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knipex

knipex wrote: »

Where exactly did I say that ???

I said it doesn't need a "true Sine wave" which is a very specific thing..

Which of these waves do you think generates more torque and less heat in an induction motor?

knipex wrote: »

You obviously didn't actually read what was asked..

They are looking for an emergency backup in the event or a rare power cut. A power cut that may last 3 to 10 days..

You suggested tractor batteries.

Now you are suggesting a PV battery back up system,

I am suggesting alternative power sources.
Define generator?

knipex wrote: »

essentially an off grid solution..

What's a genset?

knipex wrote: »

That's not what was asked for, its not what you suggested nor is it what was debated.

What's wrong with options? Some are better some are worse.

knipex wrote: »

I beg to differ. Its a battery, of course it can, depending on how its installed and Its actually being sold in some markets as an off grid solution.

Sure it can but the consumer version doesn't. Nor does it take charge from mains, just solar pv. It's not a very good off grid solution it's too small, proprietary and expensive.

knipex wrote: »

That depends on how you quantify better. In all development phases of new technologies you will find a strong DIY market that develop excellent solutions for very specific applications but I doubt anyone would call them mass market solutions. Or for that matter plug and play..

There's nothing plug and play about 14kWh+, which for a P-wall incidentally is ~£8k installed by professionals with hardware.

knipex

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Which of these waves do you think generates more torque and less heat in an induction motor?

Again what has that got to do with what you or I posted ?

You stated a compressor (or for that matter any induction motor) needs a true sine wave in order to run..



They don't .. if they did then half the inverter driven motors out there wouldn't work..

Is a true sine wave preferable ?? Absolutely.... but that's not what you said nor what I responded to.

Grand agree to disagree.
Sure you can drive nails with axes if you want to.

CJhaughey

The easiest solution would be a Honda Eu20i converted to run on LPG, this way you have no problems with old stale fuel blocking the carb, cleaner burn so the oil stays clean and will run your essentials.
Forget the shower no chance anything short of a big diesel genset will run your 10-13kw shower.
Add up all your requirements in terms of power and buy a genny that will run it.
Starting electric motors uses a fair bit of juice probably in the order of 3 x the running watts.

I don't like gensets but if I did I'd like a Honda...or a Lister.

bustopher

CJhaughey wrote: »

The easiest solution would be a Honda Eu20i converted to run on LPG, this way you have no problems with old stale fuel blocking the carb, cleaner burn so the oil stays clean and will run your essentials.
Forget the shower no chance anything short of a big diesel genset will run your 10-13kw shower.
Add up all your requirements in terms of power and buy a genny that will run it.
Starting electric motors uses a fair bit of juice probably in the order of 3 x the running watts.

Thanks for this CJ.

Are you aware of any cheaper models than Honda?

my3cents

CJhaughey wrote: »

The easiest solution would be a Honda Eu20i converted to run on LPG, this way you have no problems with old stale fuel blocking the carb, cleaner burn so the oil stays clean and will run your essentials.
Forget the shower no chance anything short of a big diesel genset will run your 10-13kw shower.
Add up all your requirements in terms of power and buy a genny that will run it.
Starting electric motors uses a fair bit of juice probably in the order of 3 x the running watts.

Can't remember the name (probably had eco in it somewhere) on a load of generators and big water pumps that are being promo-ed in a lot of builders merchants. Anyway the whole point of them is that they are run on bottled gas.

Not seen any prices but might be worth a look if anyone is interested.

Tuco88

CJhaughey wrote: »

The easiest solution would be a Honda Eu20i converted to run on LPG, this way you have no problems with old stale fuel blocking the carb, cleaner burn so the oil stays clean and will run your essentials.
Forget the shower no chance anything short of a big diesel genset will run your 10-13kw shower.
Add up all your requirements in terms of power and buy a genny that will run it.
Starting electric motors uses a fair bit of juice probably in the order of 3 x the running watts.

+1Not a bad idea at all. The biggest problem with petrol gens imo is lack of use, stale petrol and diaphragm, rubber seals dont go well.

I would also be one for a generator, Its the most practicaI it can come in handy for other jobs too, working on a new build or shed. It will also be much easier to sell or repair.

I have doubts with any battery storing systems over cost and practicality. Fine for particular situations no doubt.

Water John

I think they use LPG more in America for generators. No fuel staleness.

bustopher

my3cents wrote: »

Can't remember the name (probably had eco in it somewhere) on a load of generators and big water pumps that are being promo-ed in a lot of builders merchants. Anyway the whole point of them is that they are run on bottled gas.

Not seen any prices but might be worth a look if anyone is interested.

Was it 'Greengear' by any chance?

my3cents

bustopher wrote: »

Was it 'Greengear' by any chance?

Yeah that was it, Greengear knew they were trying to put some "eco" spin on it somehow. The two big local builders merchants have their stuff one has a display stand made up for it but I know neither would have ordered it as stock so it must be a sale or return deal for them.

bustopher

Certainly seems to tick a lot of boxes:
Can withstand long periods of inactivity
Available in a reasonable power range
If you have a gas BBQ - which we do - you are good to go
Delivers stable current
Reasonable price
Available locally
What's not to like!

my3cents

bustopher wrote: »

Certainly seems to tick a lot of boxes:
Can withstand long periods of inactivity
Available in a reasonable power range
If you have a gas BBQ - which we do - you are good to go
Delivers stable current
Reasonable price
Available locally
What's not to like!

Do you have a price I've seen the stuff loads of time but never seen a price and as they say if you have to ask you can't afford it

gctest50

Water John wrote: »

I think they use LPG more in America for generators. No fuel staleness.

They use mains (natural ) gas sometimes - no running around with fuel

bustopher

my3cents wrote: »

Do you have a price I've seen the stuff loads of time but never seen a price and as they say if you have to ask you can't afford it

http://shop.calorgas.ie/greengear.html

knipex

I love the idea of the gas powered generator, Reduce servicing, they tend to start far easier, run cleaner and generally don't mind standing idle for long periods.

My one concern would be run time. How long will they run on a standard small cylinder (gas BBQ or patio heater).

On mains gas they woudl be ideal, on bottled gas I would have concerns..

bustopher

knipex wrote: »

I love the idea of the gas powered generator, Reduce servicing, they tend to start far easier, run cleaner and generally don't mind standing idle for long periods.

My one concern would be run time. How long will they run on a standard small cylinder (gas BBQ or patio heater).

On mains gas they woudl be ideal, on bottled gas I would have concerns..

According to Calor Shop (014197870): the 2kW version will run for 27hrs on 75% power using a 19kg bottle

Run two bottles with a changeover valve then you're never far below half reserve.

my3cents

bustopher wrote: »

According to Calor Shop (014197870): the 2kW version will run for 27hrs on 75% power using a 19kg bottle

While not the largest bottle people would want to familiarize themselves with how big a 19kg bottle actually is. Most people would know the 5kg butane cylinders which are the same size as the 6kg propane cylinders. So a better way of putting it would be around 8 hours on a "standard" 6kg cylinder at 75% power. Not too shabby but still not cheap to run.

TeaBagMania

Tuco88 wrote: »

The biggest problem with petrol gens imo is lack of use, stale petrol and diaphragm, rubber seals dont go well.

Not a problem at all if you drain the petrol tank and carb before setting up for storage, had mine for 15 years and it always starts when I add petrol, on average I exercise it once every two years

TeaBagMania

TeaBagMania wrote: »

had mine for 15 years and it always starts when I add petrol

Is it a honda?

listermint

my3cents wrote: »

While not the largest bottle people would want to familiarize themselves with how big a 19kg bottle actually is. Most people would know the 5kg butane cylinders which are the same size as the 6kg propane cylinders. So a better way of putting it would be around 8 hours on a "standard" 6kg cylinder at 75% power. Not too shabby but still not cheap to run.

Ouch, whats that like 50 Euro for 8 hours power!?

TeaBagMania

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Is it a honda?

Kubota

my3cents

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Kubota

Mmmmmmmmmmm Nice!

bustopher

It's €22 for 6kg bottle propane in Woodies

The Honda EU20i (€1,500) sales blurb says it will run for 4 hrs @ 25% on 4.1 litres. Increasing the power x3 will burn more petrol so lets say 12 litres for 8 hrs @ 75% or €16.

Every 8 hours @75% the Honda will save €6 or €0.75 per hour.

The additional capital cost of the Honda is €930 (€1,500-€570).

Apart from the significant up front strain on funds the break even on the Honda is 1,240 hours. If you're using it solely as a back up generator and allow for 3 full days use per annum this equates to 17 years!!

By then I expect there'll be a different solution - possibly even a different question!

CJhaughey

I can't see any specs for those Greengear gensets, are they AVR or Inverter?
They seem good value but I would like to see some better info, their website is terribly vague apart from the engine.

bustopher

CJhaughey wrote: »

I can't see any specs for those Greengear gensets, are they AVR or Inverter?
They seem good value but I would like to see some better info, their website is terribly vague apart from the engine.

I had sent an email directly to Greengear Customer Service via their online facility on Wed afternoon asking how their 2kW delivered "completely safe for even the most sensitive electronics" output. So far I've received an automated acknowledgement (see below) but nothing further

From: Greengear Contact Form <no-reply@greengearglobal.com>
Date: 1 November 2017 at 15:46
Subject: Thank you for contacting us!
To:

Thank you so much for contacting us. We will get back to you shortly.
-The Greengear Team

bustopher

I also used Gosford Equipment website to ask about the price of Champion's LPG generator yesterday at lunchtime and this is their reply

---

Forwarded message

---

From: Dale McCrum <info@gosfordequipment.com>
Date: 3 November 2017 at 10:29
Subject: Re: Website Feedback Form Message www.gosfordequipment.com
To:

Hi ___

We have a Champion 2.3kw continuous output running on LPG available at £534.00 including VAT.

For full details click on the link below.

http://www.championgenerators.co.uk/Shop/champion-generators/uk-generators/duel-fuel-generators/champion-3000-watt-duel-fuel-generator

Thanks,
Dale McCrum
Tel: 028 3755 2749
info@gosfordequipment.com
www.gosfordequipment.com
Gosford Equipment Ltd

TeaBagMania

Nice, and they have a great karting track to boot... bet they would give you ten free laps with the purchase of a genny

what's the cost and availability of large LPG tanks in Ireland?

Water John

The large domestic tanks/cylinders 47kg, are very available. €95 for the fill, plus €65 for the cylinder.