#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

Outlaw Pete

kylith wrote: »

Instead of wringing your hands about women 'going back to a Victorian notion' why aren't you getting bent out of shape about the fact that in the 21st century men can't be trusted to keep their hands to themselves and need a chaperone to keep an eye on them?

*Some* men.

professore

kylith wrote: »

Donal55 wrote: »

Jeez, if life is like that well then perhaps they shouldn't leave the house. This isn't Mad Max territory. What do all those women do that go to work and queue for buses, trains, trams etc.

Or that triage nurse I met yesterday on her own when I went to A & E.

Have you not been paying attention?

We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
We get groped in pubs.
We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
Men we don't know are threats
Men we do know are even bigger threats
The single biggest threat to women is men

What a way to live your life. I genuinely feel sorry for you. Do you not have any friends who will tell the man to **** off? Can you not tell him to **** off yourself? Scream at him? Learn some self defence moves?

You think men don't have many of the same threats as you do and are much more likely to be physically assaulted than you are?

I'm not making light of your points but short of killing every man out there I don't see what your solution is. Also women regularly assault each other too.

professore

Icemancometh wrote: »

Mickeroo wrote: »

I presume the chaperone wasn't male as that would have doubled the "threat" but then what if the chaperone also felt threatened by him? Probably should start training dogs for this sort of thing.

I imagine the chaperone was for Schwimmer's benefit.

I'm sure Weinstein could have had any number of female chaperones aiding and abetting him at the height of his power. In fact by saying nothing all these years, he actually did.

Wibbs

kylith wrote: »

Have you not been paying attention?

We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
We get groped in pubs.
We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
Men we don't know are threats
Men we do know are even bigger threats
The single biggest threat to women is men

Ok we get it. Women™ are under a near constant barrage of threats from Men™. Right so, how do you think you change that? More nonsense like the campaigns that tell men to stop other men from raping?* More daft hashtag Arsebook campaigns that will do precisely nothing and will be off the front page and public consciousness within the month. What's your solution?




*It's not as if men don't see rapists as the worst scum in the world already. Even the lowest of the low among the prison population will attack and even kill rapists among them.

Macmillan150

Is there ANY woman here who hasn't been approached inappropriately in some way. The #metoo is to show that this is so so widespread. Men don't believe it unless it has happened to them. But men still don't believe it. The " not all men" thing is grand to hide behind and many men believe this stuff is done by only a few men. But it is done by many many many men.
Does my husband or dad know that I was 10 the first time a man grabbed my crotch ( or a thousand other incidences that happened along the way). No, because women do not talk about it. Go ask your girlfriends to list out all the times they were touched when they didn't want to be when and I'm sure they will tell you. But I'm betting they will tell you loads but edit out the really bad things, the things that hurt too much to mention, the ones that can't be just tutted away. I didn't join the metoo thing on my public profiles because what's the point. Men don't think there's a problem. If there's no problem there's no need for s solution.

kylith

professore wrote: »

What a way to live your life. I genuinely feel sorry for you. Do you not have any friends who will tell the man to **** off? Can you not tell him to **** off yourself? Scream at him? Learn some self defence moves?.

See above reactions to a woman telling the man who whistled at her to f off.

If we say nothing we 'should have said something'. If we say something then we're lying or overreacting.

professore wrote: »

You think men don't have many of the same threats as you do and are much more likely to be physically assaulted than you are? .

Yes, men get physically assaulted, but we're not talking about that right now.

professore wrote: »

I'm not making light of your points but short of killing every man out there I don't see what your solution is.

Well, there is the teaching about consent in sex-ed classes, but a lot of people, mainly men, seem to be against that.

In the US there's an ongoing trend of girls being sent home from school to change clothes because their shorts are 'distracting the boys'. Teaching boys not to stare at girls could be an idea there.

We could stop laughing off men saying distasteful things about women as 'locker room talk'.

We could stop using the phrase 'boys will be boys' when they are being inappropriate, since it excuses them from having any responsibility for their actions.

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

What a way to live your life. I genuinely feel sorry for you. Do you not have any friends who will tell the man to **** off? Can you not tell him to **** off yourself? Scream at him? Learn some self defence moves?

You think men don't have many of the same threats as you do and are much more likely to be physically assaulted than you are?

I'm not making light of your points but short of killing every man out there I don't see what your solution is. Also women regularly assault each other too.

I've had a group of men (in their 20s id say) walk behind me late at night and they actually discussed loudly how a "woman like her" shouldn't be out walking in the dark cause "men would be all over that". They found this hilarious. Discussed how if I was their "moth" they wouldn't even let me out in the daytime. All this kind of stuff. While I was alone and they were in a group behind me. They were clearly saying it loud enough for me to hear. God knows why, but they were getting some sort of entertainment from it. Was I supposed to turn around and tell them to **** off? Would they have accepted that and said "oh right sorry for that". Me against 7 or 8 men who were discussing me in that way? Sometimes you do have to just put safety first and hope they will go away and keep the key in your hand in case they don't. I get that the above example is more than just one man wolf whistling but sometimes one man can feel just as intimidating as a group, especially if they are being physical because you just don't know if It will escalate. It depends on the context.
And for what it's worth I personally don't mind the odd wolf whistle but that's not really the point I guess.

Donal55

kylith wrote: »

Have you not been paying attention?

We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
We get groped in pubs.
We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
Men we don't know are threats
Men we do know are even bigger threats
The single biggest threat to women is men

Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

neonsofa

Donal55 wrote: »

Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

My dad doesn't know of all the times men have harassed or intimidated me.

RacoonQueen

kylith wrote: »

Have you not been paying attention?

We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
We get groped in pubs.
We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
Men we don't know are threats
Men we do know are even bigger threats
The single biggest threat to women is men

We have just met the end of procreation.

kylith

Donal55 wrote: »

Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

Have you asked them if a man has ever made them feel intimidated, or has behaved inappropriately to them?

Donal55

kylith wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

Your words; 'FOR NO GOOD REASON.'

backspin.

kylith wrote: »

It's sad when meeting a man that you need a guardian in case he attacks you.

He was protecting himself by offering one.
She didn't ask.

B0jangles

Donal55 wrote: »

Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

I'm sorry but you are 100% fooling yourself. I've never told my father about the various incidents of harassment/assault that have happened to me either - what would be the point?

Like Kylith says, he'd just be angry and upset and to no useful purpose.

silverharp

neonsofa wrote: »

I've had a group of men (in their 20s id say) walk behind me late at night and they actually discussed loudly how a "woman like her" shouldn't be out walking in the dark cause "men would be all over that". They found this hilarious. Discussed how if I was their "moth" they wouldn't even let me out in the daytime. All this kind of stuff. While I was alone and they were in a group behind me. They were clearly saying it loud enough for me to hear. God knows why, but they were getting some sort of entertainment from it. Was I supposed to turn around and tell them to **** off? Would they have accepted that and said "oh right sorry for that". Me against 7 or 8 men who were discussing me in that way? Sometimes you do have to just put safety first and hope they will go away and keep the key in your hand in case they don't. I get that the above example is more than just one man wolf whistling but sometimes one man can feel just as intimidating as a group, especially if they are being physical because you just don't know if It will escalate. It depends on the context.
And for what it's worth I personally don't mind the odd wolf whistle but that's not really the point I guess.

the male version of that is having a bunch of scobies pretend to mug or attack you. Ive had a group stand in front of me when I was jogging, Ive had someone pretend to punch me, I had to just grit my teeth and move on and I probably havnt seen the half of it as I tend to avoid rough areas. lets face it there is small minority that make it difficult for both sexes to go about their life in safely.

backspin.

professore wrote: »

You lost me at patriarchal. Come back to me when you can discuss topics free of dogmatic religious add ideological belief systems.

We certainly don't live in a patriarchy. If anything we live in a female-centric society these days. Women's issues and interests are paramount. Pretty much all institutions work in their favour.

backspin.

kylith wrote: »

The single biggest threat to women is men

Some men.

Wibbs

Macmillan150 wrote: »

Is there ANY woman here who hasn't been approached inappropriately in some way. The #metoo is to show that this is so so widespread. Men don't believe it unless it has happened to them. But men still don't believe it. The " not all men" thing is grand to hide behind and many men believe this stuff is done by only a few men. But it is done by many many many men.

OK.

Does my husband or dad know that I was 10 the first time a man grabbed my crotch ( or a thousand other incidences that happened along the way). No, because women do not talk about it.

So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Men don't think there's a problem. If there's no problem there's no need for s solution.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

Donal55

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are 100% fooling yourself. I've never told my father about the various incidents of harassment/assault that have happened to me either - what would be the point?

Like Kylith says, he'd just be angry and upset and to no useful purpose.

They talk to their mother.

kylith

Donal55 wrote: »

Your words; 'FOR NO GOOD REASON.'

Because he wouldn't have been able to do about it, that was the reason.

Do you really think that a man sticking his hand up a woman's dress is no reason to get upset?

I was upset, and angry, and my then BF was all for going after the guy but, again, there really wouldn't have been anything he could have done.

B0jangles

Donal55 wrote: »

They talk to their mother.

And you think she repeats back everything they tell her to you? Even if they specifically ask her not to?

anewme

kylith wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

That's the reality of it. As teenagers, we'd make sure not to say anything in case we were not let out again.

One example, three of us were let off away with our friend's family who had a boat. A relation of the family came as well, who we quickly copped on was a major perve. One of the objectives of the Holiday became to avoid getting groped or cornered by the perve. We were approx. 15 and said pervo must have been mid 40's. Our friend did not tell her parents who were on the holiday either, in case there were no more holidays. Holiday with a trip hazard of avoiding a sleazy perve is much better then no holiday. It was never sn option for any if us to tell the adults.

That's only one example, another one, two of us sent off shopping with a friends sleazy uncle. Lots of questions about had we boyfriends and what we did with them and also what size bra we wore. Hmmm, think this is a bit suspect. Anyway, in we go to a newsagents where a girl working was bending over pricing items with one of those old fashioned pricing guns that stuck prices in everything. She was wearing jeans and had a big ass. Yer man sneaks up behind her and literally jumps on her and gropes her. She got an awful fright and jumped up. We did not tell the parents at all when we went back either!

kylith

Wibbs wrote: »

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

So we don't say anything and you're giving out that men aren't psychic. But when we do speak out people say we're blowing things out of proportion and jumping on a bandwagon. Can you not see the issue with that.

Donal55 wrote: »

They talk to their mother.

Do you think we necessarily tell our mothers either? We don't, for the same reasons: they'd be upset and angry, and angry that there is nothing they can do about it.

B0jangles

Wibbs wrote: »

OK.
So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

Wibbs, poster after poster has decribed incidents where this kind of stuff has happened to them and you, and many other posters keep talking it down. That is a huge part of the problem that you cannot or will not acknowledge.

Women talk about this stuff all the time and either they aren't believed, they are exaggerating, it's actually worse for men, men get sexually assaulted too, #notallmen etc. etc. etc.

Is it any wonder women just don't tell the men in their lives about it any more - what's the bloody point?

professore

So basically it happens all the time to women but they NEVER tell the men in their lives about it. Well then they shouldn't be surprised that men don't believe it happens as much as you say it does here anonymously.

And consent classes? They are the stupidest idea ever. About as stupid and insulting as teaching adults it's wrong to steal, cheat, lie etc.

B0jangles

kylith wrote: »

Do you think we necessarily tell our mothers either? We don't, for the same reasons: they'd be upset and angry, and angry that there is nothing they can do about it.

As an aside I got talking to my own mother about this kind of stuff yesterday and we ended up swapping stories about the things that have happened to us, and you know, there really wasn't much difference between her youth and mine. It was quite depressing really.

B0jangles

professore wrote: »

So basically it happens all the time to women but they NEVER tell the men in their lives about it. Well then they shouldn't be surprised that men don't believe it happens as much as you say it does here anonymously.

And consent classes? They are the stupidest idea ever. About as stupid and insulting as teaching adults it's wrong to steal, cheat, lie etc.

Lol, read the thread.

Women aren't believed when they do tell, so after a while you learn not to waste the time and effort. Problem goes right back to being ignored, everyone's happy!

take everything

Good bit by Katie Glass on this in the Sunday Times today

anewme

B0jangles wrote: »

As an aside I got talking to my own mother about this kind of stuff yesterday and we ended up swapping stories about the things that have happened to us, and you know, there really wasn't much difference between her youth and mine. It was quite depressing really.

I also thought if all the things that had happened to me from the ages of about 13-14 to current today 40's. , where you still get incidents. I must have about 40 incidents or even more, some mild and even funny but some very serious and dangerous.

Only thing is now I'm better equipped to deal with. Feel sorry for my two little nieces.

suicide_circus

kylith wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

Have you asked them if a man has ever made them feel intimidated, or has behaved inappropriately to them?

You've clearly been through a lot and have come out the other side understandably broken and bitter.

neonsofa

silverharp wrote: »

the male version of that is having a bunch of scobies pretend to mug or attack you. Ive had a group stand in front of me when I was jogging, Ive had someone pretend to punch me, I had to just grit my teeth and move on and I probably havnt seen the half of it as I tend to avoid rough areas. lets face it there is small minority that make it difficult for both sexes to go about their life in safely.

And just like me, you didn't tell them to **** off (or maybe you did?) you just grit your teeth and move on for your own safety. That was my point, it's not always easy to confront that kind of behaviour. I wasn't saying it was a scenario exclusive to my sex/gender. I was pointing out how its not always as easy as saying "well just tell them to stop".

B0jangles

suicide_circus wrote: »

You've clearly been through a lot and have come out the other side understandably broken and bitter.

Aaaaaand, there it is.

If all else fails you're a broken and bitter harpy who just HATES ALL MEN.

Anything to avoid acknowledging that there is a problem.

anewme

When you have men believing that young girls (teenagers) from a very young age set out to manipulate adult men using sex, this kind of behaviour is condoned instead of being stamped out.

sonic85

What do you want us to do about it - serious question? Can the women on the thread actually give solutions to this in a clear and concise way?

I don't do pubs or clubs anymore so I don't see some of the drunken sh!t that happens but in my everyday life I haven't seen much in the way of the harassment that women say they've endured. All I can say from my own point of view is if my sister or mother told me about something that happened to them and I knew who did it they'd never lay their hand on another woman again

HalloweenJack

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

The other side is the undermining the accused right to a fair defense.

How so? The people I've seen posting it haven't been naming the responsible party or even talking about their experience, just drawing attention to the fact that it happens and I think that's a good thing.

I haven't read every single "me too" post/tweet so I don't know, I'm just going off the ones I've seen.

professore

B0jangles wrote: »

professore wrote: »

So basically it happens all the time to women but they NEVER tell the men in their lives about it. Well then they shouldn't be surprised that men don't believe it happens as much as you say it does here anonymously.

And consent classes? They are the stupidest idea ever. About as stupid and insulting as teaching adults it's wrong to steal, cheat, lie etc.

Lol, read the thread.

Women aren't believed when they do tell, so after a while you learn not to waste the time and effort. Problem goes right back to being ignored, everyone's happy!

I'm 46. My mother has told me stuff about creepy men. Another poster talked about a creepy uncle. Do you really believe I would believe my brother over my daughters? Really?????

I would like to think if any man ever tried weird **** with my wife or daughters they would tell me. In fact I'd be extremely disappointed in them if they didn't. And they have on a few occasions.

No one is saying this doesn't happen. Of course it does. What I am saying is by saying nothing you are part of the problem.

Wibbs

B0jangles wrote: »

Wibbs, poster after poster has decribed incidents where this kind of stuff has happened to them and you, and many other posters keep talking it down.

This is also becoming a pain in my arse. Please point out where I talked any poster's experiences down. Once will do, or stop lying about what I've said or haven't said. You're not the only poster who has come out with this kind of misrepresentation on this score. Though colour me shocked.

Is it any wonder women just don't tell the men in their lives about it any more - what's the bloody point?

Apparently they never or very rarely tell men about all these threats and assaults. It's not just a recent thing, even your mother's experiences mirrored your own. What's the bloody point is an easy out and again it's Men's™ fault, even though apparently Women™ don't say anything and haven't for generations. Though again that's hardly accurate, certainly in the last twenty odd years. Society is constantly being reminded how women are near constant victims of sexual harassment and assault and sexism and so forth. It's a mainstay of western society and extremely so in the media.

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

I'm 46. My mother has told me stuff about creepy men. Another poster talked about a creepy uncle. Do you really believe I would believe my brother over my daughters? Really?????

I would like to think if any man ever tried weird **** with my wife or daughters they would tell me. In fact I'd be extremely disappointed in them if they didn't. And they have on a few occasions.

No one is saying this doesn't happen. Of course it does. What I am saying is by saying nothing you are part of the problem.

By saying nothing to her dad?

suicide_circus

B0jangles wrote: »

Aaaaaand, there it is.

If all else fails you're a broken and bitter harpy who just HATES ALL MEN.

Anything to avoid acknowledging that there is a problem.

Can't both things be true? Although I never used the word harpy or even implied it, you added that yourself.

Wibbs

anewme wrote: »

When you have men believing that young girls (teenagers) from a very young age set out to manipulate adult men using sex, this kind of behaviour is condoned instead of being stamped out.

All men? Most men? Some men? Christ almighty. This polarised nonsense is getting beyond a joke at this stage.

anewme

suicide_circus wrote: »

You've clearly been through a lot and have come out the other side understandably broken and bitter.

B0jangles wrote: »

Aaaaaand, there it is.

If all else fails you're a broken and bitter harpy who just HATES ALL MEN.

Anything to avoid acknowledging that there is a problem.

That attitude ( you must be broken) is poison and to change things, maybe start changing this.

professore

anewme wrote: »

When you have men believing that young girls (teenagers) from a very young age set out to manipulate adult men using sex, this kind of behaviour is condoned instead of being stamped out.

You are conflating two unrelated things. SOME women use sex to manipulate men, just as SOME men are perverts. Maybe you don't know it happens because your father, son or husband wouldn't be believed if they told you?

Wibbs

sonic85 wrote: »

What do you want us to do about it - serious question? Can the women on the thread actually give solutions to this in a clear and concise way?

*sound of crickets*

suicide_circus

Let's change "men" to "black people" in this thread.

One eyed Jack

kylith wrote: »

Have you not been paying attention?

We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
We get groped in pubs.
We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
Men we don't know are threats
Men we do know are even bigger threats
The single biggest threat to women is men

Kylith I'll be honest, I was almost sure you were going for sarcasm with that post, the last line being the 'giveaway' as such that you were purposely exaggerating to parody some of the more extreme wacky stuff that's put out there on social media.

This I think is the problem at the core of using social media to get your message across, to anyone really. Having read your subsequent posts, I now realise that you were being serious, but the problem is that while I do believe you... I just can't take that post seriously!

I believe you think men are the biggest threat to women, but I don't believe they actually are, and a claim like that is not something I would expect anyone, regardless of their sex, should ever actually be expected to take seriously. I don't believe it's a message that does anything either for women, or for men.

Macmillan150 wrote: »

Is there ANY woman here who hasn't been approached inappropriately in some way. The #metoo is to show that this is so so widespread. Men don't believe it unless it has happened to them. But men still don't believe it. The " not all men" thing is grand to hide behind and many men believe this stuff is done by only a few men. But it is done by many many many men.
Does my husband or dad know that I was 10 the first time a man grabbed my crotch ( or a thousand other incidences that happened along the way). No, because women do not talk about it. Go ask your girlfriends to list out all the times they were touched when they didn't want to be when and I'm sure they will tell you. But I'm betting they will tell you loads but edit out the really bad things, the things that hurt too much to mention, the ones that can't be just tutted away. I didn't join the metoo thing on my public profiles because what's the point. Men don't think there's a problem. If there's no problem there's no need for s solution.

I know there's a problem, and I've talked to many young girls and women who have experienced a whole spectrum of inappropriate and untoward behaviour perpetrated by men, and the young girls and women I talk to and have talked to, don't filter anything. I've always taken what they've said seriously, for the simple reason that they have never tried to blame me (apart from one false allegation of rape which saw me being beaten within an inch of my life because other men took her claim seriously, but I don't blame her for the actions of those men), and they have never tried to blame all men, and they have never bothered with simplistic platitudes and hashtags thinking that would ever undo what was done to them, that it would even go anywhere near being any kind of a cathartic closure they wanted, that it would ever make any real impact on what they experienced, that they would ever gain anything from prostrating themselves on social media for validation.

The metoo hashtag means something to some people obviously, but to many more people, it simply means nothing more than the typical virtue signalling that's become so common on social media as a means of validation, literally saying to their peers "me too", because being seen as a victim of something, anything, and being seen as a "survivor" of something, anything, is now popular social currency, which has value for those who trade in that currency, but to anyone else, it has no value whatsoever, and never actually contributes anything of any value to society. It's just another way to say "me too". It's not that I don't want to take someone who says "me too" seriously, it's that I just can't, and that's nothing to do with me being a man, it's to do with being falsely accused of something I haven't done, by some anonymous person on the internet that I don't know and have never met, nor have any inclination to want to get to know tbh. It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I simply find it very hard to care about anyone who would infer that I should help them because I'm a problem to them. I don't see any beneficial outcome for either of us when that's their starting position.

anewme

Wibbs wrote: »

All men? Most men? Some men? Christ almighty. This polarised nonsense is getting beyond a joke at this stage.

It is from another thread on Boards yesterday. Two people objected. The majority of other posters rounded on the two that objected instead of objecting to the attitude.

professore

It's baffling. The vast majority of men are disgusted by rape and sexual assault. Yet somehow we are all told we are the problem when a woman gets sexually assaulted and doesn't tell us about it. Sure a few more consent classes would have given us telepathy.

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

It's baffling. The vast majority of men are disgusted by rape and sexual assault. Yet somehow we are all told we are the problem when a woman gets sexually assaulted and doesn't tell us about it. Sure a few more consent classes would have given us telepathy.

Are you talking about a specific post here or the general me too hashtag?

B0jangles

sonic85 wrote: »

What do you want us to do about it - serious question? Can the women on the thread actually give solutions to this in a clear and concise way?

I don't do pubs or clubs anymore so I don't see some of the drunken sh!t that happens but in my everyday life I haven't seen much in the way of the harassment that women say they've endured. All I can say from my own point of view is if my sister or mother told me about something that happened to them and I knew who did it they'd never lay their hand on another woman again

A really good start would be to just listen and actually believe women when they tell you about the harassment they've experienced.

In my experience, one of the commonest reactions is for the listener to jump to trying to explain away what happened as drunken messing, or a misunderstanding, or... some other convoluted explanation for why what happened didn't actually happen. Don't feel like you can make the incident simply not have happened if you explain it away well enough.

Immediately threatening to attack the perpatrator is not actually helpful; you might feel a lot better but it might make things more difficult for your sister/mother. They might actually be wary of telling you about stuff like this if they think you're going to head off and start cracking heads open.

What happens if you go overboard and he ends up seriously injured or dead? Trial + prison for you, massive guilt for having told you for your mother/sister.

The last is the most contentious - if you know one of your friends gets obnoxious and 'handsy' when he's drunk - call that out, don't just laugh awkwardly and say that 'he's a tosser but he's a good guy really'. Shame is a powerful motivator. Even if he still thinks it's just good fun, he'll hopefully stop doing it when he's around you and that's a start.

Like drunk driving, it used to be incredibly commonplace but it's become more and more of a shameful thing to do so far fewer people do it.

B0jangles

Wibbs wrote: »

*sound of crickets*

"Come up with a solution to a huge, widespread and commonplace problem and explain it to me in a very clear and concise way"

About 5 Minutes pass

"As I thought, no answers forthcoming, it's all just complaining

psh :mad:"