The Axanar Fiasco and its Cost

hal9550

I Dont know whether anyone is actually interested in discussing this. But as this is a Star Trek Related issue, i thought i would see if anyone has an opinion. My interest (and anger) has come to a head since learning that it was the Axanar Case which has forced other Fan Productions including Continues, and Phase II to come to a close.

For Anyone who doesnt know, it relates to the 'Prelude to Axanar' docu-trailer which was released a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1_8IV8uhA

Let me state right now, that this trailer was VERY promising and had me very excited! A Kickstarter campaign raised a lot of money for the production, nearly 1.4Million dollars apparently, and it was also made apparent that others had donated behind the scenes too! There was a lot to look forward too

As one noted blogger Stated, 'That was then, This is Now'

Synopsis: The producer involved used the money to set up a production company. He also got several companies to produce 'Merchandise including 'Starship models', Costumes, and other memorabilia. And began selling this gear to raise more funds, while also paying himself a SALARY of $38k (and staff). IN effect, he

• Crowdfunded for a Fan Movie
• Relabled that Fan Movie an 'Independent Feature Film'
• SET UP A PRODUCTION COMPANY AND OBTAINED A PREMISIS
• Began a Merchandising Campaign and started selling official Axanar gear

Naturally he was sued. Im sure many people heard of it and had the same reaction i had. CBS were jealous of how good it was... its disgraceful... i wanted to see that movie.

MY OPINION: Guys its all rubbish and i can totally see CBS's beef with this guy. And rather than back down, and perhaps ACTUALLY make the fan film he had promised, it is clear he encouraged CBS to release guidelines for Star Trek Fan Productions which have now utterly CRIPPLED Star Trek Continues, and PHASE II. These productions had FAR less crowd funding and in both cases those involved pumped a large amount of personal finance into the productions. The 'AXANAR' guy (google his name, im genuinely not even willing to speak it out loud), actually has the temerity to attempt a second Crowd Funding project under the guise of setting up an 'Independent Film Production' studio. The Video for this project is quite literally insane. In the space of minutes the guy says it would be 'free for use' to anyone who wanted to.. before then highlighting that it would be for 'little or nothing'... and finally states that the proceeds will go to the production of AXANAR. The reason for the second crowd funding campaign is that the legal settlement prevented him from going back to fans for more money specifically for Axanar.

In order to try and liquidate all of his 'stock' of merchandise, the guy has also been turning up at conventions and claiming that there are independent AXANAR FAN CLUBS selling merchandise for charity purposes.

Im including links below that i think are important to back up what i am saying. but i genuinely think this warrants discussion. Im literally revolted by the behavior of this 'production company', and the fact that it ruined PHASE II and Continues adds insult to injury.

[Discusses the selling of merchandise at conventions]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9HUsIIKf8Y&t=1565s

[Second crowdfunding effort and Editorial by a Blogger]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXziBjntCeo&t=199s

[Interview with Continues Producer on the subject from aprox 11:38]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhsFSevAt9s&t=1059s

[Watchdog site shows Axanar Merchandise highlighting the real reasons why Axanar was legally challenged by CBS and Paramount]
http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=merchandise

[Merchandise for supposed 'film funding']
http://axamonitor.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=donor-store.jpg

Genuinely hopeful of a discussion and if you want any more evidence to back up my argument feel free to ask. But im genuinely angry about this. Trying to get fans to support him by claiming that CBS were just too worried that Axanar was 'TOO GOOD' and might be a commercial threat is ludicrous, and that seems to be the genuine method employed by the guy

AMKC

Genuinely hopeful of a discussion and if you want any more evidence to back up my argument feel free to ask. But im genuinely angry about this. Trying to get fans to support him by claiming that CBS were just too worried that Axanar was 'TOO GOOD' and might be a commercial threat is ludicrous, and that seems to be the genuine method employed by the guy
hal9550 is offline Report Post

CBS were worried do. They had the rights to Star Trek for T.V but had no idea in what direction to take it and then this comes out and gets lots off die hard fans very excited and got them worried. But instead of doing the clever thing and maybe offering to buy into it or buy it of him and make it the new Star Trek they decide to be arseholes and sue him. They still had no idea what to do with the franchise and only figured it out in the couple of years. Hardly innovative what they decided to do in the end.
I agree what this man and his independent production company is doing now does not sound right but unfortunately the damage has been done and you can not change the past. As far as I know fan productions can still be made they are just limited to something like 15mins now instead which is short but better than not at all.

hal9550

AMKC wrote: »

CBS were worried do. They had the rights to Star Trek for T.V but had no idea in what direction to take it and then this comes out and gets lots off die hard fans very excited and got them worried. But instead of doing the clever thing and maybe offering to buy into it or buy it of him and make it the new Star Trek they decide to be arseholes and sue him. They still had no idea what to do with the franchise and only figured it out in the couple of years. Hardly innovative what they decided to do in the end.
I agree what this man and his independent production company is doing now does not sound right but unfortunately the damage has been done and you can not change the past. As far as I know fan productions can still be made they are just limited to something like 15mins now instead which is short but better than not at all.

I acknowledge what you are saying, i respectfully disagree with you on the idea that CBS were Assholes.. TBH im not alone in that opinion. Take New Voyages and Continues

Favorite New Voyages Episode featuring George Takei
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4TC5wl0IzE

Favorite Continues Episode and probably my Fav Fan Produced episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJf2ovQtI6w

The idea that CBS behaved poorly and jealously/greedy doesnt hold water in my opinion. They allowed these productions to continue for many years despite having full knowledge that both Phase II (New Voyages) and Continues were professionally made, featured pro actors, and were receiving a lot of attention due to former Trek Alumni being involved

Yet They didnt sue???

The Trouble with Axanar was the commercialization, and the Continues producer, and main lead actor explained his thoughts several times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbjgYZ1kzE8

Creating Fan Productions is fine and the only OBVIOUS and Implicit rule was that you cant profit off it. You could:

• Make your show
• Produce how ever well you can
• Show it online and at conventions if you wish

Axanar went way beyond this. Having a separate merchandise line... and opening a company using crowdfunding, based off Star Trek IP.. I genuinely don't think its Assholish to suspect that the owner of said IP might have a problem with that


Moreover i genuinely believe crowdfunding for a movie, and then using the money raised to set up a studio/Production company is dishonest..

FutureGuy

In my opinion, the outcry from the fans across social media is ridiculous. You see it all over Facebook. "You shut down Anaxar so we won't watch Discovery".

Anaxar fully deserved to be shut down and he fully deserved to be sued. They didn't shut it down because they were jealous, they shut it down because they were taking the p!ss with Anaxar.

But the "fans" will still blame this silly concept of jealousy (not actual facts) instead of looking at the actual facts - CBS are reacting to a serious breach and misuse of their IP. Reminds me of anti-vaxxers if I'm being honest.

CBS has every right to defend their IP. Unfortunately, they are now defending it too strictly but I don't blame them. Blame Anaxar instead.

People can sh!t on Discovery and sh!t on CBS all they want but creators of Anaxar are the bad guys here. We had a stunning series in Star Trek Continues and that is now getting ****ed over too. Cheers!

hal9550

FutureGuy wrote: »

In my opinion, the outcry from the fans across social media is ridiculous. You see it all over Facebook. "You shut down Anaxar so we won't watch Discovery".

Anaxar fully deserved to be shut down and he fully deserved to be sued. They didn't shut it down because they were jealous, they shut it down because they were taking the p!ss with Anaxar.

But the "fans" will still blame this silly concept of jealousy (not actual facts) instead of looking at the actual facts - CBS are reacting to a serious breach and misuse of their IP. Reminds me of anti-vaxxers if I'm being honest.

CBS has every right to defend their IP. Unfortunately, they are now defending it too strictly but I don't blame them. Blame Anaxar instead.

People can sh!t on Discovery and sh!t on CBS all they want but creators of Anaxar are the bad guys here. We had a stunning series in Star Trek Continues and that is now getting ****ed over too. Cheers!

Yea that pretty much echoes my own feelings pal

What drew my attention was the podcast interview that Vic made about why that production had to reduce to 11 episodes. Continues re-energized my interest in Fan Productions, as i genuinely felt that their series was UTTERLY AMAZING. It became Star Trek, the LOST episodes!! for me, anyway

So i started to dig around into the Axanar. I was already aware of Axanar and was annoyed it had been shelved, but when i actually 'did my homework' i realized the Truth, and in my opinion many people atre possibly on the wrong side in this debate

What has bothered me even more is that this A**hole proceeded to paint the debacle as a small victory. 'Now we have guidelines'.. 'We really needed these'.. 'Now we wont have any future problems'.. This line of reasoning omits the OBVIOUS truth.. there were no problems, until Axanar came along

This Radio interview with Vic from STC (first 10-15 minutes are pretty telling).. what i find admirable is that Vic Manages to remain composed. I as a fan, feel genuine anger. I can only imagine how Vic and the production crew feel, yet he is measured in his words while also making the point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_uGg7_hRrQ&t=656s

Greyjoy

CBS had to step in and defend their IP and I say this as someone who was originally looking forward to Axanar. The alarm bells started ringing for me when the Axanar creators announced plans to build a new studio rather than simply rent existing space in LA.

Having said that CBS overstepped the mark in my view with their new draconian restrictions on fan films. They could still protect the Star Trek IP with the simple restriction of "don't attempt to profit from your fan film" but the new restrictions seemed designed more to dissuade people from creating fan films rather than just protecting the IP.

hal9550

Greyjoy wrote: »

Having said that CBS overstepped the mark in my view with their new draconian restrictions on fan films. They could still protect the Star Trek IP with the simple restriction of "don't attempt to profit from your fan film" but the new restrictions seemed designed more to dissuade people from creating fan films rather than just protecting the IP.

I agree with you in principle. They are draconian. But i think STC and Phase II were allowed to continue in a grey area because in a common sense kinda way they followed the Main Unwritten but implicit rule of fan production. Had STC or PHASE II begun selling DVDs or releasing a merchandise line, CBS would have intervened. To their credit they didn't and publicly stated they had no intention to do so. I think the Axanar situation forced CBS's hand.

There is a campaign to get the guidelines relaxed, but the damage is done. (I have links to it but im on my way out il post later)

Im glad to discuss this though because as FutureGuy stated, many fans are ferocious in their attacks on CBS, without (i think) fully understanding How and Why it happened

JayRoc

In my dreams CBS would've realised what a great job Mignogna and crew were doing with STC... and rather than subject them to the new rules on fan fims, they would have invested in it with a 3-series no-creative-interference deal, marketed it, sold the DVDs and made it canon.

In my dreams

pixelburp

My take? Both sides were in the wrong and behaved like idiots, both sides now leaving fan Trek all the poorer for their actions. Axanar behaved like greedy, entitled amateurs in trying to commercialise their fan film, showing the worse side of Trekkie fandom; CBS however also completely overreacted as a consequence of all this, applying the now overly strict rules and scuttling so many productions - and good will.

I suppose of the two sides, there's always a chance the studio might rejig the rules to be less strict - this happened IIRC with Star Wars when initial rules closed down loads of fan productions, before Lucasarts realised the error of their ways and rolled things back a little.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

My take? Both sides were in the wrong and behaved like idiots, both sides now leaving fan Trek all the poorer for their actions. Axanar behaved like greedy, entitled amateurs in trying to commercialise their fan film, showing the worse side of Trekkie fandom; CBS however also completely overreacted as a consequence of all this, applying the now overly strict rules and scuttling so many productions - and good will.

I suppose of the two sides, there's always a chance the studio might rejig the rules to be less strict - this happened IIRC with Star Wars when initial rules closed down loads of fan productions, before Lucasarts realised the error of their ways and rolled things back a little.

I think that this is CBS cracking the whip (especially given Discovery) and reminding everyone just who actually owns Trek i.e. who is boss.

Once Axanar actually goes away (and stops the dicking around as they continue to do) we will see gradual relaxing of the rules again, or at least blind eyes being turned

JayRoc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think that this is CBS cracking the whip (especially given Discovery) and reminding everyone just who actually owns Trek i.e. who is boss.

Once Axanar actually goes away (and stops the dicking around they continue to do) we will see gradual relaxing of the rules again, or at least blind eyes being turned

But maybe another way of looking at it, is what's in it for CBS if they don't start exerting some sort of control? As fan films increase in quality (not just production quality but most obviously working with professional actors) there is going to be more commercial potential, presumably.

Why would they not start cracking the whip (not that I want them to)? Goodwill from fans?

hal9550

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that this is CBS cracking the whip (especially given Discovery) and reminding everyone just who actually owns Trek i.e. who is boss.

Once Axanar actually goes away (and stops the dicking around as they continue to do) we will see gradual relaxing of the rules again, or at least blind eyes being turned

I hear what your saying and i would not dispute that it is a valid point. Where i would genuinely disagree with you is as follows:

If we are talking about CBS 'cracking the whip', an argument should be made on where, how, and most of all WHY they took action.

NEW VOYAGES/Phase II
Begins in 2004 with decent stories, incredible set designs and good acting with a notable inclusion of several Star Trek Alumni. Produces and releases a number of episodes that were of decent quality, and while i dont really re-watch them (one episode linked previously i have done several times).. all in all very good! Professional to a point.. and a running web (Fan)Series

Do CBS take action against a popular and well made fan series? NO!

Star Trek Continues

Begins in 2013 and is, in my mind, of a different level in terms of production level and professionally made. Trained and experienced acting, some alumni involvement, and several guest directors and screen writers. More over, somehow captures almost perfectly the feel of the Original Series of Star Trek by recreating the style of it almost flawlessly. Crowdfunded but also includes contributions by the staff, the producers Vic (who plays Kirk) obtains genuine official NOT-FOR-PROFIT Status in the US, and publically declares from the get go.. This is an Homage.. NON PROFIT, Respective of CBS and rights holders.. Roddenberry's Son visited and approved.. and has been in touch to be 100% sure that it is widely known that this is entirely without a profit motive.. Vic goes as far as to state that if asked to stop, they would without incident cease all productrion

Do CBS take action against a popular and well made fan series? NO!

Axanar

Im repeating myself here but effectively crowdfunds in the same way as Continues but rather than proceed to use the funds to make the film.. Production company set up.. Building leased.. Plan to lease equipment and building to other independent film producers.. Releases line of merchandise which is sold online, including Federation Starship models.. Klingon Starship models.. uniforms and insignia.. The guy in charge pays himself a salary

see: http://www.mobys.ws/01/03/axanar-and-profit-or-income-or-salary-or/

http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-jan-7th-2016/

Man in charge argues that just because its not for profit doesnt mean that he cant earn a living from it.. Compares Axanar related salary to organizations such as the Red Cross who pay their employees and are none the less Non Profit. Axanar continues crowdfunding and plans to lease facilities to third parties to make more 'Funds' available for Axanar production

Do CBS take action against a Axanar? ... Yes (Of course)

In my honest opinion it is totally clear why they took action and i really cant blame them for doing so.. at all

As to 'Cracking the whip'.. Yes its draconian but i think it was a genuine concern and once they felt that action was needed.. it probably went along the lines of getting legal advise and being advised to take stronger measures on a whole.. across all fan productions. Its clear from reading about it that Axanar pointed to New Voyages and Continues and effectively said..'If they can do this, why cant i do my thing?'.. its also clear he argued FOR guidelines and made this a FANS versus Corporation saga.. And that simply is not the case

Again.. in my opinion, a line was crossed and that switched on the legal aspects of CBS/Paramount ownership of Star Trek as an IP, and forced their hand.. They reacted harshly.. but its clear to see what the trigger was

You're not disagreeing with me actually.
It was the commercialisation of Axanar,it went from fan project to a business.

hal9550

Deleted User wrote: »

You're not disagreeing with me actually.
It was the commercialisation of Axanar,it went from fan project to a business.

Certainly i agree, i just think the Crack of the whip was probably at the encouraging of their legal department. As opposed to what Axanar stated which was along the lines of: Our film was gonna be JUST TOO GOOD! and that CBS felt threatened by it in relation to Discovery

I think we are basically singing from the same hymn sheet, and perhaps saying i disagreed was too strong. But what i should have said was that in relation to Discovery, no fan production was ever actually going to threaten it, in my opinion. We are trekkies and im sure you and I could have a fantastic debate on the Pros and Cons of Discovery and Trek as a whole!

Continues and New Voyages were homages and in the case of Continues, i would have genuinely watched that for years had it continued. Its my disappointment with the fall out from Axanar that encouraged my original posting

Apologies Cork_Exile i should have been clearer:o

The_Valeyard

I was really hopeful for Axanar, It looked very promising and had a lot of potential. That 20 minute prelude was excellent and felt very Trek like. The special effects were also very on the ball.

I think there is some truth in the story that CBS felt threatened in relation to ST:D. Sure both seem to be covering basically the same era?

But the way both sides handled it was appalling, and the Axanar business model, may have permanently damaged a fans ability to create their own Star Trek series.

Inviere

The behaviour of the producer was pretty bad, and ultimately CBS were right to protect their IP by shutting Axanar down. To hamstring future fan made productions the way they have though, is very poor form.

hal9550

Inviere wrote: »

The behaviour of the producer was pretty bad, and ultimately CBS were right to protect their IP by shutting Axanar down. To hamstring future fan made productions the way they have though, is very poor form.

I agree it was harsh but i suspect their solicitors advised them on that course. With Axanar using Continues and other productions as a precedent it was almost baiting CBS to take the measures they did.

One guy has highlighted that these are just guidelines but the fact that continues decided to end after episode 11.. and New Voyages basically wrapped up.. very disappointing and genuinely makes my blood boil..

server down

You can be a non profit and pay a salary. A salary isn’t a profit.

The real issue for IP is that if you set a lenient precedent that can blow back in your face. If you ignore fan companies making exact copies of your sets, uniforms, names etc then that can be seen by courts as diluting the IP. If you didn’t sue this company why do you think you can sue this other company?

Presumably this is why the fan flicks are non profit - CBS can argue its lenient with non profits but would sue profit making enterprises.

When people start sellling your merchandise though, you have to stop that. I have no idea how they thought they could sell Star Trek merch