding started, which took the pressure off a little, but it was still there. She enjoyed it insofar as she appreciated the closeness, but found it a big struggle and gave up around 7 months.

The 2nd by comparison was a much more contented and relaxed child, far less waking, far less puking, and BF was just so much easier and more convenient that she kept at it until the child basically rejected it (by biting a lot and not feeding at all) around 8 months. Had that not happened, my wife would have happily kept going.

Now that we're in bottlefeeding land, having to bring all the stuff with you when you go out, constantly having to think about boiling the kettle, when did it boil, can the child wait 30 minutes or will we use a pre-prepared bottle, have we remembered to sterilise the bottles, etc. It definitely has its own pain points that don't exist with breastfeeding.

Sesame

Your "wrong" is my normal. Although I would have probably had an opinion similar to yours before I ever had babies. It just became normal for us and no any different from feeding a younger baby.

scarepanda

catrionanic wrote: »

I’m now gearing up for the next round of opinions, as he’s getting closer to one, which will be the people telling me that I should stop now, that it’s weird to keep feeding him, that I’m doing it for me and not him, etc.

I was expecting this as well catrionanic coming up to a year old, but tbh it wasn't as bad as I expected. Iv found that once I got through the more demanding type questions around 6 months, people seemed to accept that we'll finish when we finish. Iv always given wishy washy open ended answers as to when I planned to finish (because I honestly don't know) and now all I seem to get are the more curious, but not really judgemental question of 'are you still breastfeeding' and that's seems to be as far as the questioning goes.

Sesame

I think its more accepted in the last couple of years than ever before too. There seems to be a resurgence of breastfeeders and its not as alien as it once was.

hometruths

I'm a father who was wholeheartedly behind my partners firm stance on breastfeeding because I believe it is a more natural source of food. My support wavered when our child struggled to gain weight for the first 6 weeks of her life and then actually started losing weight.

jlm29 wrote: »

I think that a lot of the people who are accused of being breastfeeding "evangelists" and other such labels, aren't actually that bothered, but they just want to help, because they know how shockingly bad the help and support actually is.

Not in my personal experience.

My partner attended a local breastfeeding support group run by Cuidiu, and they did not actually want to help, they just constantly patted each other on the back for breast feeding and being violently opposed to to feeding formula.

They did not stop to question was the child getting enough food?

For the first ten weeks of her life she was constantly upset unless she was on the boob, something the people providing "help and support" interpreted as a sign she was bonding brilliantly.

I could see she was hungry. When I suggested we tried to get a doctor to check her feeding my partner was angry with me, because "they'll just recommend formula" - this was an attitude picked up in the support group, avoid listening to anyone who might even consider formula feeding, even the child's father.

Anybody well meaning who mentioned in passing was that our daughter was very thin was shunned, as again the inference was the breast feeding was not going well, but sure as long as the experts in the support group were happy that was the most important thing.

Eventually my partner agreed to see a lactation consultant, but only one who had been vetted as "pro breast feeding/anti formula". She diagnosed a tongue tie and confirmed that our daughter was not getting enough to eat despite being on the boob almost every waking minute.

Apart from obviously recommended fixing the tongue tie the consultants recommendation was:

"I would suggest the plan moving forward is to feed at the breast as much as possible. Use breast compressions to keep her feeding as long as possible. Superswitch pump in the evenings (on for 20 mins, off for 10, on for 10, off for 10, on for 10). This works on the prolactin levels to increase milk for the days coming. Add 120 mls of milk to her daily breastfeeds. You can do this by bottle, cup, SNS or syringe. I suggest 4 x 30 ml amounts spread over the day. If you are using bottles use the paced bottle feeding system, leaflet attached. We would expect to see a gain of 30 grammes per day or around 200 grammes per week"

I lost it and tried to point out that formula is not poison! By refusing to give it to her we were quite clearly damaging her health. I gave it a weeks ultimatum and insisted we fed her formula if no improvement. After faffing about with pumps and syringes for a week with no improvement we finally gave her a bottle of formula.

The effect was instant. My partner felt she had failed as a mother but our daughter was an immediately happier child, and started gaining weight immediately.

Our daughter was dangerously close to being hospitalised like an earlier poster, and I still can't bear to look at photos of her from that time because she looks so painfully thin and unhealthy.

When I did some research about breastfeeding support I discovered that our experience is by no means uncommon. The pressure on the mothers in the support groups is so great that they can actually not recognise when they are harming their child.

We are expecting our second child next year and whilst I am hopeful our child will be breastfed successfully I will no way be as "supportive" of "breast is best" as I was the first time round. At the first sign of trouble I will be lorrying formula into my child and I could not give a f*ck what anyone thinks, least of all the people who "just want to help, because they know how shockingly bad the help and support actually is."

Apologies for the long post but I get so angry when I hear statements like the one I quoted. Breastfeeding evangelists do not actually provide any meaningful help and support, beyond massaging each others egos.

jlm29

schmittel wrote: »

I'm a father who was wholeheartedly behind my partners firm stance on breastfeeding because I believe it is a more natural source of food. My support wavered when our child struggled to gain weight for the first 6 weeks of her life and then actually started losing weight.



Not in my personal experience.

My partner attended a local breastfeeding support group run by Cuidiu, and they did not actually want to help, they just constantly patted each other on the back for breast feeding and being violently opposed to to feeding formula.

They did not stop to question was the child getting enough food?

For the first ten weeks of her life she was constantly upset unless she was on the boob, something the people providing "help and support" interpreted as a sign she was bonding brilliantly.

I could see she was hungry. When I suggested we tried to get a doctor to check her feeding my partner was angry with me, because "they'll just recommend formula" - this was an attitude picked up in the support group, avoid listening to anyone who might even consider formula feeding, even the child's father.

Anybody well meaning who mentioned in passing was that our daughter was very thin was shunned, as again the inference was the breast feeding was not going well, but sure as long as the experts in the support group were happy that was the most important thing.

Eventually my partner agreed to see a lactation consultant, but only one who had been vetted as "pro breast feeding/anti formula". She diagnosed a tongue tie and confirmed that our daughter was not getting enough to eat despite being on the boob almost every waking minute.

Apart from obviously recommended fixing the tongue tie the consultants recommendation was:

"I would suggest the plan moving forward is to feed at the breast as much as possible. Use breast compressions to keep her feeding as long as possible. Superswitch pump in the evenings (on for 20 mins, off for 10, on for 10, off for 10, on for 10). This works on the prolactin levels to increase milk for the days coming. Add 120 mls of milk to her daily breastfeeds. You can do this by bottle, cup, SNS or syringe. I suggest 4 x 30 ml amounts spread over the day. If you are using bottles use the paced bottle feeding system, leaflet attached. We would expect to see a gain of 30 grammes per day or around 200 grammes per week"

I lost it and tried to point out that formula is not poison! By refusing to give it to her we were quite clearly damaging her health. I gave it a weeks ultimatum and insisted we fed her formula if no improvement. After faffing about with pumps and syringes for a week with no improvement we finally gave her a bottle of formula.

The effect was instant. My partner felt she had failed as a mother but our daughter was an immediately happier child, and started gaining weight immediately.

Our daughter was dangerously close to being hospitalised like an earlier poster, and I still can't bear to look at photos of her from that time because she looks so painfully thin and unhealthy.

When I did some research about breastfeeding support I discovered that our experience is by no means uncommon. The pressure on the mothers in the support groups is so great that they can actually not recognise when they are harming their child.

We are expecting our second child next year and whilst I am hopeful our child will be breastfed successfully I will no way be as "supportive" of "breast is best" as I was the first time round. At the first sign of trouble I will be lorrying formula into my child and I could not give a f*ck what anyone thinks, least of all the people who "just want to help, because they know how shockingly bad the help and support actually is."

Apologies for the long post but I get so angry when I hear statements like the one I quoted. Breastfeeding evangelists do not actually provide any meaningful help and support, beyond massaging each others egos.

Your wife was very unfortunate to have attended a Cuidu group like that. I have found the one I sometimes attend to be totally different, and no one has ever massaged anyone's ego, or patted anyone on the back.
I would hate other people reading your post to believe that they're all awful, because that might put people off ever attending any of them.

comongethappy

schmittel wrote: »

I'm a father who was wholeheartedly behind my partners firm stance on breastfeeding because I believe it is a more natural source of food. My support wavered when our child struggled to gain weight for the first 6 weeks of her life and then actually started losing weight.



Not in my personal experience.

My partner attended a local breastfeeding support group run by Cuidiu, and they did not actually want to help, they just constantly patted each other on the back for breast feeding and being violently opposed to to feeding formula.

They did not stop to question was the child getting enough food?

For the first ten weeks of her life she was constantly upset unless she was on the boob, something the people providing "help and support" interpreted as a sign she was bonding brilliantly.

I could see she was hungry. When I suggested we tried to get a doctor to check her feeding my partner was angry with me, because "they'll just recommend formula" - this was an attitude picked up in the support group, avoid listening to anyone who might even consider formula feeding, even the child's father.

Anybody well meaning who mentioned in passing was that our daughter was very thin was shunned, as again the inference was the breast feeding was not going well, but sure as long as the experts in the support group were happy that was the most important thing.

Eventually my partner agreed to see a lactation consultant, but only one who had been vetted as "pro breast feeding/anti formula". She diagnosed a tongue tie and confirmed that our daughter was not getting enough to eat despite being on the boob almost every waking minute.

Apart from obviously recommended fixing the tongue tie the consultants recommendation was:

"I would suggest the plan moving forward is to feed at the breast as much as possible. Use breast compressions to keep her feeding as long as possible. Superswitch pump in the evenings (on for 20 mins, off for 10, on for 10, off for 10, on for 10). This works on the prolactin levels to increase milk for the days coming. Add 120 mls of milk to her daily breastfeeds. You can do this by bottle, cup, SNS or syringe. I suggest 4 x 30 ml amounts spread over the day. If you are using bottles use the paced bottle feeding system, leaflet attached. We would expect to see a gain of 30 grammes per day or around 200 grammes per week"

I lost it and tried to point out that formula is not poison! By refusing to give it to her we were quite clearly damaging her health. I gave it a weeks ultimatum and insisted we fed her formula if no improvement. After faffing about with pumps and syringes for a week with no improvement we finally gave her a bottle of formula.

The effect was instant. My partner felt she had failed as a mother but our daughter was an immediately happier child, and started gaining weight immediately.

Our daughter was dangerously close to being hospitalised like an earlier poster, and I still can't bear to look at photos of her from that time because she looks so painfully thin and unhealthy.

When I did some research about breastfeeding support I discovered that our experience is by no means uncommon. The pressure on the mothers in the support groups is so great that they can actually not recognise when they are harming their child.

We are expecting our second child next year and whilst I am hopeful our child will be breastfed successfully I will no way be as "supportive" of "breast is best" as I was the first time round. At the first sign of trouble I will be lorrying formula into my child and I could not give a f*ck what anyone thinks, least of all the people who "just want to help, because they know how shockingly bad the help and support actually is."

Apologies for the long post but I get so angry when I hear statements like the one I quoted. Breastfeeding evangelists do not actually provide any meaningful help and support, beyond massaging each others egos.

I am sorry your wife had such a bad experience with the support group. I think the lactation consultant's advice would have been fine if the TT was caught and treated much earlier, but as baby was losing weight I think it was poor advice not to advise formula top ups. Yes it can affect supply, but your wife could have done the extra pumping to keep supply up and eventually wean off formula once the baby was gaining and feeding properly.

While nothing compares to breast milk, I do feel it's wonderful that formula is there to protect and help babies thrive where there are breastfeeding problems that need time to sort or for when there are personal / family issues etc where it just works out better for the family to combine or solely formula feed. I just feel it's a pity that many won't try to breast feed or even just get the colostrum into the baby.

I hope your wife has an easier time bf the next, but please do see a lactation consultant regarding tongue tie as often other babies can have it, and from friends experiences, see a consultant outside of the hospital too to verify if the hospital consultant says there are none.

fits

comongethappy wrote: »

.

While nothing compares to breast milk, I do feel it's wonderful that formula is there to protect and help babies thrive where there are breastfeeding problems that need time to sort or for when there are personal / family issues etc where it just works out better for the family to combine or solely formula feed. I just feel it's a pity that many won't try to breast feed or even just get the colostrum into the baby.
.

This. Formula is wonderful. When used like a medicine forbabies who need it. But in my experience there is an over reliance on it when breasferding solutions can be found. Breastfeeding should be seen as the default way to feed.

Anyway. I'm feeding 10 month old twins. It's gone well. I love it. And have no intention of stopping.

PhoenixParker

jlm29 wrote: »

Your wife was very unfortunate to have attended a Cuidu group like that. I have found the one I sometimes attend to be totally different, and no one has ever massaged anyone's ego, or patted anyone on the back.
I would hate other people reading your post to believe that they're all awful, because that might put people off ever attending any of them.

See jlm you say this and talk about how breastfeeders are just trying to be helpful but you (amongst many others) give advice like this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104726374&postcount=23

A two week old baby with a weight gain of 3oz is cause for concern and additional monitoring. The PHN's advice was probably overzealous, she later walked it back, but she had seen the baby and was in a position to give medical advice. You and everyone else on that thread had not and are not. The advice - to absolutely not offer formula as though it's poison, to dismiss everything the PHN said, to report her was potentially lethally dangerous.

It gobsmacks me how over confident and dangerous that is and how the breastfeeding community do it on a daily basis. Yes there's a nod towards talk to a lactation consultant or visit a cuidiu group but it's almost an afterthought.

If there genuinely is a problem there, at best you have seriously delayed that baby getting the food it needs, at worst the baby will end up in hospital. You've also made the job of well educated and responsible medical practitioners intervening when it's genuinely needed more difficult.

Later in the thread wet and dirty nappies are held up as the gold standard, they are not, weight gain is 100% the gold standard. Wet and dirty nappies are an indicator that feeding is going well, but that's all. They're not even a great indicator.
This is the study about wet and dirty nappies:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0890334407311538
If you read the abstract you'll see that both the sensitivity and specificity are low (basically many babies who had apparently normal diaper counts were not receiving adequate food) when you consider that they're talking about making sure a newborn is adequately fed.

Moving on from that

The absolute confidence that low supply is a rare issue and if the mothers with low supply didn't top up then they would magically make more milk.

It's not that rare. The research is poor but the lowest estimates I've seen put it at 4% of the population. The highest estimates I've seen put it at 15%.
The lower end estimate, 4 % is one in 25 people with low supply, that's low supply related to either a capacity or a refill issue not tongue tie.

Somehow or other this idea that tongue tie is the only possible cause of supply/transfer problems needs to get out of your heads.

For anyone reading this some possible indicators of future supply issues are:
1) known insulin resistance, 2) breasts that do not change size during pregnancy, 3) known thyroid issues 4) tubular breasts, i.e. widely spaced, sort of triangular shape, nipples at the very end, lack of fullness underneath

I see a lot too about the "slippery slope of topping up"
In my experience it wasn't a slippery slope.
Baby's needs increase as they get bigger, if you have low supply and your milk supply doesn't grow with baby's needs then you'll need to top up a little more as they get bigger.

I am now breastfeeding a 13 month old. He's been topped up every feed since he was four weeks old. He loves both his formula and his boob. That's in spite of the breastfeeding community not because of it.

For anyone who believes they are experiencing low supply, pm me and I will put you in touch with an excellent facebook group who offer support for mothers in similar situations. It is perfectly possible, if you need to, to combine supplementing with breastfeeding and have an amazing breastfeeding relationship.

jlm29

But I didn't ever say formula is poison and should never be given. I said the PHN was spouting nonsense- which I would still say. I acknowledge that I didn't specifically quote the line i thought was nonsense "she said I should be getting 2.5oz from each breast"- which I should have. That's a ridiculous thing to say. No one knows how much milk in ounces a breastfed infant is taking, that's. why they use weight gain as an indicator. And then I said I thought a second opinion would be a good idea. The baby referred to in that thread had regained to birth weight quite quickly, and was still gaining weight. At no point did I tell anyone to ignore concerns regarding weight gain.