#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

professore

neonsofa wrote: »

professore wrote: »

It's baffling. The vast majority of men are disgusted by rape and sexual assault. Yet somehow we are all told we are the problem when a woman gets sexually assaulted and doesn't tell us about it. Sure a few more consent classes would have given us telepathy.

Are you talking about a specific post here or the general me too hashtag?

Both I guess. It's not like there is no awareness of sexual assault against women, the media talks about it all the time.

Macmillan150

What should men do about it?

This thread should be full of people saying this is terrible behaviour and I'm so sorry these things happened to you. But it's not, it's full of men going on the attack, fathers being deluded that this stuff doesn't happen to their daughters, what aboutisms saying men get attacked ( do women should to?). Or men saying women should speak out or not speak out without proof. Anything and everything instead of " this is not what I want society to be".

B0jangles

Wibbs wrote: »

This is also becoming a pain in my arse. Please point out where I talked any poster's experiences down. Once will do, or stop lying about what I've said or haven't said. You're not the only poster who has come out with this kind of misrepresentation on this score. Though colour me shocked.

Apparently they never or very rarely tell men about all these threats and assaults. It's not just a recent thing, even your mother's experiences mirrored your own. What's the bloody point is an easy out and again it's Men's™ fault, even though apparently Women™ don't say anything and haven't for generations. Though again that's hardly accurate, certainly in the last twenty odd years. Society is constantly being reminded how women are near constant victims of sexual harassment and assault and sexism and so forth. It's a mainstay of western society and extremely so in the media.

Why don't we all tell the men in our lives?

Because. They. Don't. Listen.

Like right now, you're switching back to your well-worn, (so very well-worn) stance that Modern Society says All Women are Victims All the Time, (and it's the media's fault).

Christy42

Wibbs wrote: »

OK.
So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

I am pretty sure a large part of the campaign is because men are not psychic. Do I know how many of my friends were fondled in nightclubs or on buses? Well I did not but a load of them have started pointing it out through the me too campaign. That is the point, to point out the scale of the problem which most men don't realise (I think this is fair enough). Now there are people highlighting it.

It sickens me how many of them have mentioned that have learned to be cautious about there actions because they don't want some random error grabbing a feel.

It is not just women either (though they tend to be the more common victims) and not male attackers I have seen mentioned. The point of it is to ensure that those who are attacked know that they have sympathy and feel ok coming forward-even if many will assume they are lying (see plenty of this thread).

professore

B0jangles wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

*sound of crickets*

"Come up with a solution to a huge, widespread and commonplace problem and explain it to me in a very clear and concise way"

About 5 Minutes pass

"As I thought, no answers forthcoming, it's all just complaining

psh :mad:"

Telling people when it happens and not alienating all men by blaming them would be a start.

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

Both I guess. It's not like there is no awareness of sexual assault against women, the media talks about it all the time.

Absolutely. But in the case of the me too hashtag, and your previous post, who is it you want them to have told? Everybody on Twitter? Or their family? Or..?
And if the media always talks about it then why do you want them to tell said people? Not being smart, genuinely not understnding what you meant by your post, sorry.

B0jangles

professore wrote: »

Telling people when it happens and not alienating all men by blaming them would be a start.

So while telling you about being assaulted, women should be careful not to hurt your feelings by making any kind of remark that could be interpreted as laying blame on all men?

That's not self-centred and demanding at all.

anewme

Macmillan150 wrote: »

What should men do about it?

This thread should be full of people saying this is terrible behaviour and I'm so sorry these things happened to you. But it's not, it's full of men going on the attack, fathers being deluded that this stuff doesn't happen to their daughters, what aboutisms saying men get attacked ( do women should to?). Or men saying women should speak out or not speak out without proof. Anything and everything instead of " this is not what I want society to be".

Same as yesterday.

Instead of questioning the thinking on the paragraph below, the majority of posters attacked the people questioning it. Young teenagers know what they can get from sex??

Don't wonder why your teenager does not tell you about the perves. She thought she might get something out of it.

These are the exact words used:

Most girls (and I mean girls) know (from practical experience or education) what sex is by early teens. Modern society doesn't give a lot of space to ignore it unless you're living in the Arctic. They also know what they can get from sex. Movies, music, etc all encourage women/girls to use their physical appearance to influence men. And Honestly, most girls start manipulating adult male friends around them from a relatively young age. All it takes is a sister for any man to see the effects of that. Our society actively encourages women to see themselves as special, and that, well, sex sells.

professore

professore wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

When you have men believing that young girls (teenagers) from a very young age set out to manipulate adult men using sex, this kind of behaviour is condoned instead of being stamped out.

You are conflating two unrelated things. SOME women use sex to manipulate men, just as SOME men are perverts. Maybe you don't know it happens because your father, son or husband wouldn't be believed if they told you?
As a teen back in the 80s among other things I've seen a girl pull her skirt up to her panties and saying "do you like what you see sir?" in front of a clearly embarrassed older male teacher because she hadn't done her homework.

sonic85

B0jangles wrote: »

"Come up with a solution to a huge, widespread and commonplace problem and explain it to me in a very clear and concise way"

About 5 Minutes pass

"As I thought, no answers forthcoming, it's all just complaining

psh :mad:"

With all due respect WTF are you on about? I've read through this whole thread and you know all I've taken from it? Most women get harassed or assaulted but tell no one. They don't tell anyone because they think they won't be believed or what's the point. How will anything change? All men are responsible - men are bad mmmmmkay. That's it.

Where are the solutions? Throw a few out to me there you must have some suggestions. Honestly I'm actually interested I'm not taking the pi$$.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Please point out where I talked any poster's experiences down. Once will do, or stop lying about what I've said or haven't said.

B0jangles wrote: »

"Come up with a solution to a huge, widespread and commonplace problem and explain it to me in a very clear and concise way"

About 5 Minutes pass

"As I thought, no answers forthcoming, it's all just complaining

psh :mad:"

Your answer boils down to listen and believe women and shame men who act in a dodgy manner. I'd add tell men in the first place.

Though I would not automatically believe a woman. Just like I'd not automatically believe a man. I don't judge by gender and I'd want more than an accusation. On more than a few occasions on nights out I have witnessed one woman accusing a guy in a group of being creepy and it spread like a virus among most of the other women there(usually increasing in intensity) so the guy yep defo a creep. And the men(who they looked to) got the guy to leave. In the majority of cases the "creep" didn't do a damn thing, certainly didn't get handsie. So no I don't automatically believe, it depends entirely on the individual. Some women(and men) I'd automatically believe, while others I'd generally assume a wary approach as reality and their imaginings can be hard to untwist.

professore

B0jangles wrote: »

professore wrote: »

Telling people when it happens and not alienating all men by blaming them would be a start.

So while telling you about being assaulted, women should be careful not to hurt your feelings by making any kind of remark that could be interpreted as laying blame on all men?

That's not self-centred and demanding at all.

What???? The alienating all men thing is directed at the radfems, not at a specific loved one telling me something traumatic. Wow you really hate men if you think we are that insensitive.

B0jangles

professore wrote: »

What???? The alienating all men thing is directed at the radfems, not at a specific loved one telling me something traumatic. Wow you really hate men if you think we are that insensitive.

Telling people when it happens and not alienating all men by blaming them would be a start.

I must have missed the part of this sentence that made it clear you were talking about your loved ones at the start and radfems at the end.

professore

B0jangles wrote: »

professore wrote: »

What???? The alienating all men thing is directed at the radfems, not at a specific loved one telling me something traumatic. Wow you really hate men if you think we are that insensitive.

Telling people when it happens and not alienating all men by blaming them would be a start.

I must have missed the part of this sentence that made it clear you were talking about your loved ones at the start and radfems at the end.

I would have thought simple reasoning would have made it obvious. Clearly I was wrong.

Wibbs

B0jangles wrote: »

Why don't we all tell the men in our lives?

Because. They. Don't. Listen.

Get better men in your life.

Like right now, you're switching back to your well-worn, (so very well-worn) stance that Modern Society says All Women are Victims All the Time, (and it's the media's fault).

Actually I blame third wave feminism. Secondly point out where the statement; women are always victims and it's always men's fault doesn't apply. Even in your posts. Women are victims of men. No point telling men in your lives, because either they don't listen, or go on the attack, or don't shame other men enough. Yep, still our fault. It's well worn for a reason, because it fits like a glove.

anewme

professore wrote: »

professore wrote: »

You are conflating two unrelated things. SOME women use sex to manipulate men, just as SOME men are perverts. Maybe you don't know it happens because your father, son or husband wouldn't be believed if they told you?
As a teen back in the 80s among other things I've seen a girl pull her skirt up to her panties and saying "do you like what you see sir?" in front of a clearly embarrassed older male teacher because she hadn't done her homework.

Girls are not women.

Again if you reflect it back to the person making the post, he used the words "most girls, and I mean girls". Not some, most.

Not many people objected to this way of thinking, so either they agreed, or did not care.

I believe stopping this attitude and objecting to it when it is raised will go a long way to improving things.

professore

Why associate with men that don't listen or believe you? I don't associate with people of both genders that are like that, and there are plenty of each.

B0jangles

Wibbs wrote: »

Your answer boils down to listen and believe women and shame men who act in a dodgy manner. I'd add tell men in the first place.

Though I would not automatically believe a woman. Just like I'd not automatically believe a man. I don't judge by gender and I'd want more than an accusation. On more than a few occasions on nights out I have witnessed one woman accusing a guy in a group of being creepy and it spread like a virus among most of the other women there(usually increasing in intensity) so the guy yep defo a creep. And the men(who they looked to) got the guy to leave. In the majority of cases the "creep" didn't do a damn thing, certainly didn't get handsie. So no I don't automatically believe, it depends entirely on the individual. Some women(and men) I'd automatically believe, while others I'd generally assume a wary approach as reality and their imaginings can be hard to untwist.

Hang on, the post you quote was a direct response to a completely different post of yours (one where you got rather hilariously managed to become impatient that there wasn't a complete answer to a complex question provided within seven minutes), so I don't understand why you are taking it as a response to anything else.

kylith

kylith wrote:

The single biggest threat to women is men

Let's use this argument to highlight something else...

The biggest threat to Europe is Muslims.

The biggest threat to American civilians are blacks

Is that ok to say?

professore

anewme wrote: »

professore wrote: »

professore wrote: »

You are conflating two unrelated things. SOME women use sex to manipulate men, just as SOME men are perverts. Maybe you don't know it happens because your father, son or husband wouldn't be believed if they told you?
As a teen back in the 80s among other things I've seen a girl pull her skirt up to her panties and saying "do you like what you see sir?" in front of a clearly embarrassed older male teacher because she hadn't done her homework.

Girls are not women.

Again if you reflect it back to the person making the post, he used the words "most girls, and I mean girls". Not some, most.

Not many people objected to this way of thinking, so either they agreed, or did not care.

I believe stopping this attitude and objecting to it when it is raised will go a long way to improving things.

I do object to it, as I object to all generalisations, unless supported by mountains of hard data.

professore

neonsofa wrote: »

professore wrote: »

Both I guess. It's not like there is no awareness of sexual assault against women, the media talks about it all the time.

Absolutely. But in the case of the me too hashtag, and your previous post, who is it you want them to have told? Everybody on Twitter? Or their family? Or..?
And if the media always talks about it then why do you want them to tell said people? Not being smart, genuinely not understnding what you meant by your post, sorry.

First their family. Then the Gardai.

sonic85

B0jangles wrote: »

A really good start would be to just listen and actually believe women when they tell you about the harassment they've experienced.

In my experience, one of the commonest reactions is for the listener to jump to trying to explain away what happened as drunken messing, or a misunderstanding, or... some other convoluted explanation for why what happened didn't actually happen. Don't feel like you can make the incident simply not have happened if you explain it away well enough.

Immediately threatening to attack the perpatrator is not actually helpful; you might feel a lot better but it might make things more difficult for your sister/mother. They might actually be wary of telling you about stuff like this if they think you're going to head off and start cracking heads open.

What happens if you go overboard and he ends up seriously injured or dead? Trial + prison for you, massive guilt for having told you for your mother/sister.

The last is the most contentious - if you know one of your friends gets obnoxious and 'handsy' when he's drunk - call that out, don't just laugh awkwardly and say that 'he's a tosser but he's a good guy really'. Shame is a powerful motivator. Even if he still thinks it's just good fun, he'll hopefully stop doing it when he's around you and that's a start.

Like drunk driving, it used to be incredibly commonplace but it's become more and more of a shameful thing to do so far fewer people do it.

Thanks for the reply I appreciate it.

First of all if any female in my life approaches me and tells me something has happened then I'll believe them. Simple as that.

If someone forces themselves on somebody else then they deserve everything they get IMO.

If I see someone grabbing another person then I'll tell them to quit it - but would most people not do that anyway? The vast majority of the population knows stuff like that is wrong so how the fcuk are there so many instances of harassment and outright assault?

Wibbs

B0jangles wrote: »

Hang on, the post you quote was a direct response to a completely different post of yours (one where you got rather hilariously managed to become impatient that there wasn't a complete answer to a complex question provided within seven minutes), so I don't understand why you are taking it as a response to anything else.

I simply asked the question again: Please point out where I talked any poster's experiences down. Once will do, or stop lying about what I've said or haven't said. Because you didn't answer it. Clear enough for you? And an answer would be nice or you're admitting to being confused or lying about what I have or haven't posted.

anewme

professore wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

I do object to it, as I object to all generalisations, unless supported by mountains of hard data.

From the thread yesterday, people who objected were rounded on, and the opinion that " most girls manipulate adult men" was left largely unchallenged.

All you can do is speak out when you come across these views, people (in general) gave a habit of looking the other way unless something effects them directly.

The Listowel case was not that long ago, was it?

Edited to add 2009

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-sex-case-that-divided-a-town-and-shocked-a-watching-nation-26593097.html

B0jangles

Wibbs wrote: »

Get better men in your life.

Actually I blame third wave feminism. Secondly point out where the statement; women are always victims and it's always men's fault doesn't apply. Even in your posts. Women are victims of men. No point telling men in your lives, because either they don't listen, or go on the attack, or don't shame other men enough. Yep, still our fault. It's well worn for a reason, because it fits like a glove.

When telling it like it is results in an explosion of such extraordinary defensiveness, it's just quicker and quieter not to say anything.

Wibbs

B0jangles wrote: »

When telling it like it is results in an explosion of such extraordinary defensiveness, it's just quicker and quieter not to say anything.

So it's still the men in your life's fault and you're still the victim? As I said well worn for a reason.

B0jangles

Wibbs wrote: »

I simply asked the question again: Please point out where I talked any poster's experiences down. Once will do, or stop lying about what I've said or haven't said. Because you didn't answer it. Clear enough for you? And an answer would be nice or you're admitting to being confused or lying about what I have or haven't posted.

You're entirely correct, I did mix you up with another poster, that was very careless of me and I apologise.

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

First their family. Then the Gardai.

Done and done. I still haven't told friends, extended family, colleagues, Twitter. If I posted hashtag me too a lot of people would be surprised. So I'm not sure how your point relates to the hashtag tbh.

Wibbs

anewme wrote: »

The Listowel case was not that long ago, was it?

Ah not that "example" again. 1) it was as much about the fact the woman was an outsider and the rapist was a "local lad" and 2) the rest of Irish society went apesh1t over the conduct of those muppets and rightfully fully supported the woman who had been raped(which she herself acknowledged).

B0jangles

sonic85 wrote: »

With all due respect WTF are you on about? I've read through this whole thread and you know all I've taken from it? Most women get harassed or assaulted but tell no one. They don't tell anyone because they think they won't be believed or what's the point. How will anything change? All men are responsible - men are bad mmmmmkay. That's it.

Where are the solutions? Throw a few out to me there you must have some suggestions. Honestly I'm actually interested I'm not taking the pi$$.

I did - see post #250.

I was laughing at Wibbs getting all impatient because no-one had answered your request for a whole 7 minutes.

Wibbs

B0jangles wrote: »

You're entirely correct, I did mix you up with another poster, that was very careless of me and I apologise.

Fair play. *tips hat*

sonic85

B0jangles wrote: »

I did - see post #250.

I was laughing at Wibbs getting all impatient because no-one had answered your request for a whole 7 minutes.

Yeah I seen that! Apologies - I can be a bit on the slow side replying to posts!

anewme

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah not that "example" again. 1) it was as much about the fact the woman was an outsider and the rapist was a "local lad" and 2) the rest of Irish society went apesh1t over the conduct of those muppets and rightfully fully supported the woman who had been raped(which she herself acknowledged).

It still happened. It could happen again.

Don't think for one minute it could not.

I would also think that this Lady's experience put a lot of people off reporting incidents. Maybe they are the me toos now as well?

Why would you discount something as serious as this in a discussion of why people are putting a hashtag of me too to indicate in a lot of cases historic sexual assault and why people do not come forward.

Sonics2k

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's use this argument to highlight something else...

The biggest threat to Europe is Muslims.

The biggest threat to American civilians are blacks

Is that ok to say?

I think they mean statistically, women are far more likely be attacked or killed by a man than anything else.

professore

neonsofa wrote: »

professore wrote: »

First their family. Then the Gardai.

Done and done. I still haven't told friends, extended family, colleagues, Twitter. If I posted hashtag me too a lot of people would be surprised. So I'm not sure how your point relates to the hashtag tbh.

You should tell them. The ones that don't take you seriously are not your friends.

professore

anewme wrote: »

professore wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

I do object to it, as I object to all generalisations, unless supported by mountains of hard data.

From the thread yesterday, people who objected were rounded on, and the opinion that " most girls manipulate adult men" was left largely unchallenged.

All you can do is speak out when you come across these views, people (in general) gave a habit of looking the other way unless something effects them directly.

The Listowel case was not that long ago, was it?

Edited to add 2009

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-sex-case-that-divided-a-town-and-shocked-a-watching-nation-26593097.html

That case was an absolute disgrace.

anewme

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think they mean statistically, women are far more likely be attacked or killed by a man than anything else.

To be fair, men are also most likely to be attacked and killed by men also.

Or else bears. Damn bears. :pac:

professore

I'm off for lunch and a nice bracing walk with the lovely Mrs. Professore and our daughters. Enjoy your Sunday everyone.

PCeeeee

anewme wrote: »

It still happened. It could happen again.

Don't think for one minute it could not.

I would also think that this Lady's experience put a lot of people off reporting incidents. Maybe they are the me toos now as well?

Why would you discount something as serious as this in a discussion of why people are putting a hashtag of me too to indicate in a lot of cases historic sexual assault and why people do not come forward.

The rapist was convicted, sentenced to 7 years and placed on the sex offenders register for life. The justice system could have done little more.

As I remember the courtroom 'incident' was widely reported and widely condemned. The consensus among anyone I talked to about this was disgust/disbelief.

This Lady's experience was dreadful, because she was subjected to a dreadful attack. The ridiculous carry on in court no doubt compounded that. However the justice was served and society at large was firmly on her side.

The rapist's friends were wrong to do what they did but what are we to do about it? What did you do about it?

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

You should tell them. The ones that don't take you seriously are not your friends.

Why should I? It's not that I don't want to tell them because they won't believe me btw. It's just not something that is discussed in everyday conversation with friends and colleagues but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Hence the metoo hashtag I'm guessing. Because it is widespread and just because I don't go into the office on a Monday and say "well you'll never guess what happened to me on Saturday" doesn't mean it's not happening.

And just to also point out, an experience of mine that i posted on this thread, an experience i shared in response to a post that said "why not tell them to **** off" that i posted as an explanation as to why i wouldnt always be in a position to do that- not a post vilifying men or anything of the sort, just me telling my story and my own difficulty in confronting the behaviour- the response was "well the male version of that is...".

Maybe women are telling people, but what they are actually saying is just not really being heard.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Wibbs wrote: »

OK.
So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

And so if there's something like, I don't know, a highly visible social media campaign off the back of one of the biggest news stories of the year where women talk about their experiences in a way men can't possibly miss the response would be "oh my god, thanks for telling me, I never realised because you didn't talk about it"?

And not "shut up overreacting" "this will lead to the end of the species" "Cultural marxist this is why trump college campuses witch hunt feminazis herp dee derp" I don't believe you" "Shut up shut up shut up shut up".

Real fcukin mystery why women don't talk about this more. It must be just to mess with men's heads.

anewme

PCeeeee wrote: »

The rapist was convicted, sentenced to 7 years and placed on the sex offenders register for life. The justice system could have done little more.

As I remember the courtroom 'incident' was widely reported and widely condemned. The consensus among anyone I talked to about this was disgust/disbelief.

This Lady's experience was dreadful, because she was subjected to a dreadful attack. The ridiculous carry on in court no doubt compounded that. However the justice was served and society at large was firmly on her side.

The rapist's friends were wrong to do what they did but what are we to do about it? What did you do about it?

Are we not discussing why people do not come forward and report sexual assaults?

If you seriously do not think that there are people who have not reported sexual assaults as a result and fear of what happened to this lady, then you are missing the point of the discussion.

The man quite rightly went off to jail, but the woman still had to resume her life and live with the consequences .

Its ironic how the Social Worker who blew the whistle on the Rochdale Asian gang scandal did not have her contract renewed. She too had the support of society at large.

Harvey Weinstein is just a current example.

There's numerous examples of people getting "justice" but at what cost to their own lives.

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

It still happened. It could happen again.

Don't think for one minute it could not.

I would like to think that it wouldn't happen again. Why would anyone want to think it could happen again?

I would also think that this Lady's experience put a lot of people off reporting incidents. Maybe they are the me toos now as well?

I would think that particular case wouldn't be all that relevant to an individual deciding whether or not to make a complaint against a person. I think the circumstances of their own experience would be far more of a consideration to them. Maybe they will realise that simple platitudes and hashtags don't actually do anything tangible to address their issues.

Why would you discount something as serious as this in a discussion of why people are putting a hashtag of me too to indicate in a lot of cases historic sexual assault and why people do not come forward.

Nobody actually discounted that woman's experience. It's completely unrelated IMO to the metoo hashtag nonsense because the woman in that case rather than just posting metoo on twitter or whatever, actually did something to have her complaint taken seriously by people who were in a position to actually do something about it. Posting a hashtag of metoo on social media IMO actually has the opposite of the intended effect, that is if the intended effect was ever to have themselves taken seriously, and not just using the latest fad to try and shame people who can't take them seriously and then claim that it's because of those people that they feel they can't come forward.

Bojangles was right about one thing - shame can be a powerful motivator, but only if a person feels they have done something to feel ashamed of. If they don't feel that, because they haven't done anything to be ashamed of, then they aren't going to listen to anyone trying to shame them for something they haven't done. Isn't that why we don't condone victim-blaming? Because the person hasn't done anything wrong? And yet some people think it's ok to blame people for something when they haven't done anything wrong, simply by virtue of their sex? I'd suggest that was a good example of cognitive dissonance on their part myself -

Don't victim-blame or shame victims because they haven't done anything wrong / men are the biggest threat to women (even though the vast, vast majority of men have never done anything wrong, there is still an attempt to shame men). There's no real attempt to address the issue as far as I can see, just using yet another opportunity to shame people when they haven't done anything wrong.

Thankfully, the only people who want that sort of a society are also, in a very tiny, tiny minority, that is unfortunately magnified by their access to social media.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Men are the biggest threat to everyone actually. The vast majority of the perpetrators and victims of violent and sexual* crime are men. But if you're not one of those perpetrators then there's no need to take that statement of fact personally.

Women are the biggest threat to babies IIRC. Women commit the most emotional abuse, by far. Women, God help us, are responsible for the Kardashians being famous.

See how I can say those things and it doesn't mean that I'm saying that any individual woman on this thread is an emotionally abusive infanticide enthusiast who rushes out to buy all the new Kardashian crap?

*men being the biggest perpetrators there, not victims.

neonsofa

Greta Uneven Termite wrote: »

Women, God help us, are responsible for the Kardashians being famous.

.

Ah now I think a lot of the blame lays with men on that one in the early days .... :pac:

PCeeeee

anewme wrote: »

Are we not discussing why people do not come forward and report sexual assaults?

If you seriously do not think that there are people who have not reported sexual assaults as a result and fear of what happened to this lady, then you are missing the point of the discussion.

The man quite rightly went off to jail, but the woman still had to resume her life and live with the consequences .

Its ironic how the Social Worker who blew the whistle on the Rochdale Asian gang scandal did not have her contract renewed. She too had the support of society at large.

Harvey Weinstein is just a current example.

There's numerous examples of people getting "justice" but at what cost to their own lives.

Your point as I understand it, is that the actions of the rapist 'condolers' (for the want of a better description) in the Listowel case may make it difficult for other victims of sexual assault to report the crime. A perfectly reasonable point that I accept.

The problem I have is that there is a creeping consensus to says that I as a man am somehow complicit in the actions of rapists, sexual offenders and their fellow travelers. Let me be clear.

I am not.

I am part of a society that lambasted the actions of the minority in Listowel. I am part of a culture that has a legal system that convicted and sentenced the offender to 7 years for his crime.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

Again if you reflect it back to the person making the post, he used the words "most girls, and I mean girls". Not some, most.

Not many people objected to this way of thinking, so either they agreed, or did not care.

With respect, if you're going to rehash a previous argument about a badly worded post from another thread, where you stated you understood/accepted the mistake, could you possibly do it in that thread?

anewme

PCeeeee wrote: »

Your point as I understand it, is that the actions of the rapist 'condolers' (for the want of a better description) in the Listowel case may make it difficult for other victims of sexual assault to report the crime. A perfectly reasonable point that I accept.

The problem I have is that there is a creeping consensus to says that I as a man am somehow complicit in the actions of rapists, sexual offenders and their fellow travelers. Let me be clear.

I am not.

I am part of a society that lambasted the actions of the minority in Listowel. I am part of a culture that has a legal system that convicted and sentenced the offender to 7 years for his crime.

Yes you are correct, my point is cases like this would disuade people coming forward.

As would Harvey Weinstein(as someone says both men and women knew he was up to no good)

I am not saying anyone here condones rapists either Listiwel or any other case for one minute.

However there is a big problem and personally I would understand why a victim of sexual assault might, having weighed up the pros and cons, stay quiet.

One brave person speaks out and they all come out. But it takes that person, hence me too.

jimmy saville
The it's a knock out guy
Rolf Harris

When the President of the biggest power in the works says it's ok to "grab them by the pussy" don't wonder why people are reluctant to come forward

PCeeeee

Anewme, perhaps you are right. Maybe the metoo thing will help people. I don't know. There are elements to it that make me uncomfortable.

Chief among them is this. If a crime has been committed then it needs to be reported to the police. That is the way the system works. No report means no investigation means no conviction and punishment. The system does not work in the absence of reporting.

LLMMLL

Wibbs wrote: »

OK.
So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

So you think women should tell men about their sexual harassment but get annoyed when they do that on social media?