Buy an apartment or keep saving ?

CandyButcher

I am wondering if it is a good idea in my situation to go get a mortgage for an apartment.

I am 28, living at home with no kids. Living at home is fine however I would like some more space at this stage. I have 60k in savings and have recently start considering the idea of throwing the whole lot at a down payment on an apartment in north Dublin city

The average apartment is going for around 200k, going by permanent tsb mortgage calculator I could avail of a loan of 150,000 + 50k of what I have saved would get me an average apartment paying a monthly mortgage of 1050 per month for 15 years.

Immediately I could rent out a room to a tenant and knock say 400 per month off the mortgage. That is me paying an extra 350 per month from what I pay at home but this way I am paying off my own property and have my own investment.

My concerns are: I am still fairly young and I would like the option to just leave Ireland to travel for a year or two. Is the solution to this just to have a letting agent rent out my apartment and take care of everything for me and that way the mortgage would be still be paying off. Also if I lost my job once I had a tenant I could still scrape by for that time on job seekers?

I would be living in the apartment for the next 4 years or so but ultimately when I have kids etc I will want to move into a house.. and use the apartment as an investment. However I do read mixed opinions on buying properties as future investments mostly bad..

Anyway, just throwing this out there as I don't really have anybody to discuss these things with. Should I just stay at home and continue to save roughly 20k a year and wait until I want to buy a house with a partner ?

Thanks for reading.

LiamoSail

CandyButcher wrote: »

I am wondering if it is a good idea in my situation to go get a mortgage for an apartment.

I am 28, living at home with no kids. Living at home is fine however I would like some more space at this stage. I have 60k in savings and have recently start considering the idea of throwing the whole lot at a down payment on an apartment.

The average apartment is going for around 200k, going by permanent tsb mortgage calculator I could avail of a loan of 150,000 + 50k of what I have saved would get me an average apartment paying a monthly mortgage of 1050 per month for 15 years.

Immediately I could rent out a room to a tenant and knock say 400 per month off the mortgage. That is me paying an extra 350 per month from what I pay at home but this way I am paying off my own property and have my own investment.

My concerns are: I am still fairly young and I would like the option to just leave Ireland to travel for a year or two. Is the solution to this just to have a letting agent rent out my apartment and take care of everything for me and that way the mortgage would be still be paying off. Also if I lost my job once I had a tenant I could still scrape by for that time on job seekers?

I would be living in the apartment for the next 4 years or so but ultimately when I have kids etc I will want to move into a house.. and use the apartment as an investment. However I do read mixed opinions on buying properties as future investments mostly bad..

Anyway, just throwing this out there as I don't really have anybody to discuss these things with. Should I just stay at home and continue to save roughly 20k a year and wait until I want to buy a house with a partner ?

Thanks for reading.

It depends where you live. You won't get a decent 1 bed near Dublin City for under 200k, let alone a 2 bed.

If you did want to emigrate or travel in the future though you could always rent it out which, providing it's an area of decent rental demand, would at least cover the majority of mortgage payments.

Obvious negatives are the loss of first time buyer benefit, specifically the reduced deposit rule if you do intend on buying a house in the future.

There's also the fact to consider that you'll have a stake in the property market and depending on what happens with the market, that could make it easier or harder to buy a house a few years down the line.

catrionanic

So much of this depends on your savings capacity. You are saving a very very impressive amount at the moment, so if I was you, I would likely stay where I am and keep saving, until I could buy something more future-proof.

Apartments are great in the short-term, but if the sh1t hits the fan again and you get stuck there, you’ll regret it. Plus there’s the risk of some awful tenants coming along, if you do go off travelling, and costing you thousands in damage or overholding or rent arrears.

If I was you, I’d keep saving for another few years until I could buy a 3-bed house or apartment.

andekwarhola

If you're able to save 20k a year at your age and don't actively dislike living with your parents, just keep saving and get something bigger or in a better area when the market drops again.

Seems silly to get into the market for a starter property when it's inflated, you are saving large amounts and not under pressure in current accommodation.

April 73

I agree with saving hard for the next couple of years with a plan to aim for buying a house in an area you'd be happy to stay in for the medium term at least. You could have €100k saved in s couple of years which is a huge deposit for a 30 year old to have.

However looking at your numbers in the first post I think you are giving your parents €800 a month? At 28 I would have cracked up living with my parents & we get on reasonably well. I moved out at 17 to go to college & never moved back home. If you have €800 a month to play with I really would prefer to house/flat share with someone my own age. Do you have a friend you could suggest sharing with?
While it's all well & good people suggesting you should stay home for years more & save - I think at 28 or 30/31 by the time you do some more saving - that is well time to be living an adult independent life.

Don't buy the apartment as a stopgap though - it's not a good long term option.

CandyButcher

April 73 wrote: »

I agree with saving hard for the next couple of years with a plan to aim for buying a house in an area you'd be happy to stay in for the medium term at least. You could have €100k saved in s couple of years which is a huge deposit for a 30 year old to have.

However looking at your numbers in the first post I think you are giving your parents €800 a month? At 28 I would have cracked up living with my parents & we get on reasonably well. I moved out at 17 to go to college & never moved back home. If you have €800 a month to play with I really would prefer to house/flat share.

No sorry Im currently handing up €400 per month for a small side extension which is great just not ideal for cooking or as spacious as an apartment whereas if I got a mortgage on an apartment I could immediately move a family member in who will pay me €400 per month leaving me to pay €600 which isen to bad an known im paying off a future asset. I could stay here saving but I assumed now is the time to buy as I read property prices are increasing daily ??

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

LirW

The problem is that the value of an apartment can be very volatile.
You want to move on in a few years so you'll need to have a close look at the worst case scenario. First for your chosen location to get something decent your budget is unrealistic. Asking price isn't Selling price and 2beds are very popular. Don't hand over this chunk of money if you aren't a million percent certain about it, it's going to be the biggest purchase of your life.
Anyway my point is: You're planning to sell the apartment on in a few years down the line. If anything happens on the market and you find yourself in negative equity the bank wouldn't let you sell and you end up stuck with a property that you either occupy yourself or you have to rent it out.

Don't feel pressured to buy because the newspaper says. Is the time right for YOU now? If you want to be a homeowner, then start looking but it seems you don't even know yet, if you want to see the world before or not. If that's the case don't buy and save the money. If you can see yourself rooting down for the next decade or so, then looking to buy isn't the worst idea.
Also if you want bang for your buck, maybe start looking a bit further out of the city centre. Once you start looking and have been to viewings you'll get a hang of the process and prices.

On a different note: personally I don't get the concept of taking a mortgage out and then renting part of your own property out again. I mean each to their own but I'd probably be fed up very soon.

andekwarhola

CandyButcher wrote: »

but I assumed now is the time to buy as I read property prices are increasing daily

It's cyclical.

If you can afford to hold off, save and see where this ends up, I definitely would.

I know people who bought small apartments when the market was heating and they really wish they hadn't.

commited

I'd advise getting a bit more of a grip on the costs involved as the sums you're talking about don't add up, a 2 bed in the city will cost more than €200k, but on the flip side you will receive quite a bit more than €400/month for renting a room.

Overall, you're probably best to stay where you are and keep saving if you're happy.

CandyButcher

commited wrote: »

I'd advise getting a bit more of a grip on the costs involved as the sums you're talking about don't add up, a 2 bed in the city will cost more than €200k, but on the flip side you will receive quite a bit more than €400/month for renting a room.

Overall, you're probably best to stay where you are and keep saving if you're happy.

There is a 3 bed in north dublin for €200k which is where I would be looking it would be a good rental area too. Im just tryna figure out is now a good time to go for it, I get the feeling property’s are just rising and rising and will be for the next number of years I cant see them dropping anytime soon as There is a shortage. I could keep saving I do kind of have my own privacy not totally but I would like a decent sized room and kitchen etc.. it will just mean im locked into financial pressure to hold down my job etc for the next 15 years

Delphinium

If living at home is bearable I would continue as you are not actually sharing. Maybe look into improving cooking facilities.

I'm sure your parents are thankful for the extra income, and it gives you breathing space to save and travel before tying yourself down.

Renting an apartment through an agent is in no way profitable and if it is furnished to your taste, you will be disappointed with the condition when you return.

Are you making a proper monthly payment? Keep records and this will facilitate you in getting a mortgage. Not sure how this would affect your parents' tax bill though.

Wabbit Ears

Don't do it.

You'll have an apartment and you'll rent a room and then you'll have a girlfriend who'll then always be over and your tenant will get annoyed and your girlfriend will hate having them there and oh, god, there goes all your well laid plans. Then she gets knocked up and you want to sell but you cant and it dawns on you that, yes, you DID in fact buy an apartment right in the middle of a mini boom and now that supply has increased your apartment is worth nothing and instead of having 60k you are in negative equity of multiples of that. You'll be all upset and blame the gubberment and everyone around you who'd had literally been in exactly the same negative equity situation a decade before will just shake their heads as you whine that no one warned you this would happen because they did warn you, you just chose not to listen and jumped on the property ladder for the same BS reasons everybody who was burned in the last recession did.

shesty

Buy a long term home, not an investment.Start looking at it that way, and it will answer your question pretty quick.

andekwarhola

You can do the rent a room scheme if you have a lodger like you suggest but if you were to rent out the place when you travel, you'll be taxed on rental income. As you can save so much currently, I presume you're in the higher tax bracket so that's also something to consider.

commited

I had a long reply typed out to this but lost it so I'll summarise.

If you want to buy, a 3 bed house/apartment will be a better proposition rather than a 2 bed (area dependent). It will allow you to rent 2 rooms out to tenants and get ~€1k/month tax free. This is enough to service a €150k mortgage over 15 years. If/when circumstances change it further gives you options. You have the ability to save €20k/year and are paying €5k/year in rent so there is further evidence of affordability here.

A few bits of advice:
- Buy a solid place in a good location that you know well and are happy to live in for 10+ years
- If taking a mortgage, take it over a longer term than 15 years but overpay in the interim. This provides flexibility (by means of lower monthly commitments) in the event of a negative change in circumstances

I struggle to see how you will buy a nice 3 bed in Dublin, in a rentable location for €200k but good on you if you do!

Edit: Looking at the PTSB calculator, I assume you're on about €50k/year. If you look to take a mortgage over 25 years rather than 15 years, you should be able to get €175k without needing an exemption from Central Bank. With your current savings and savings between now and closing a sale, you'd have affordability of approximately 230k while leaving some money for solicitors etc.

3putt

Where is this 3 bedroom apt for 200k in dublin city you refer to? Sounds a bit to good to be true

CandyButcher

3putt wrote: »

Where is this 3 bedroom apt for 200k in dublin city you refer to? Sounds a bit to good to be true

Daft/finglas/Lanesborough/3 bed 2 bathroom best ive seen so far.. what do you think? Sorry New users are unable to post links.

Im not to familar with property pricing cycles so are people meaning to tell me there will be or has been stages where average apartments go alot cheaper? One I mentioned for example? I was unaware were were ina mini boom therefore holding off would seem the thing to do, the downfall to this is if I sit back and watch the property prices climb and climb for the next 10 years or so.

LirW

As far as I know the areas where you find these apartments have troublesome neighbors. I've been looking a good bit in Finglas and I couldn't warm up with any of the developments there because they have a high fluctuation of tenants and parts of the area are used for social housing purposes (I live in a council terrace of 10 houses and 5 still belong to the council and it's grand really), but that's on you to decide if you like that or not. If you live in a troubled area it's a lot more difficult to move on if you don't like it anymore.
I liked Hampton Woods by far the best out of all of the developments that have apartment stock but they're all pretty shoddy building-wise. Personally I'd also never want to live under a Duplex apartment.

Edit: Why don't you just start looking and go to open viewings, you'll quickly realize what's for you and what is not. Doesn't cost you a thing and you can learn a lot about the whole property thing as well as your personal preferences.

commited

LirW wrote: »

Edit: Why don't you just start looking and go to open viewings, you'll quickly realize what's for you and what is not. Doesn't cost you a thing and you can learn a lot about the whole property thing as well as your personal preferences.

Great advice

gmisk

I would personally hold off based on what your saying. Bare in mind you will only be a first time buyer once so if you do buy now and try to buy again you will need 20 percent deposit.

James 007

CandyButcher wrote: »

Daft/finglas/Lanesborough/3 bed 2 bathroom best ive seen so far.. what do you think? Sorry New users are unable to post links.

Im not to familar with property pricing cycles so are people meaning to tell me there will be or has been stages where average apartments go alot cheaper? One I mentioned for example? I was unaware were were ina mini boom therefore holding off would seem the thing to do, the downfall to this is if I sit back and watch the property prices climb and climb for the next 10 years or so.

I have lived on Griffith Drive and Fairways Green in Finglas on 2 separate occasions, never had any issues. There are several houses on griffith drive, griffith road, griffith parade, perhaps check them out. All a stones walk to griffith avenue where you would buy a house for 3 times the price. Forget the apartments. Most likely next recession wont hit for another 5-8 years. Remember all those that did buy over priced apartments and some are only off loading them now with a hugh sigh of relief.

Hollister11

If I was in your position I would probably buy. But I wouldn't buy in the city. I'd be in the suburbs close to the DART station for a 20 minute commute and get much more value for your money.

LiamoSail

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Don't do it.

You'll have an apartment and you'll rent a room and then you'll have a girlfriend who'll then always be over and your tenant will get annoyed and your girlfriend will hate having them there and oh, god, there goes all your well laid plans. Then she gets knocked up and you want to sell but you cant and it dawns on you that, yes, you DID in fact buy an apartment right in the middle of a mini boom and now that supply has increased your apartment is worth nothing and instead of having 60k you are in negative equity of multiples of that. You'll be all upset and blame the gubberment and everyone around you who'd had literally been in exactly the same negative equity situation a decade before will just shake their heads as you whine that no one warned you this would happen because they did warn you, you just chose not to listen and jumped on the property ladder for the same BS reasons everybody who was burned in the last recession did.

So if he meets a girl, and if they move in together and if his existing tenant doesn't like his girlfriend and if she gets pregnant and if we are in fact in the middle of a mini boom and if prices then crash, then it will have been a bad move?

How do you ever make a decision to do anything with a train of thought like that?

fishy_fishy

CandyButcher wrote: »

Daft/finglas/Lanesborough/3 bed 2 bathroom best ive seen so far.. what do you think? Sorry New users are unable to post links.

Im not to familar with property pricing cycles so are people meaning to tell me there will be or has been stages where average apartments go alot cheaper? One I mentioned for example? I was unaware were were ina mini boom therefore holding off would seem the thing to do, the downfall to this is if I sit back and watch the property prices climb and climb for the next 10 years or so.

If prices keep going up and up and up... who exactly will be able to afford them? Think about it. You're earning more than the average income in Ireland. If someone with higher than average income can't afford it in, say, 2 years time with 100k in savings, who will be able to afford it?

You've already got a decent deposit. Hang on for something you want that will suit you for 10 years. 10 years flies by - lots of people who bought apartments 10 years ago are now sitting in 1 and 2 beds married with kid(s) and no space to turn around but they can't move because they're still in negative equity.

I think the advice to go to open viewings is great. See if you can picture yourself there in a decade if you weren't able to sell for whatever reason. If you can't, then you need to really think about whether it's right for you.

moonlighting

As others have stated forget about this investment/landlord nonsense. Buy a property that you can live in for the rest of your life.
This country is probably got some ruff times ahead. I could only see myself in a property that i liked and don't have to worry about for the rest of my days.
Play it safe, keep saving and buy a forever home.

__..__

Do the opposite to what the crowd thinks you should do at any particular time. That's always been my philosophy when investing.

Zenify

__..__ wrote: »

Do the opposite to what the crowd thinks you should do at any particular time. That's always been my philosophy when investing.

great advice

__..__

Zenify wrote: »

great advice

Works for me. Oh and Warren buffet

Graham

moonlighting wrote: »

As others have stated forget about this investment/landlord nonsense. Buy a property that you can live in for the rest of your life.
This country is probably got some ruff times ahead. I could only see myself in a property that i liked and don't have to worry about for the rest of my days.
Play it safe, keep saving and buy a forever home.

Play it safe by buying accommodation for life that's likely to be twice the price/size you need for around 50% of the time you occupy it??

It's hard to see that as the most appropriate route for everyone.

gmisk

CandyButcher wrote: »

Daft/finglas/Lanesborough/3 bed 2 bathroom best ive seen so far.. what do you think? Sorry New users are unable to post links.

Im not to familar with property pricing cycles so are people meaning to tell me there will be or has been stages where average apartments go alot cheaper? One I mentioned for example? I was unaware were were ina mini boom therefore holding off would seem the thing to do, the downfall to this is if I sit back and watch the property prices climb and climb for the next 10 years or so.

Also bare in mind just because something is on at a certain price it doesnt mean it will go for that....a lot of places going way over asking currently.

Mike3549

Graham wrote: »

Play it safe by buying accommodation for life that's likely to be twice the price/size you need for around 50% of the time you occupy it??

It's hard to see that as the most appropriate route for everyone.

Ah come on 50%? OPs thinking about buying a 3-bed apt, i cant see anybody recommending a 6bed dormer on this thread.