Do you think you have been the victim of sexual assault?

The Bishop Basher

Wibbs wrote: »

I think my attitude to the notion of "rape culture" and "Every woman has been raped!" is well established, but at the same time the risks of this are demonstrably lower for men, just as the risks of physical assault are demonstrably lower for women. To suggest otherwise is just as farcical as that kinda thing from "feminists".

I used to work the night shift in a filling station beside a well known Dublin nightclub so as you can imagine, kicking out time meant we got pretty busy and the forecourt would often be packed..

I'll never forget the violence and aggression being doled out night after night by women beating the living sh1te out of each other outside the counter window. I was young and it was an eye opener at the time. They were incredibly vicious.

I don't disagree with the vast majority of what you say but i think we all underestimate the female propensity for violence. I don't believe it's that different from a man's tbh.

Wibbs

Swanner wrote: »

I don't disagree with the vast majority of what you say but i think we all underestimate the female propensity for violence. I don't believe it's that different from a man's tbh.

It would be my take that a percentage of people are more prone to bully boy tactics, including violence and "social violence" like exclusion for example. Can women be bloody violent? They certainly can. Maybe it's about equal, though I'd personally doubt it and would feel(and reckon the science backs this up) that men are the more violent gender in general, though would say women might be more prone to the above social violence.

In actual violence the other thing is that in general men being violent causes more physical damage. We're more physically designed to dish it out and take it too. Like I said before I wouldn't be a particularly strong man, but if I was to get into a fight with an average woman of my height and weight the vast majority of people would lay odds that I'm going to come out of it better. Comparisons to women like those who are pro MMA athletes notwithstanding. They'd obviously beat my arse into next week, though even there I'd suffer less damage than the average woman of my height and weight would in the same ring.

goz83

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah C'mon. Yes it happens and it is Wrong lest anyone doubts my position on the matter, however it is a plain fact that women of all ages are far more likely to be sexually intimidated and groped than men are.

If someone came on a thread here discussing physical violence on men and suggested that women were equally likely to suffer from it, I'd call shenanigans on that too.

And so why are we only hearing about women being victims? The floor is wide open for anyone with a grudge to make an allegation and in this current climate, everyone is jumping on the band wagon. The male bashing and the blowing of out of proportion some of these allegations is astonishing.

Was chatting to my OH earlier and she told me that one of her male colleagues was leaning over to grab something from the counter in the canteen when a female colleague reached over and pinched his arse.

Harmless fun?
Most likely. There was no mention of him taking offense to being pinched by an older colleague.

Sexual Harrassment?
It would be seen that way for sure if he had pinched her arse, no?

The "perceived" level of threat, or something sinister possibly happening is irrelevant. All that matters is what actually happens. If this gets any worse, men won't be able to look in the general direction of a woman for fear of being thrown into jail.

Or maybe we shouldn't be letting women away with it anymore? I don't appreciate when women are checking out my junk anymore than some women despise their chest being ogled. I don't think it's right that women get away with what men are being ridiculed and smeared for.

Wibbs

goz83 wrote: »

And so why are we only hearing about women being victims?

We're not G, for example Kevin Spacey and a few others. Granted it is notable that these are gay guys and there' been nothing so far about women being sexually unacceptable. Though we have heard a few women say that other women were decidedly dodgy about getting starlets to strip in front of them.

Was chatting to my OH earlier and she told me that one of her male colleagues was leaning over to grab something from the counter in the canteen when a female colleague reached over and pinched his arse.

Harmless fun?
Most likely. There was no mention of him taking offense to being pinched by an older colleague.

Sexual Harrassment?
It would be seen that way for sure if he had pinched her arse, no?

Oh sure there does exist a double standard alright. Though personally I'd not want to go down the victimhood road that many on the "feminist" side do either.

The "perceived" level of threat, or something sinister possibly happening is irrelevant. All that matters is what actually happens. If this gets any worse, men won't be able to look in the general direction of a woman for fear of being thrown into jail.

I honestly dunno about that G. Maybe in heavily right on HR riddled corporations. Your Googles as an example, but for the rest of us outside America and American culture in the real world I think we're a long way off anything like that.

In some cultures there has been a right backlash against some of the women that have come forward over Weinstein. Italy for example, where Asia Argento was berated online and in the press and was actually(IMHO) victim blamed. McGowan isn't faring much better as the weeks pass and she's getting it from some quarters in the US(the suggestion that she was in the middle of negotiating more money from the Weinstein company as a settlement, but the newspaper story broke and only then did she go full Twitter much of the critique). Judd has been pilloried too. Not so much about her experiences with Horrible Harvey, but for crazy statements like saying Trump being elected was a worse insult and feeling than when she was a victim of molestation as a child.

So yeah, if we step away from the interwebs and media, the rest of the western world and everyday men and women in it are generally rocking along fine.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

It would be my take that a percentage of people are more prone to bully boy tactics, including violence and "social violence" like exclusion for example. Can women be bloody violent? They certainly can. Maybe it's about equal, though I'd personally doubt it and would feel(and reckon the science backs this up) that men are the more violent gender in general, though would say women might be more prone to the above social violence...

Agreed. I wouldn't believe that the percentages are equal. Now would I suggest that it's even close to being equal. Our culture/society has for generations promoted the viewpoint that men are more aggressive and likely to resort to physical violence in a dispute than a woman.

However, if the aim is to go for a society of gender equality where both men and women are protected from that kind of behavior, it doesn't make any sense to focus entirely on how 'men' are behaving. It makes more sense to highlight the negative behavior of both parties, research ways of reducing said behavior, and reduce it. Without focusing on a particular gender excluding the other(s)

There is far too much masculine vs feminine in all of these movements. Gender equality is no longer about equality. Instead, it's just another name for feminism, since it seeks to solely protect or raise the rights of women. All this does is alienate men, paint men as being the negative side of humanity, and encourages more of that behavior to occur. Oh, I'm not excusing the violent behavior of men, but I am seeing that all this focus will cause frustration, bitterness, and anger amongst men who are far more physical than others.

TBH It shouldn't be a case of men being more likely to turn to violence than women. Doing that just encourages the competition of us vs them.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH It shouldn't be a case of men being more likely to turn to violence than women. Doing that just encourages the competition of us vs them.

+1 My biggest issue is the increasing polarity and dogged attachment to one's own "side" in this debate(and others). Though part of that is blindly ignoring facts when it suits one's own side. Feminists do this all the time, however way too often those debating them do exactly the same. EG yes it shouldn't be the case of men being more likely to be physically violent than women, but it is a fact that men as a demographic are. As a society we have to accept facts like these and look on why it is the case and how to tackle it.

First we all have to be honest with ourselves and aspects of our culture(s)/genders that require more consideration and work to improving things. No point scoring or hysterics should be required.

zetalambda

Pero_Bueno wrote: »

All the time in nightclubs back in college - I would have my ass pinched.
Again I actually found it funny / harmless cos that's all it was - I remember being pissed off however that I couldn't just return the favour ...

I was also glutally raped numerous times when i was in my late teens. At the time I took it as a compliment but now i feel dirty and used. #metoo