Man! I feel like a runner

ariana`

ReeReeG wrote: »

I think realistically the best I could hope to hit is just under 1.45. Which would be lovely, but after the National 10k the predictors were giving low 1.40s; I just think I've lost pace since then, or at least lacking the ability to maintain that pace.

Are you possibly being a bit hard on yourself? I think i'm correct in saying that the races you've done since the National 10k have been on tough courses AND/OR been mid-training plan with little/no taper? You've had a few results that didn't match your ability for sure but you've also put in a really good training block with the FRR plan (all those midweek endurance runs :eek:) so i wouldn't underestimate your fitness/endurance/speed.

ReeReeG

ariana` wrote: »

Are you possibly being a bit hard on yourself? I think i'm correct in saying that the races you've done since the National 10k have been on tough courses AND/OR been mid-training plan with little/no taper? You've had a few results that didn't match your ability for sure but you've also put in a really good training block with the FRR plan (all those midweek endurance runs :eek:) so i wouldn't underestimate your fitness/endurance/speed.

I dunno... I missed a couple weeks in this plan with the health stuff so I kind of think I need to be realistic with pushing the goal back.

I did read the bit in the book about the tune-up races again, and it did say it will be on tired non-tapered legs and to bear that in mind with the result.



I also know if I set out at say, 1.43 pace, thinking I might not be able to do this, then I'll likely not even try do it. I'd rather start from a position I feel more confident in... anyway, I have 18 days to change my mind at least 12 more times :pac:

ariana`

ReeReeG wrote: »

I also know if I set out at say, 1.43 pace, thinking I might not be able to do this, then I'll likely not even try do it. I'd rather start from a position I feel more confident in... anyway, I have 18 days to change my mind at least 12 more times :pac:

I definitely agree better to start with a goal you feel confident in. At the end of the day you can pick it up if you're feeling comfortable, as we all know it's a lot more disheartening to have a big fall off in pace during a race

Only 12 more times :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Mr. Guappa

ReeReeG wrote: »

I think realistically the best I could hope to hit is just under 1.45. Which would be lovely, but after the National 10k the predictors were giving low 1.40s; I just think I've lost pace since then, or at least lacking the ability to maintain that pace.

How accurate would calculators be at predicting a HM time from a 10k though? I checked Tinman, McMillan and Jack Daniels - they all give me a 1:39 HM time based off a 44:48 10k, which I think is far too optimistic! Luckily for you I'll be the guinea pig as my HM is the week before yours :pac:

eyrie

ReeReeG wrote: »

I think realistically the best I could hope to hit is just under 1.45. Which would be lovely, but after the National 10k the predictors were giving low 1.40s; I just think I've lost pace since then, or at least lacking the ability to maintain that pace.

I think you might surprise yourself. You've some good long runs done recently, including progressions, so that should help with maintaining/increasing pace. Totally get what you're saying about wanting to start at a pace you feel confident at and I think I would do the exact same, but I'd say you may well find yourself picking it up as you go. It's a great race anyway, definitely one to enjoy.

ReeReeG

Bit late updating last week.

Mon 12th Aug
Plan: GA 8 miles plus strides
Actual: Recovery paced miles to and from a reformer pilates class. 3m @ 10.41/m and 3m @ 10.50/m. Definitely felt like this was the best option after the race the day before, as I felt stiff to start then great by the end
Also cycled to and from work.

Tues 13th Aug
Plan: GA 7 miles
Actual: So, I deviated a fair bit this week as this was the week on the plan with the second turn-up race - which obviously I wasn't doing. I had a look at how the other weeks were structured and figured an endurance run would be fine. Ran to Marlay and back, 10m endurance from 10.36 to 8.38/m. Really pleased with this.
And even happier arriving home to the news my sister's baby girl had been born safely

Weds 14th Aug
Plan: Rest or XT
Actual: Tag rugby as usual.

Thurs 15th Aug
Plan: Recovery 3 miles
Actual: 8m easyish, but with a period in the middle where I joined some clubmates for their MP section. Average pace 10.11/m.

Fri 16th Aug
Plan: 8k-10k tuine-up race
Actual: Wedding guest fun. A lot of time in heels, and dancing. I woke up then that night with the WORST cramp in my left calf.

Sat 17th Aug
Plan: 10m endurance
Actual: Rest. Between attending the day 2 bbq and a haunting crampy pain in my calf, I decided I'd push my long run to Sunday.

Sun 18th Aug
Plan: Rest
Actual: 12m easy. Waited until after the All-Ireland for this; got lovely sunshine at first then absolutely soaked! My calf was giving out a little at the start but was fine after 20 mins or so. Average pace 10.11/m.

Total for the week: 36.3.

The plan slightly tapers now for the HM Saturday week.

eyrie

Congrats on your new niece!

ReeReeG

Mon 19th Aug
Plan: Rest or XT
Actual: Rest, long drive to Cork to see the newest member of the family

Tues 20th Aug
Plan: GA + speed, 6m plus strides
Actual: 6 easy after driving back from Cork. Average pace 10.05/m. Did 4 x 150m strides to finish. Felt grand.

Weds 21st Aug
Plan: 4m recovery
Actual: 3.5m easy before tag rugby, average pace 10.46/m.

Thurs 22nd Aug
Plan: Vo2 session, 9m with 2x1200m, 2x1000m, 800m @ 3-5k pace
Actual: Got the session done but not without mental struggles as I wasn't hitting the paces! Stopped after the warm-up to check my right foot, weird pain on it but it eased off during the session itself.. planned pace was 7.00-7.15.
1200s: 7.17, 7.13
1000s: 7.20, 7.18
800: 7.09
8 miles total.

Fri 23rd Aug
Plan: 3m recovery
Actual: Nothing, was travelling to UK for a long weekend.

Sat 24th Aug
Plan: 10m endurance
Actual: I expected a lot of activities on this weekend away, so after checking with a couple of the 2018 grads, I decided I'd not do this long run in case of not getting the taper effect before next weekend. Headed to a parkrun in the Lake District area instead, intending on a little warmup and cool down and parkrun at an easy pace. Well, it was a beautiful parkrun but absolutely the toughest I've done! Mostly on grass, which was very mucky in places as it had rained all week apparently, and some beasts of hills! I noticed a lot of runners had trail shoes on. Average pace for parkrun was 9.06 so quicker than easy and also on a tough course... not the most sensible but it was fun.. I did love it. 4.4m total is all for the morning.

Then some walking and cycling (albeit on an electric assist bike :pac:) for the rest of the day. Beautiful area.

Total miles for the week: 22.2, very low.. but taper?!

Week 12 FRR HM Plan 1 aka Race Week

Sun 25th Aug
Plan: Rest or XT
Actual: Just a climb up to see Windermere Lake. Would have liked more walking tbh but the girls weren't so keen :rolleyes:

Mon 26th Aug
Plan: 7m with 2m @ HMP
Actual: Headed out late after the flight home. Average pace 9.54/m. I attempted 8min/m as my HMP, but struggled A LOT. Hoping it was after the weekend and being in a car for a lot of the day. My left calf was giving out a lot so I need to spend a lot of time on the foam roller this week, and make sure I'm hydrating correctly.

ariana`

That's a fairly serious Vo2 session, you did, well done! And kudos on the park run, it sounds like you might enjoy cross country. You've done great training this past while, you really nailed the FRR plan despite your doubts mid-plan - i'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the plan in general when the dust has settled. Best of luck with the taper this week, i hope it is as madness free as possible

ReeReeG

ariana` wrote: »

That's a fairly serious Vo2 session, you did, well done! And kudos on the park run, it sounds like you might enjoy cross country. You've done great training this past while, you really nailed the FRR plan despite your doubts mid-plan - i'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the plan in general when the dust has settled. Best of luck with the taper this week, i hope it is as madness free as possible

Surely you've seen my hatred of cross country in this thread before :P
Although I admit to feeling a thrill I haven't felt before whilst booting it up a hill in the meadow part of the course... maybe I'll give it one last chance this Autumn / Winter

Huzzah!

"Brutal" is my new favourite word. I found the VO2 max session and the solitary HMP sessions to be brutal in that plan. The first time I followed the plan, I was 20 seconds outside my goal time; the second, I was well inside it, so I don't know if it told me much about what I was capable of on the day.

Mr. Guappa

Best of luck tomorrow V! What are you thinking target wise?

Bluesquare

Good luck tomorrow!

Huzzah!

Good luck. Try not get too nervous. You've got this.

Wubble Wubble

Full confidence in you V. Go and smash it!

ReeReeG

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow V! What are you thinking target wise?

1.43.36 joke :P



I'm intending to set out at 8 min miles and then either
a. pick it up after 10 miles if I'm able

b. pick it up for the last mile if plan a doesn't work out
c. if I'm really not feeling it for plan b, try the last km i.e. run 4 25 min 5ks and then a faster last km


All plans include a faster finish as that's what the plan has been forcing me to do with either the endurance runs or the long runs with LT finishes. I didn't execute them all perfectly, but I didn't fail entirely either so...
I'm trying to ignore the fact that I struggled with the HMP pace on Monday's run, and that I struggled in the 10 miler (but we know that wasn't down to fitness!), and tell myself I'm well able for this. Positivity only today :cool:

ReeReeG

Bluesquare wrote: »

Good luck tomorrow!

Huzzah! wrote: »

Good luck. Try not get too nervous. You've got this.

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Full confidence in you V. Go and smash it!

Thanks lads. Definitely appreciate the support on here and Strava!

gypsylee

Hope you have a great run tomorrow V. Positive thoughts sent your way. Enjoy.

Dealerz2.0

Very best of luck V

eyrie

Positivity is the way to go - you ARE well able for this. More than able. Can't wait to read all about it.
Good luck!

Comic Book Guy

All the very best for tomorrow V.

You have trained really well for it and a top time is definitely in your grasp. I look forward to hearing and reading all about it!

Mr. Guappa

ReeReeG wrote: »

1.43.36

I'd be delighted to see that... you are more than capable! The plan looks good. You've got this.

skyblue46

All the best tomorrow V. You'll give it a right good crack. I was planning to go down and run it easy but some sage advice from a Limerick direction had me pull the plug on that idea :pac: Run well and enjoy the pain when it comes.

Kellygirl

Best of luck tomorrow. Hope you have a brilliant race!

coogy

Run well tomorrow V! (and have fun!!)

ReeReeG

Definitely got my comeuppance today for ignoring sundry niggles and aches the last while. I didn't mention many on here for fear of people telling me to take the foot off the pedal. That's not without reason, but it was beyond foolish.

S*itshow of a race for me, and the only reason I finished was because I didn't want to come on here yet again saying I quit.

gypsylee

Sorry you did not get the race you wanted V. It’s so disappointing when you train hard for a run and it goes to sh*te on the day. Get those niggles sorted and you will be back stronger.

juke

Ah V. So sorry to read this. More so because you care about the random thoughts of a few strangers on the internet rather than listening to your body

Rest, eat (hope there's a Mammy's dinner in the near future), recover and get to a physio. You will come back stronger, probably more quickly than you think.

The Black Oil

Sorry to hear it didn't go well. Don't think you find a log in here without a rough day at an event, I know it's another matter when you're living and breathing it. Well done on getting over the line, though.

Kellygirl

Ah feck. Get those niggles seen to. Hope you are ok. Big hugs.

Bluesquare

Sorry to hear this .Sort out those niggles and look after yourself !

ReeReeG

Tues 27th Aug
Plan: 5m recovery
Actual: Had booked for pilates so did a nice easy jog to and from there, total 4.3 miles. 11.43/m over, 12.39/m home. Kept the HR in the 130s.

Weds 28th
Plan: 4m recovery
Actual: 3m (10.48/m) over to watch tag (had told the team I wouldn't be playing). I did end up playing last 5 mins as our girls were wrecked, but it was fairly slowed down by that stage. 1m home, 10.52/m.

Thurs 29th
Rest

Fri 30th
Plan: 3m plus strides
Actual: 2.7 including 4x100m strides. Avg pace 10.42/m.

ReeReeG

The week leading up had been mixed in terms of confidence levels, but by Friday I was feeling pretty good and positive. I’d broken down the possible plans and none of them seemed crazy or unrealistic.
I drove down to Offaly Friday night and got to bed in reasonable time. Up for 8am, had some overnight oats with banana and a slice of bread, and on the road for 8.45am with my takeaway cup of tea. I stuck on the Greatest Showman soundtrack to sing along for the drive over – I was positively GIDDY.

Traffic was fine around Tullamore so I arrived in plenty of time to collect my number and t-shirt, use the facilities a couple of times and get my warm-up and drills done. I was keeping an eye out for a few of the 2019 novices, but didn’t spot any of them unfortunately. Finally, 10.45 arrived and we were brought around to the starting point. I felt really calm waiting for the start, and positioned myself near the 1.45 pacers even though I knew I’d be keeping an eye on the pace myself.

Miles 1-3 [8.06, 7.52, 8.01]
I was happy to not hit 8 min pace for the first mile, but rather just above it to ensure not setting off too hard. It was a narrow start but I quickly got myself up to about 8.05 pace. I realized the 1.45 pacers must have dropped back a bit before the start, so I was ahead of them but hardly mattered when I was running my own race. About half a mile in, I noticed I felt like I was “working” a little, clicked to HR screen and saw 173 which seemed a little high so soon, but told myself to ignore as I was likely just settling into this pace. Pace crept up a bit in mile 2 frequently and I kept having to pull myself back, which seemed promising. However, close to the end of mile 2 my right calf started making itself known. This was odd to me at first, as it was always the left calf causing me issues the last while. Then again, I had focused on the left a lot so then wondered if I’d left myself unbalanced the other way? Told myself it might ease out, and to keep the head down. Into mile 3 and it was quite sore. Got to 5k at just under 25 mins, which was on target..

Miles 4-6 [8.17, 8.51, 9.27]
Dipped a bit into mile 4 and decided to wait for the 1.45 pacers and latch on. Only stayed with them until mile 4 was done, and eased up completely. I was in pain and frustrated hugely. Why now? I could keep with pace but its one thing managing a race pace when not feeling other aches and pains, but with the head popping between the two, my positivity was well shot. Just kept trying to jog on, maybe increase pace but then the left calf joined the party. I was battling tears, mostly of frustration, by now and telling myself to ignore the “quit” voices in my head; no way was I getting another DNF. Into mile 5 and 6 and telling myself I’ll get to halfway and see what’s going on.

Miles 7-9 [12.16, 8.55, 10.21]
I knew the next water station was at halfway, and stopped to drink the water, decided to use the portaloo and then stretched out both calves for a minute. It eased them temporarily, but when they flared up again so did my right hamstring. Presumably by now other parts of the legs were working to compensate for the stupid calves. At 8 miles I allowed myself a little walk, but forced myself to get going again fairly quickly. I was truly miserable, and my headspace was quite dark by this stage. I was thinking back to all the evenings where my left calf in particular was acting up and I thought I could run through it indefinitely. I also thought about the left shin which has been paining me on and off for months now, so much so that sometimes I have to apply cold gel to it just to allow myself to sleep in comfort. Niggles I had never properly shared with people for fear of being told to do the dreaded i.e. stop running.

Miles 10-12 [10.13, 9.53, 9.10]
I stopped again about 10ish miles in to walk up a little hill. My left hamstring and my groin / pelvis area were now giving out too. I was in tears to be honest, not just from pain but from an emotional aspect too. A marshall came over and told me run again, “my calves” I mumbled… they’ll get stiffer he said!! So I jogged a bit, gave out a lot and he jogged with me a while. It was nice of him but also I just wanted to be left alone in my misery. To be fair, the pain was there regardless of pace so he got me back going and I ran it home, apart from another drink at a water station, and decided I’d just take all the pain of keeping a faster pace and wherever the hell the pain was by now.

Mile 13 and 0.1 [8.38, 7.09 pace]
In all my thoughts of this race not going to plan, I never thought I’d struggle to get under 2 hours. This was the only thing pushing me on for the last mile – not that I managed it even. 2.01 finishing time.

Headed out of the stadium and queued up for the free physios. It was only a short rub but no surprises that he commented on the calves and hamstrings. Realized while I was queuing that I’d walked past the goodie bags, and they were gone by the time my rub down was done. Then I went for tea and got skipped over in that queue… one of those days! I was an emotional wreck heading home in the car.

I took my time uploading it to Strava cos I couldn’t bear the comments, and in fact, I’ve hidden the activity on there now cos even though I know people mean well, I just found them frustrating. I know that’s a bit mean-spirited of me but I just couldn’t… But thank you to everyone who checked in with me. Appreciated, I promise! I went over to the ice bath and sauna at the local swimming pool Sunday morning, and they felt good for the legs. I’ve a physio appointment booked for this evening, so will see how that goes. The legs feel sh*te today still, but dunno if that was cos I was relatively inactive yesterday and stiffened up.

I’ve obviously done a lot of thinking since Saturday morning, and if you asked me when I last had a comfortable run i.e. nothing acting up with my legs, I couldn’t tell you when that was. Which I’m not sure is a good thing. I’d just run anyway even if something felt off and hope it disappeared. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t.

If anyone has any thoughts on maybe some training errors that might have contributed, I’d welcome them. Please.

chickey2

I'm gutted for you. I can totally feel the frustration in your report. You kept going though and finished which you have to give yourself credit for.
I've no advice I'm afraid other than get the niggles checked out. Good luck.

Mr. Guappa

My initial thought is that you put too much pressure on yourself and that is leading to bad decisions with training, such as in this case with the leg or before when you had stitches.

Good luck at the physio. Off for my long run now so I will spend the next 3 hours pondering the running career of ReeReeG

hillsiderunner

I think just put the feet up, watch some TV, and wait to see what the physio suggests.

Had not expected you were running with hidden niggles, you had been doing great this year. Hope there will be some advice on the shins as well as the calves (and hamstring).

Huzzah!

Nothing of use to add other than to ask that you let us know how you get on with the physio.

eyrie

I hadn't spotted any training "errors" anyway, I thought you'd been doing great training. I hope the physio has some answers and can help.

This one won't keep you down for long, I'd be sure of that.

Dubh Geannain

That was tough to read. The first mention I took note of with your left calf was after the wedding. Was that the start of it?

ReeReeG

Got to the physio (after a fast walk that had the calves stiffening again), and he went through my running history and when I started noticing issues etc. Watched how I was standing, then how I was running and my range of motion from my hips, including how I squat and lunge. Apparently I'm quad-dominant, which means the quads and calves are doing all of the work and nothing from the hips or glutes. Hence, the state of the calves (and in fairness, the quads aren't in great shape either). This has also led to shin splints on my left leg, and possibly the startings of it on the right.

The physio explained I need to activate the right muscles so I run better and take all the pressure off the calves. Gym work / S&C is where I will get this. It's funny though, I did remark to him as we were going through the history that I noticed my feet were landing differently this last while - there was a much louder slapping sound. It probably correlates to when the calves started acting up, and more importantly a few weeks after we moved office and I was no longer doing my couple of yoga/pilates classes a week.

Anyway, he was asking me about next races etc and laughed at me when I said a HM on the 14th... I wasn't hopeful anyway. He advised to focus only on simple exercises he's given me for the next two weeks and no running. I can cycle and walk, so I'll do a bit of those for my work commute etc.

I'm happy it's all fixable, even if it won't be a quick fix. Hopefully I haven't done too much damage to the shin, but I'm going to be as good a patient now as possible. I can still volunteer at parkruns sure

After all that analysis etc, the physio got to work on the calves... oh dear lord. Bricks, actual bricks. I've to go back Thursday for another rub, dreading the pain already!!

ReeReeG

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

That was tough to read. The first mention I took note of with your left calf was after the wedding. Was that the start of it?

It was tough to write! No, it had started before that but I think I should have paid a visit to the physio at that stage (well, should have gone before, but should REALLY have listened to my body that weekend!)

Wubble Wubble

ReeReeG wrote: »

Got to the physio (after a fast walk that had the calves stiffening again), and he went through my running history and when I started noticing issues etc. Watched how I was standing, then how I was running and my range of motion from my hips, including how I squat and lunge. Apparently I'm quad-dominant, which means the quads and calves are doing all of the work and nothing from the hips or glutes. Hence, the state of the calves (and in fairness, the quads aren't in great shape either). This has also led to shin splints on my left leg, and possibly the startings of it on the right.

The physio explained I need to activate the right muscles so I run better and take all the pressure off the calves. Gym work / S&C is where I will get this. It's funny though, I did remark to him as we were going through the history that I noticed my feet were landing differently this last while - there was a much louder slapping sound. It probably correlates to when the calves started acting up, and more importantly a few weeks after we moved office and I was no longer doing my couple of yoga/pilates classes a week.

Anyway, he was asking me about next races etc and laughed at me when I said a HM on the 14th... I wasn't hopeful anyway. He advised to focus only on simple exercises he's given me for the next two weeks and no running. I can cycle and walk, so I'll do a bit of those for my work commute etc.

I'm happy it's all fixable, even if it won't be a quick fix. Hopefully I haven't done too much damage to the shin, but I'm going to be as good a patient now as possible. I can still volunteer at parkruns sure

After all that analysis etc, the physio got to work on the calves... oh dear lord. Bricks, actual bricks. I've to go back Thursday for another rub, dreading the pain already!!

Good news, at least it shouldn't take too long, touch wood. Hate any of that myself. Remember physio sessions pre: DCM 2016. ITB issues then. Ouch.
Best of luck

passinginterest

Best of luck with the physio. Sounds very fixable. Had my own calf/shin splint issues in the past. Physio and exercises worked great. If the physio brings out a golf ball to work on the calves be prepared for the tears!!

Kellygirl

Well glad to read about the physio and that it’s fixable. I hope you feel better now.

ariana`

It sounds like you got a very thorough physio there which is half the battle. Weak glutes and poor activation of the glute muscles seems to be a common enough theme among us recreational runners, my physio likes to blame this generation's mainly sedentary lifestyle, sitting is the new smoking. Best of luck with the rehab and prehab, it can only make you a better/stronger runner.

The Black Oil

The guy I've been to a few times has this 'yeah, but what else are ye doing?' sense about him. It's not that he's being a smart arse. His basic thesis is correct - movement must be more than tarmac related, otherwise the body will just yelp at some point. He's more of a triathlete and has done 1.18-1.21 in half marathons. I think as runners we've a tendency to get sucked into paces, plans, targets and the big one - mileage, mileage, mileage. I've certainly done little else most of the time and probably gotten away with it until recently. Sounds like your appointment was thorough. eyrie put me on to yoga which is definitely become a part of my toolkit in the past week or two.

ReeReeG

Update for myself in case I need to look back on this sometime..

Did a reformer pilates class Tuesday night, trying to work harder on the exercises using the glutes and core. Continued with the physio-given exercises twice a day until a return visit Thursday morning. Apparently my side plank had improved already so yay for me. Got another rub on the calves, still like bricks and not great at all. The shin was already less tender though so that's a good thing. Got more exercises to do, some now involving weights.

Volunteered at parkrun Saturday morning, before trying a spin class. Bad idea as it turns out - I think because my glutes are still quite weak, I was doing way more from my quads which is not what was needed, and I am still in agony today!! Walking down stairs is horrible Although I also think I didn't have the bike set up correctly for my height as the whole thing felt quite awkward.
Did another reformer pilates yesterday, and I definitely think these are more beneficial right now.

I'll be back at the physio on Thursday again so we'll see where I'm at.
I am finding it hard without running though, head went to a dark enough place last week.

OOnegative

From my experiences staying as active as possible will help prevent the mind wandering to that dark place, it’s amazing when running is taken away how much we miss it.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote: »

From my experiences staying as active as possible will help prevent the mind wandering to that dark place, it’s amazing when running is taken away how much we miss it.

Yeah I am trying to stay active alright, might finally join the gym I've been threatening to join since we moved office. I hadn't realised quite how much I depend on running.

OOnegative

ReeReeG wrote: »

Yeah I am trying to stay active alright, might finally join the gym I've been threatening to join since we moved office. I hadn't realised quite how much I depend on running.

Running makes you feel good about yourself, maybe not when your slogging it out on a long run or session, but the afterwards makes it all worth while. Hard when that’s taken away for a period. Joining a gym sounds like a smart idea.