Parents smacking children to be banned in Scotland .....

exaisle

I don't think anybody is advocating children getting beaten up here, but I wonder if there's any correlation between the reduction in corrective corporal punishment and the rise in anti-social behaviour?

andekwarhola

Hold on, I'll copy and paste my answer from the last few dozen threads on this.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

The amount of scumbags on here promoting violence against children is disgusting.

Nonsense, a bit of a smack is not violence. The nanny state PC bull is really getting ingrained in some people.

Society would benefit a lot if there was few more snacks given out rather than allowing the scrotes develop that we have nowadays. Kids wouldnt be half as cheeky if they knew a smack on the arse was the result of their acting up.

Zebra3

Minderbinder wrote: »

The amount of people on here referring to a slap as violence is hilarious.

What is it then? Some sort of hug?

Zebra3

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Nonsense, a bit of a smack is not violence. The nanny state PC bull is really getting ingrained in some people.

Smack an adult walking down the street and you’ll find yourself facing an assault charge.

But smacking a defenseless child. Grand, yeah?

tomwaterford

Minderbinder wrote: »

The amount of people on here referring to a slap as violence is hilarious.

Tbf assult would be a closer word???


If someone is resorting to having to hit children to intimadate them to behave,perhaps they shouldn't have them??

Zebra3

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Kids wouldnt be half as cheeky if they knew a smack on the arse was the result of their acting up.

Advocating the sexual assault of a child?

Stay classy.

ceadaoin.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Advocating the sexual assault of a child?

Stay classy.

I don't agree with smacking children myself but calling a smack on the bum sexual assault is going too far tbh. It clearly isn't.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Smack an adult walking down the street and you’ll find yourself facing an assault charge.

But smacking a defenseless child. Grand, yeah?

Its a totally nonsense comparison. You can't equate punching a stranger on the street to giving your own child a harmless clip on the ear or smack on the arse.

Sure if I ran up and did a sliding tackle and flattened a person on the street I'd probably end up in trouble over it but do it in a match and it's just part of the game.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Advocating the sexual assault of a child?

Stay classy.

I can't take you seriously with a comment like that. Bizarre comment.

Donald Trump

I blame Keith Flint

Actually on second thoughts. given what I know about Scotland (mainly from the trainspotting documentary) they might just be making it illegal to give your kids smack

NLC1072

Believe it or not smacking is still legal in Ireland, only the reasons within common law defence is smacking banned. There are still other defences in Irish law that would not prohibit it.

I'm neither for smacking nor not smacking, but I thought I would be devils advocate and point that out.

bucketybuck

Zebra3 wrote: »

The amount of scumbags on here promoting violence against children is disgusting.

Exhibit A as to why there can never be a sensible discussion about disciplining children.

There are a sizeable number of people who simply cannot grasp the very simple concept that there is a difference between disciplining a child and beating the **** out of a child.

tomwaterford

bucketybuck wrote: »

Exhibit A as to why there can never be a sensible discussion about disciplining children.

There are a sizeable number of people who simply cannot grasp the very simple concept that there is a difference between disciplining a child and beating the **** out of a child.

And what if child still disobeys/acts up after getting a belt


Someone who even hits once will surly escalate and hit harder/more frequent in the event of continued misbehaviour???

bucketybuck

tomwaterford wrote: »

And what if child still disobeys/acts up after getting a belt


Someone who even hits once will surly escalate and hit harder/more frequent in the event of continued misbehaviour???

And after that its murder, there would be kids getting murdered all over the damn place!!!

BLUEYK

This crap drives me nuts, people preaching right or wrong, others saying it did no harm. Simple fact is it is near on impossible to enforce unless actual physical marks or witnesses. Child reports slapping, parent denies, what next? Lock Em up Joe....kids to foster homes.

We rarely see slapping in public nowadays as perception and law has changed. However we see parents sneakily pinching or grabbing forcefully kids arms in public. At home, mental abuse can be even more damaging for a child.

I don't condone slapping. Each parent to their own to find out what works for their kids. Confiscate toys, bold corners, naughty steps, slapping, blah blah blah. Sending a child to bed without tea/supper/dinner whatever, would that be called abuse?

Physical and mental abuse, which an odd slap imo is not, should be absolutely hammered down upon. A good parent may lose it once, slap their child, go to prison? The law needs to be sensible.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

pitifulgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

And of course it is a complete co-incidence that there are huge numbers of kids who have no respect for anyone or anything in todays society. Who have no concept whatsoever of the word "consequence".

A complete co-incidence, I assure you.

This has been said about every generation for the past century.... :pac:

A Little Pony wrote: »

Seeing the way children behave nowadays, the entitlement culture they deserve a smack when they do wrong and disrespect the household rules. My house my rules. Nicola Sturgeon the tyrant should be told to go shove it.

Know what to expect with your posts at this stage anyway... As a child, my mother did hit me with a wooden spoon. She recently apologised for it and now views it as pretty abhorrent. At the time, it had no impact in terms of making me better behaved. My behaviour was related to being bullied for much of my time in school.... I never divulged bullying that I faced throughout my time in school, maybe a different relationship with my parents at time would have made me more likely to divulge the actual issue.

I have numerous nieces and nephews that are well behaved. Their parents will talk to them if they are misbehaving, I have too and it's highly effective. If violence is the resolution you have for your child's behaviour, you're most likely doing it wrong..... Do you also support corporal punishment Pony? Using violence to resolve a child's behaviour seems pretty tyrannical btw...

cbyrd

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote:

How do you enforce such a law?

If a child tells a teacher, nurse, Doctor social worker that they got smacked at home, they are obliged to report it to tusla .. if they tell a grown up its really ar their discretion. But once reported tusla will interview the child and parents and come up with a plan suitable to the 'offense' is parenting courses etc. They may also deem it necessary to forward a seperate report to the gardai, they will investigate after the tusla case is satisfied and closed.

NLC1072 wrote:

Believe it or not smacking is still legal in Ireland, only the reasons within common law defence is smacking banned. There are still other defences in Irish law that would not prohibit it.

It's not, from December 12th of 2016 it's illegal to slap a child either inside or outside of the home.

John_Rambo

I don't see kids being smacked much nowadays. But when I do they seem to be very badly behaved kids being hit at the wrong time where it doesn't really make sense to the kid, teaches them bad habits and certainly doesn't discipline them.

With what's available for parents now, the info, the resources, the websites, the books from people like David Coleman there's not much call for lazy smacking and hitting.

Strong guidance, good communication, appropriate punishment with light at the end of the tunnel for the kid along with getting to the source of the initial problem is an easier, less violent way to deal with things.

Things have moved on.

nozzferrahhtoo

bucketybuck wrote: »

There are a sizeable number of people who simply cannot grasp the very simple concept that there is a difference between disciplining a child and beating the **** out of a child.

There is always the potential of escalation once you open up the doors in your mind that violence is permitted. The shock of being hit might take a child aback the first time or two. But what happens when they realize it is not actually that painful anyway. Does one escalate? And what happens when the child is old and strong enough to hit back?

And since the violence being applied is often (predominantly?) done in a moment of temper by the parent or guardian, are they really at that time in the state of coherent control to really be gauging the level of violence being applied?

And how can it be gauged after the fact by some legal or social authority who is checking if "enough was enough" or if the guardian of the child crossed some arbitrary boundary between discipline and unacceptable violence?

bucketybuck wrote: »

And after that its murder, there would be kids getting murdered all over the damn place!!!

There have been some. Even toddlers getting shaken to death in a rage by their parents who could not abide their sound or behavior for example.

Not that a ban on violence against children will entirely eradicate that of course. But the moment violence is opened up as an acceptable and viable option the increased potential is always there that it will escalate.

Forget "all over the damn place". What quantity of children in a % or a fixed value, do you think it takes for it to switch between ok and not ok?

BLUEYK wrote: »

Simple fact is it is near on impossible to enforce unless actual physical marks or witnesses. Child reports slapping, parent denies, what next? Lock Em up Joe....kids to foster homes.

Sure you are right. But is this not also true if I walk over to you now and thwack you around a bit? Or I go home and smack my wife around a bit? Or if I sexually assault a minor?

MANY laws are hard to prosecute and can often me "their word against yours". Does that mean we should not bother having the law(s)?

BLUEYK wrote: »

A good parent may lose it once, slap their child, go to prison? The law needs to be sensible.

A good husband can lose it once, slap his wife too. Assault is assault. Violence is violence. And our attitude to it being enshrined in our laws is A-OK with me.

nozzferrahhtoo

Minderbinder wrote: »

The amount of people on here referring to a slap as violence is hilarious.

"behavior involving physical force intended to hurt"

"the use of physical force against another"

Perhaps you have another definition of violence but it is no more valid than the ones in the dictionary already and hence despite your mirth the word is accurately used on this thread. Perhaps you would prefer words like assault or abuse instead? What do YOU call it when one person not only hits another person, but hits a person who has pretty much zero ability to defend or retaliate? Bullying maybe?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

How do you enforce such a law?

How do we enforce any such law such as, say, you beating your spouse? Someone has to report the crime, someone has to investigate the crime, and then a prosecution is sought I assume?

When I am in a country where it is illegal to hit children then I am certainly actively reporting (and where possible recording for use as evidence) cases of it.

PandaPoo wrote: »

My dad had just lost his temper and lashed out. It was really out of character, my mam was a shouter so I was used to her being the disciplinarian but my dad was so gentle it completely shocked me.

With an unpleasant feeling in my stomach I realized while reading that just how many women (and some men) I have heard say the same thing when they were hit by their spouse.

Oh (s)he just lost his temper. Oh (s)he hugged me after. Oh it is so out of character usually.

nozzferrahhtoo

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Unsubstantiated assertion that I am sure you are about to back up with..... well..... something..... any moment now?

exaisle wrote: »

I don't think anybody is advocating children getting beaten up here, but I wonder if there's any correlation between the reduction in corrective corporal punishment and the rise in anti-social behaviour?

Well even if there was, it would still only be a correlation. However I question whether there even IS a rise in anti social behavior. With social media and even our news media more prone to report it for clicks, we might have the impression there is. But I have not actually seen statistics on it one way or another.

Meanwhile I have been reading reports and books like "The better angels of our nature" which have looked at global statistics and shown that things like human on human violent crime and so forth are on the decline over all.

But even if there is such a rise, I think there are a HOST of factors to blame for it and I doubt physical discipline is the problem at all. In a society where we are working longer hours and being maybe generally more tired.... perhaps the problem is parents are not doing discipline AT ALL, rather than which form it takes.

Or perhaps the parents simply have not the time and energy for giving the level of engagement and attention to their children that would mean the children would not even need discipline in the first place.

I am having trouble finding it now, but I will try harder to cite it if someone demands it of me. But I read a story recently where volunteers came together to form a community complex for entertainment of children in some country. Almost over night the reports of child and teen anti social behavior plummeted to near nothing. Whether that has been sustained I do not know, but the effect was certainly informative. The children were not being anti social for lack of discipline. They were being anti social for lack of anything better to do.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

yep and I deserved it

No child "deserves" violence. And no person deserves to be punished for the failures of another person. If a teacher or parent has failed in discipline then using violence to substitute for their own failures is not the child's fault.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

with as a result that many youngsters I encounter are such spoilt brats that expect everything and do nothing.

I dealt with this nonsense already in post #11 so you might read that. In summary though correlation is not causation. Even if there has been an increase in "brats" (I do not think there is, you are just asserting it) then there are a whole HOST Of factors that could and would be to blame for that.

Merely arbitrarily blaming the lack of use of violence as a disciplinary method is just a narrative driven bias of your own making.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

And the next time some little punk is disrespectful to me I shall transgress and give him a smack around his or her ears.

Then I can only hope you are prosecuted for assault on a stranger to the full extend of the law.

Tigger

NLC1072 wrote: »

Believe it or not smacking is still legal in Ireland, only the reasons within common law defence is smacking banned. There are still other defences in Irish law that would not prohibit it.

I'm neither for smacking nor not smacking, but I thought I would be devils advocate and point that out.

can you refrence them ?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

nozzferrahhtoo

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

No child "deserves" violence. And no person deserves to be punished for the failures of another person. If a teacher or parent has failed in discipline then using violence to substitute for their own failures is not the child's fault.

Firstly and for the final time giving a smack to a bold child is not violence simple as that so stop sprouting that rubbish. Secondly a hell of a lot of kids deserve a smack and an awful lot more than are actually getting that smack. It's amazing the manners that could have been put on the little s*its running around nowadays if they were in fear of a good smack.

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I dealt with this nonsense already in post #11 so you might read that.

You dealt with nothing, you gave your incorrect (imo) opinion that's all. There is absolutely no doubt that much of the behaviour of children and teens nowadays is a result of parents being soft and total pushovers. The fact is that yes you try to discipline children with different methods but there comes a time when a smack is required to get the message home or to stop a particularly bad or damaging (to themselves or property) behaviour.

A Little Pony

pitifulgod wrote: »

bucketybuck wrote: »

And of course it is a complete co-incidence that there are huge numbers of kids who have no respect for anyone or anything in todays society. Who have no concept whatsoever of the word "consequence".

A complete co-incidence, I assure you.

This has been said about every generation for the past century.... :pac:

A Little Pony wrote: »

Seeing the way children behave nowadays, the entitlement culture they deserve a smack when they do wrong and disrespect the household rules. My house my rules. Nicola Sturgeon the tyrant should be told to go shove it.

Know what to expect with your posts at this stage anyway... As a child, my mother did hit me with a wooden spoon. She recently apologised for it and now views it as pretty abhorrent. At the time, it had no impact in terms of making me better behaved. My behaviour was related to being bullied for much of my time in school.... I never divulged bullying that I faced throughout my time in school, maybe a different relationship with my parents at time would have made me more likely to divulge the actual issue.

I have numerous nieces and nephews that are well behaved. Their parents will talk to them if they are misbehaving, I have too and it's highly effective. If violence is the resolution you have for your child's behaviour, you're most likely doing it wrong..... Do you also support corporal punishment Pony? Using violence to resolve a child's behaviour seems pretty tyrannical btw...

Yes I do. I support discipline with a tap if required. I support all parents to discipline their child with physical needs within reason.

pitifulgod

A Little Pony wrote: »

Yes I do. I support discipline with a tap if required. I support all parents to discipline their child with physical needs within reason.

There's no proven benefit to doing so. Eg in my case for example, it made me worse and more closed off from my parents. Do you have any proper evidence that hitting children is beneficial? You seem to have a long list of regressive ideas that you can never back up.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

They found that spanking was associated with 13 out of a total of 17 negative outcomes they assessed, including increased aggression and behavioral and mental health problems as well as reduced cognitive ability and self-esteem.

_Dara_

When I got smacked as a kid, it just made me feel angry and resentful. That’s all it did. Not great emotions to be normalising! And I still misbehaved. It’s not a preventative measure.

How are my brother-in-law’s kids so well-behaved without smacking? What would introducing smacking do for these kids that they are not getting now?

For some, it seems to be: don’t dole out smacks and you’ll have unruly kids, smack your children and they’ll be angels. Well, that’s nonsense. Every single person here has met well-behaved kids whose parents don’t smack them, and badly-behaved kids whose parents do.

eviltwin

I've never smacked my kids and they've managed to grow up to be decent human beings. No need for it and anyone who claims there is is just being a lazy parent. Hitting a kid is never okay.

John_Rambo

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Firstly and for the final time giving a smack to a bold child is not violence simple as that so stop sprouting that rubbish. Secondly a hell of a lot of kids deserve a smack and an awful lot more than are actually getting that smack. It's amazing the manners that could have been put on the little s*its running around nowadays if they were in fear of a good smack.



You dealt with nothing, you gave your incorrect (imo) opinion that's all. There is absolutely no doubt that much of the behaviour of children and teens nowadays is a result of parents being soft and total pushovers. The fact is that yes you try to discipline children with different methods but there comes a time when a smack is required to get the message home or to stop a particularly bad or damaging (to themselves or property) behaviour.

Where are you seeing all these kids that you need smacking Nox? What exactly are they doing that has a horn on you for hitting them? I find kids I come across are pretty good and well behaved with good manners.

Do you intend to have kids and hit them or would you try and raise them and teach them discipline without hitting them?

Would you say most prisoners in mountjoy were hit and slapped as kids or would you say their parents were "soft and total pushovers"?

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Where are you seeing all these kids that you need smacking Nox? What exactly are they doing that has a horn on you for hitting them? I find kids I come across are pretty good and well behaved with good manners.

Do you intend to have kids and hit them or would you try and raise them and teach them discipline without hitting them?

Would you say most prisoners in mountjoy were hit and slapped as kids or would you say their parents were "soft and total pushovers"?

Its not current kids as such (though there are some right brats around too) but the teens who were the kids of soft pushover parents. These types of teens are everywhere and are total trouble makers and would all have benefited from a good smack. In fact I think a lot of them should be given a good thump still.

If/when I have kids I will have no issue giving them a smack if required same as I never had an issue giving a smack to siblings or cousins when they needed it when they were kids. Its obvioulsy not the first punishment you reach for but there is a time its needed and used correctly the threat of it can be often enough going forward. All this talk of other options and "no need for it nowadays" don't really wash with me, there are times when its required and the lack of it is resulting in worse behaved kids and teens.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Its not current kids as such (though there are some right brats around too) but the teens who were the kids of soft pushover parents. These types of teens are everywhere and are total trouble makers and would all have benefited from a good smack. In fact I think a lot of them should be given a good thump sill.

If/when I have kids I will have no issue giving them a smack if required same as I never had an issue giving a smack to siblings or cousins when they needed it when they were kids. Its obvioulsy not the first punishment you reach for but there is a time its needed and used correctly the threat of it can be often enough going forward. All this talk of other options and "no need for it nowadays" don't really wash with me, there are times when its required and the lack of it is resulting in worse behaved kids and teens.

That tells me everything I need to know about your stance. If you know the right punishment to reach for every time, then you won't need to hit out.

I'd also argue that tearaway teenagers were the ones that were hit regularly as kids and became desenistized to it. It doesn't teach them right from wrong. What it does teach them is to not get caught, and therein lies the problem with rule by fear v rule by respect: at some point, the kids grow out of the fear.

John_Rambo

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

All this talk of other options and "no need for it nowadays" don't really wash with me, there are times when its required and the lack of it is resulting in worse behaved kids and teens.

It's not all talk Nox. It's from peoples experience raising kids.

You're a well educated young man from a wealthy background with plenty of financial and family support. I'm sure that you'll be smart enough to raise kids without having to resort to hitting them to try and get them to behave.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's not all talk Nox. It's from peoples experience raising kids.

You're a well educated young man from a wealthy background with plenty of financial and family support. I'm sure that you'll be smart enough to raise kids without having to resort to hitting them to try and get them to behave.

Firstly you have no idea whatsoever about my background, you just made up a few points and said them as though they were fact.

Secondly I would have considered myself to have been raised very well and that involved an occasional smack every now at then (both at home and at school) so why would I change a formula that works?

eviltwin

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Firstly you have no idea whatsoever about my background, you just made up a few points and said them as though they were fact.

Secondly I would have considered myself to have been raised very well and that involved an occasional smack every now at then (both at home and at school) so why would I change a formula that works?

It's not the only option. Smacking is often discussed as if it's the only discipline that works, that kids who aren't smacked grow up to be deviant. If smacking is a last resort as so many say, why not try the alternatives first before hurting a child physically?

John_Rambo

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Firstly you have no idea whatsoever about my background, you just made up a few points and said them as though they were fact.

I know lots about your background, your education, where you're from, your childhood growing up on the family farm close to your extended family. I know what height you are, how many hours you work, what car you drive, how old it is. Jesus Nox, you're obsessed with giving out personal details about yourself on boards, from how often you change your underwear, how often you change your bed linen to how you yearn to be a landlord so much.

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Secondly I would have considered myself to have been raised very well and that involved an occasional smack every now at then (both at home and at school) so why would I change a formula that works?

Things move on and change. There's more info out there now. Why continue with the old formula when there's better, more painless, more successful ones out there.

screamer

I've seen kids get battered in supermarkets by scumbags that call themselves parents. Worst I ever saw was a child about 8 who was hit repeatedly and eventually said Mammy I'm hungry. At which point she slapped him through the face. That is not discipline that is abuse and should never happen. No child should live in fear of the ones who are supposed to love them most and protect them from harm

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know lots about your background, your education, where you're from, your childhood growing up on the family farm close to your extended family. I know what height you are, how many hours you work, what car you drive, how old it is. Jesus Nox, you're obsessed with giving out personal details about yourself on boards, from how often you change your underwear, how often you change your bed linen to how you yearn to be a landlord so much.

You might have a rough idea of a few general details but that's it, you might think you know a lot but in reality its all quite vague and generic information you have. Also you have no idea where I live which was confirmed when you said where and it's nowhere close.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Things move on and change. There's more info out there now. Why continue with the old formula when there's better, more painless, more successful ones out there.

That's the problem, there isn't better ways for all scenarios. Some appear to think there is but many even on this thread agree that in many cases it doesn't work and that the use of a smack still very much has it's place.

One eyed Jack

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

The questions and points I used for one user before he basically upped and ran away from the thread are relevant here too I feel.

They're really not, and they weren't relevant then either, because they weren't addressing anything I had written, and I didn't "run away" from any thread. I felt the thread had simply run it's course and was going around in circles at that stage.

Tigger wrote: »

can you refrence them ?

What they're referring to is the fact that contrary to popular belief perpetuated on social media, it is actually not illegal for a parent to smack their child. There is no offence referring to a parent being guilty of an offence for smacking their child, and even assault is not a strict liability offence, so while a parent could always be charged with assault, they maintain the presumption of innocence, until they are found guilty of having committed a criminal act.

The laymans terms and dictionary definitions of assault or violence are irrelevant in a Court of Law. There is a standard in Irish law which constitutes the offence of assault, and it would be up to the investigating Gardaí to determine whether a person could be charged with having committed an offence, and further up to the DPP to determine if a prosecution was in the public interest.

Trials by internet by less informed persons are completely irrelevant in any case.

cbyrd

One eyed Jack wrote:

What they're referring to is the fact that contrary to popular belief perpetuated on social media, it is actually not illegal for a parent to smack their child. There is no offence referring to a parent being guilty of an offence for smacking their child, and even assault is not a strict liability offence, so while a parent could always be charged with assault, they maintain the presumption of innocence, until they are found guilty of having committed a criminal act.

It is illegal to slap your child in Ireland, inside or outside the home. The law came into force on December 12th last year.
If reported to tusla, if the child admits to being slapped (truth or not) a file will be sent to the gardaí.
How hard the child was slapped, the frequency of incidents will all be taken into consideration when being assessed.
But its still illegal.

One eyed Jack

cbyrd wrote: »

It is illegal to slap your child in Ireland, inside or outside the home. The law came into force on December 12th last year.
If reported to tusla, if the child admits to being slapped (truth or not) a file will be sent to the gardaí.
How hard the child was slapped, the frequency of incidents will all be taken into consideration when being assessed.
But its still illegal.

What law are you referring to?

I won't get into the intricacies of how the process should work in theory with how it actually works in practice, as there are far too many cases I'm aware of where a process like that just isn't common practice, as observed in the report linked in this article (it's a bit of a read!) -

Child protection report: 'We cannot fail children a second time', says Ombudsman for Children

John_Rambo

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

That's the problem, there isn't better ways for all scenarios. Some appear to think there is but many even on this thread agree that in many cases it doesn't work and that the use of a smack still very much has it's place.

If you get it right from the get-go there will be no need for smacking.

Trust me. I know this from experience.

There's no need for hitting kids unless you're doing it wrong, spoiling the kids and letting them do what they want (then hitting is pretty unfair after that carry on). You'll find when you have your own kids you won't be as keen to hit them as much as you do with other peoples kids.

I also find it hard to believe that other parents (siblings or not) allow you to hit their kids. I'll put that down to your usual penchant for making up stories and scenarios to back up your theories. If you were my brother that took to hitting my kids you'd be taught a lesson.

Hopefully your future co-parent will be a strong parent and raise kids that don't need to be smacked by you.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

I also find it hard to believe that other parents (siblings or not) allow you to hit their kids. I'll put that down to your usual penchant for making up stories and scenarios to back up your theories. If you were my brother that took to hitting my kids you'd be taught a lesson.

I meant my actual siblings themselves when they were children and my cousins (children of my aunts and uncles who all used a smack themselves when required).

John_Rambo wrote: »

Hopefully your future co-parent will be a strong parent and raise kids that don't need to be smacked by you.

Very much in agreement that kids at times need a smack and the lack of this is the reason for many of the bad kids and teens we have nowadays

eviltwin

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Very much in agreement that kids at times need a smack and the lack of this is the reason for many of the bad kids and teens we have nowadays

Complete crap.What behaviour exactly could you be referring to that would require a child to be smacked? And as for you belief that kids who aren't slapped are bad kids,come back to us when you actually are a parent and know what you're on about because right now you're talking out of your arse. Many parents here have said they don't smack. Either you think they are lying or have raised out of control kids. Which is it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Very much in agreement that kids at times need a smack and the lack of this is the reason for many of the bad kids and teens we have nowadays

You said this yesterday, I challenged it but you failed to reply. Care to try this time?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'd also argue that tearaway teenagers were the ones that were hit regularly as kids and became desenistized to it. It doesn't teach them right from wrong. What it does teach them is to not get caught, and therein lies the problem with rule by fear v rule by respect: at some point, the kids grow out of the fear.

(Incedently, the winky face gives me the impression you've changed your stance but are too proud to admit it and are going for the moral high ground...)

John_Rambo

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

I meant my actual siblings themselves when they were children and my cousins (children of my aunts and uncles who all used a smack themselves when required).

My advice to you is not to touch or hit kids that don't want to be touched or hit. You'll land yourself in trouble not heeding my advice.

Maximilian Lively Sharkskin wrote: »

Very much in agreement that kids at times need a smack and the lack of this is the reason for many of the bad kids and teens we have nowadays

We're not in agreement here. Strong and disciplined parenting has no need for hitting or smacking. You need to learn this before you have kids. Creating boundaries and suitable non-violent punishments and rewards is easier and less stressful for parents and children.

I find it funny that it's the people with no kids on this thread are the only ones advocating the hitting of children, and I truly believe that you won't hit your kids, it's just the usual internet forum guff and bluff that you like to expound to garner reaction.

There's another pearl of wisdom I'll share with you; ease off the alcohol abuse. The levels of drinking you're proud of posting on boards.ie will be detrimental to parenthood and will certainly shorten your temper and lead to impatient, knee jerk reactions.

If you're planning to have kids, plan to raise them well and won't have to resort to hitting them.

Take heed, act responsibly, be a good non-violent parent. I'll leave it at that.

The One Doctor

bucketybuck wrote: »

And of course it is a complete co-incidence that there are huge numbers of kids who have no respect for anyone or anything in todays society. Who have no concept whatsoever of the word "consequence".

A complete co-incidence, I assure you.

Ah, the hoary old chestnut of 'Things were better in my day.'

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

My advice to you is not to touch or hit kids that don't want to be touched or hit. You'll land yourself in trouble not heeding my advice.

What are you talking about here? Its certainly not relevant to anything I've been saying.

John_Rambo wrote: »

We're not in agreement here. .

I was talking about me and my OH being in agreement on this not you and me.

eviltwin wrote: »

Complete crap.What behaviour exactly could you be referring to that would require a child to be smacked?

Various different things, but as a generic answer being bold and continuing to do so after other methods of getting them to cop on fails, doing something dangerous than needs a swift and immediate indication that its not on etc etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You said this yesterday, I challenged it but you failed to reply. Care to try this time?

(Incedently, the winky face gives me the impression you've changed your stance but are too proud to admit it and are going for the moral high ground...)

What reply are you looking for? My stance has not changed at all, just because its not the first choice of punishment does not mean its not an option. If you have a headache you don't go straight for the doctor for an antibiotic you try having a lie down, then a panadol but if it persists then you might need to go to the doctor. Just because its not the first option does not mean its never necessary.

It may never be necessary but my point is that as far as I'm concerned its a valid option if a situation calls for it. I really think people need to understand the difference between beating a child which is obvioulsy very much not on and a clip on the ear or a lightish smack to let them know they need to cop on.

PopePalpatine

screamer wrote: »

I've seen kids get battered in supermarkets by scumbags that call themselves parents. Worst I ever saw was a child about 8 who was hit repeatedly and eventually said Mammy I'm hungry. At which point she slapped him through the face. That is not discipline that is abuse and should never happen. No child should live in fear of the ones who are supposed to love them most and protect them from harm

Shur according to nox that's the decent God-fearing way of raising kids.

PopePalpatine

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Shur according to nox that's the decent God-fearing way of raising kids.

As above there is a world of difference between beating a child and a light smack. If you can't see the difference well then I'm not sure where a person would start with the explanation.