Discovery 1x06 – "Lethe" [** SPOILERS **]

fxotoole

fxotoole wrote: »

They played on Picard's PTSD after being Locutus a fair bit. It was referenced in the episode immediately after "The Best of Both Worlds part 2", and it was also delved into in Star Trek: First Contact.

But there was a few years between the episode and First Contact, wasn't there? Plus Picard seemed to go through hell at the hand's of the Cardassians for a prolonged period of time, and then... nothing.

Josey Wales

spookwoman wrote: »

I don't know if Lorca is just a nut or is from another universe. I's like to know who the 85 kills belong to

85 kills?

spookwoman

Josey Wales wrote: »

85 kills?

Sorry, only just managed to get a closer look and it's 36 kills, reflection over the 3 made it look like an 8. wonder who that is

brainfreeze

Deleted User wrote: »

But there was a few years between the episode and First Contact, wasn't there? Plus Picard seemed to go through hell at the hand's of the Cardassians for a prolonged period of time, and then... nothing.

You can't really fault TNG that much, because it was a mostly episodic show being a product of its time, but you are correct. That was one of the biggest flaws of Trek.

DS9 Broke that cycle, and Miles O'Briens PTSD was a recurring theme - one episode he tried to commit suicide! Pretty much everything that happened post season 3 had lasting effects on the characters. Even sub characters, watching Nog go from a happy go lucky cheeky little scamp into a depressed, battle hardened young lieutenant was interesting. And he's not even that important.

You can't get that type of character building when the slate is wiped clean every episode. I'm glad Discovery is not that type of show. I supposed in 2017 you couldn't get away with that for anything that is slightly more than a generic sitcom.

spookwoman

spookwoman wrote: »

Sorry, only just managed to get a closer look and it's 36 kills, reflection over the 3 made it look like an 8. wonder who that is

Was that not from the klingon holodeck thing with the head of security? actually wasn't the head of security guy the one who got the 36? or did you see that again somewhere else?

brainfreeze

brainfreeze wrote: »

You can't really fault TNG that much, because it was a mostly episodic show being a product of its time, but you are correct. That was one of the biggest flaws of Trek.

DS9 Broke that cycle, and Miles O'Briens PTSD was a recurring theme - one episode he tried to commit suicide! Pretty much everything that happened post season 3 had lasting effects on the characters. Even sub characters, watching Nog go from a happy go lucky cheeky little scamp into a depressed, battle hardened young lieutenant was interesting. And he's not even that important.

You can't get that type of character building when the slate is wiped clean every episode. I'm glad Discovery is not that type of show. I supposed in 2017 you couldn't get away with that for anything that is slightly more than a generic sitcom.

Nog going from happy-go-lucky to battle-hardened and then, ultimately, suffering from PTSD was such an excellent character progression. And Miles was the exact same.

server down

bluewolf wrote: »

Was that not from the klingon holodeck thing with the head of security? actually wasn't the head of security guy the one who got the 36? or did you see that again somewhere else?

Yes. Ash got 36 kills. He lied and said 22 to not embarrass the captain - but the captain checked.

AMKC

bluewolf wrote: »

oooh!! because she was looking all confused at her phaser when the klingons attacked!!
or maybe tyler did it because he's head of security now he'd know about the mission
although someone on reddit pointed out the klingons didn't fire either, they stabbed the guys, so maybe there was an anti weapons thing in place. hmm

Its called a dampening field.

Inviere wrote: »

^^ Wouldn't surprise me at all! The only issue with it, is it's a tad predictable and very reminiscent of the Redemption TNG storyline. If I recall correctly, and I'm digging deep in my ST brain here, but I'm fairly sure its written in canon that the

Klingons did obtain cloaking tech from the Romulans, in exchange for the D7 or D5 design

...or something very similar to that effect

Yes that is true.

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH Lorca was just tortured and is still overcoming what happened to his last ship.

And something I actually love is how this stuff is carrying on into other episodes. I can't remember, but I seem to remember that when Picard was captured and tortured, there was no real mention of it in later episodes.

No he just talked to Dianna at the end of the second of them episodes but that was it. But I would say a lot more time passed its just that we never seen it. Could have been a good chance to let Riker command the ship for a while when Picard was get counselling.

fxotoole wrote: »

They played on Picard's PTSD after being Locutus a fair bit. It was referenced in the episode immediately after "The Best of Both Worlds part 2", and it was also delved into in Star Trek: First Contact.

That episode being "Family"

Deleted User wrote: »

But there was a few years between the episode and First Contact, wasn't there? Plus Picard seemed to go through hell at the hand's of the Cardassians for a prolonged period of time, and then... nothing.

Yes there was.

I say there was more they we just never got to see that or know how many weeks went by all we seen was him talking to Dianna at the end of the second of them episodes but that was it. But I would say a lot more time passed its just that we never seen it. Could have been a good chance to let Riker command the ship for a while when Picard was get counselling.


As for this episode I really liked it but was not to keen on the floating/out of body bit.

Also how did they use the spore drive this time I wonder. Did Stamets step into the room again with the spores we never got to see. I am also surprised they never showed if Lorca was angry with Micheal or not for letting the creature go.
I knew well the Klingons were not going to negotiate so soon so the ending was very obvious.

server down

How they are using the spore drive (probably Stamets) will no doubt be revealed more in the next few episodes. You’d think anyway.

Spear

A cynical supposition:

it's been 4 episodes with Lorca and he's going off the rails fairly quickly.

And Jason Isaacs is the biggest name among the regular cast, and thus more expensive.

I wonder if he's only signed on for one season to help anchor the show, and thus will never see season 2.

AMKC

Spear wrote: »

A cynical supposition:

it's been 4 episodes with Lorca and he's going off the rails fairly quickly.

And Jason Isaacs is the biggest name among the regular cast, and thus more expensive.

I wonder if he's only signed on for one season to help anchor the show, and thus will never see season 2.

I think there would be a lot of people on here very unhappy if that happened. As long as the show continues to do well I think he will be there and I think the show would lose a lot of fans if he did go. Besides the Captain goes down with her/his ship.

Spear

AMKC wrote: »

I think there would be a lot of people on here very unhappy if that happened. As long as the show continues to do well I think he will be there and I think the show would lose a lot of fans if he did go. Besides the Captain goes down with her/his ship.

Lorca's record on that ain't so great...

But his departure would lessen the show, but given the overall arc is planned it could already be a done thing.

smunchkins

Well talking about a possible mirror universe Lorca not knowing what is going on, wouldn't it be mad if he was a Klingon imposter/spy instead?
That would also fit the "reading up on files but not knowing personal stuff" theory Evade has.
Doubt it would fully pan out logically, but its interesting to watch the episodes with that in mind.

I really hope it turns out he isn't a Mirror Lorca. It would be great to see a Captain who seemed like they actually reacted to and felt stuff.

tromtipp

My reading of the last two episodes is that Stammets is being affected by the spores in a way that will let him access more than one reality, and that Lorca is from the mirror universe.

Is anyone else watching After Trek? I think the Tribbles in the background are doubling each week - giving 32 this week. By the end of the season Matt Mira is going to be swimming through them.

PhiloCypher

Spear wrote: »

A cynical supposition:

it's been 4 episodes with Lorca and he's going off the rails fairly quickly.

And Jason Isaacs is the biggest name among the regular cast, and thus more expensive.

I wonder if he's only signed on for one season to help anchor the show, and thus will never see season 2.

I pondered as much on reddit

r/StarTrekDiscovery
Is Jason Isaacs in this for the long haul ?

Between Discovery, OA and all the films he's got going on he's a busy man . He's the first Trek Captain who has had a busy film/tv career prior to taking the role, which begs the question how significant a role will he play in future seasons. Would he really have signed on for 6+ 15 episode seasons ?(or however many eps a season they're planning).

Bear with me . Lorca is unlike any captain we've ever had leading a trek show (yes I know Michael, strictly speaking, is the lead), he is very much in the Jellico mould , great in small doses but very much a war time captain and wars end . Imo the open conflict phase of this one will end after season one and we'll enter into a TOS style stalemate which will allow Discovery to become a show/ship of exploration instead of war. In such a scenario can anyone see Lorca as a peacetime captain seeking out new life and new civilisations and not vaporising them ? I can't , not the way he has been portrayed so far anyways.

In short has he been written as such a harsh and uncompromising character because they plan to :

A) Kill him off at the end of season 1 , maybe have him sacrifice himself in the battle that drives the Klingons to cease open hostilities, freeing Isaacs to pursue other projects .

His military genius sees him defeat the Klingons, driving them to cease hostilities in return for the federation banning spore travel, but it comes at great cost. He's stripped of his rank in disgrace and becomes a recurring Garth of Izeresque antagonist in future seasons.

C)he does the above but is promoted instead and becomes one of those morally compromised Admirals that we've seen in TNG/DS9 and becomes a recurring character .

Johnny Storm

Deleted User wrote: »

I really hope it turns out he isn't a Mirror Lorca. It would be great to see a Captain who seemed like they actually reacted to and felt stuff.

Good point. :pac:
If that is the case then how dark and amoral will the actual mirror-Lorca turn out to be?

Johnny Storm

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Good point. :pac:
If that is the case then how dark and amoral will the actual mirror-Lorca turn out to be?

It would be funny if this Lorca is the evil one and if we see a mirror one, they turn out to be lovely.

Goodshape

I've a feeling Burnham will redeem herself in the eyes of Starfleet and become captain of Discovery before/at the end of the season.

The character needs to go somewhere and I can't think of a better arc for her.

server down

Goodshape wrote: »

I've a feeling Burnham will redeem herself in the eyes of Starfleet and become captain of Discovery before/at the end of the season.

The character needs to go somewhere and I can't think of a better arc for her.

I expect she will be a captain alright, if they think her character works out.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Tilly becomes the Captain somehow. In the most recent episode she mentioned how she has it worked out already.

Optimus Prime

has anyone thought that maybe the captain was replaced with the Klingon dude that has to "sacrifice everything" from the previous ep? When he was in the prison, brought down to be tortured, he was instead having his genetics or whatever scanned so the Klingon could alter himself then replace him? So when he was brought back to the cell it was the Klingon not the captain?

The captain is still in the cell with Harry mud and maybe seperatly they escape which will bring mud back into the show again..

he escaped, pretty easily, and is now sleeping with a phaser, doesn't remember some stuff the other admiral was going on about, being with him is not the same as before etc..

Just speculating!

Optimus Prime

Optimus Prime wrote: »

has anyone thought that maybe the captain was replaced with the Klingon dude that has to "sacrifice everything" from the previous ep? When he was in the prison, brought down to be tortured, he was instead having his genetics or whatever scanned so the Klingon could alter himself then replace him? So when he was brought back to the cell it was the Klingon not the captain?

The captain is still in the cell with Harry mud and maybe seperatly they escape which will bring mud back into the show again..

he escaped, pretty easily, and is now sleeping with a phaser, doesn't remember some stuff the other admiral was going on about, being with him is not the same as before etc..

Just speculating!

Now that's interesting.

Mitch Connor

Spear wrote: »

A cynical supposition:

it's been 4 episodes with Lorca and he's going off the rails fairly quickly.

And Jason Isaacs is the biggest name among the regular cast, and thus more expensive.

I wonder if he's only signed on for one season to help anchor the show, and thus will never see season 2.

I reckon the season ends with Michael having to lead a mutiny against lorca. That will be what takes him out of future seasons, and i would say that has been signposted from the off.

Zillah

server down wrote: »

Yes. Ash got 36 kills. He lied and said 22 to not embarrass the captain - but the captain checked.

That whole scene pissed me off a little bit. Like, are these guys supposed to be the greatest warriors the universe has ever seen? Surely taking out a single Klingon in a battle is a big achievement; two or three makes you a champion. 36 is just straight into "the writers were playing Halo just before they wrote that scene" territory.

Johnny Storm

Deleted User wrote: »

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Tilly becomes the Captain somehow....

Captain of the good ship Lollypop, maybe :P

PhiloCypher

Zillah wrote: »

That whole scene pissed me off a little bit. Like, are these guys supposed to be the greatest warriors the universe has ever seen? Surely taking out a single Klingon in a battle is a big achievement; two or three makes you a champion. 36 is just straight into "the writers were playing Halo just before they wrote that scene" territory.

Think you're mistaking the Klingons for Borg.

Zillah

Zillah wrote: »

That whole scene pissed me off a little bit. Like, are these guys supposed to be the greatest warriors the universe has ever seen? Surely taking out a single Klingon in a battle is a big achievement; two or three makes you a champion. 36 is just straight into "the writers were playing Halo just before they wrote that scene" territory.

Eh maybe they just had the holodeck on easy mode!

hal9550

bluewolf wrote: »

Eh maybe they just had the holodeck on easy mode!

:P:D:pac:

I have a strange image of Barclay emerging from a Holodeck Borg Combat simulation with 400+ kills.. Well done says Riker.. Without changing the settings he enters to see how difficult it was

Borg Drones run up to the Riker and shout 'WE ARE THE BORG YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED'.. and then begin to shove him gently.. One even places his hand on Rikers elbow.. On pushing back Riker finds the borg fall over in pain and self destruct

(im sorry its off topic but when i read that easy mode comment its what sprung to mind!)

AMKC

I like the theory some posters have suggested here that Lorca is actually a Klingon spy and Lorca is still in the Klingon prison because it did seem like he got out of there with Ash very easy. Done before with DR.Bashir in DS9 but a little different. It also makes more sense then why the Klingon spy that is Lorca had no problem sending the Admiral to negotiate as he probably knew it was a trap and she would be captured.

I also like the idea of Micheal becoming Captain of the Discovery but I have a different theory for that. What if she finds out that Lorca is actually a Klingon spy and has to kill him. She then goes to rescue the real Captain Lorca but finds out he is not at the Klingon Prison they thought he was at.

Optimus Prime

Yep that’s what I’m thinking. It’s lining up Michael finding out and having to mutiny again but the crew doesn’t believe her. My feeling is the girl she is room mates with is going to be killed and kick it off.

silverharp

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Yep that’s what I’m thinking. It’s lining up Michael finding out and having to mutiny again but the crew doesn’t believe her. My feeling is the girl she is room mates with is going to be killed and kick it off.

oh yes please, i hope redzer has a date with an open airlock :pac:

what if tilly is the spy and her big personality is just a big cover!! oooo
:P

Evade

If Lorca is a spy* or from the mirror universe wouldn't that put Saru in charge? Leaving Burnham to re take the role of first officer as we were told the series would follow a first officer. That or Burnham will be killed and we can focus on Saru.

*Unlikely. One tricorder scan would show he's a Klingon like what happened in the Touble with Tribbles with Arne Darvin. I know, I know. I'm bringing up that pesky canon again.

AMKC

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Yep that’s what I’m thinking. It’s lining up Michael finding out and having to mutiny again but the crew doesn’t believe her. My feeling is the girl she is room mates with is going to be killed and kick it off.

Awe no I hope they don,t kill Tilly off.

silverharp wrote: »

oh yes please, i hope redzer has a date with an open airlock :pac:

Her name is Tilly.

Evade wrote: »

If Lorca is a spy* or from the mirror universe wouldn't that put Saru in charge? Leaving Burnham to re take the role of first officer as we were told the series would follow a first officer. That or Burnham will be killed and we can focus on Saru.

*Unlikely. One tricorder scan would show he's a Klingon like what happened in the Touble with Tribbles with Arne Darvin. I know, I know. I'm bringing up that pesky canon again.

Good point unless the Klingons have some way around it or its some sort of shapeshifter. After all Klingons might have come into contact with races that can shapeshift long before Humans did.

Evade

AMKC wrote: »

Good point unless the Klingons have some way around it or its some sort of shapeshifter. After all Klingons might have come into contact with races that can shapeshift long before Humans did.

I think that's not very likely given their xenophobic streak in STD.

Spear

More musings.

There's an endgame to this. The series is a planned out in advance thing, unlike past series, so there's an endgame this comes for this season at least.

So that spore drive needs to be made to go away.

And we've established Lorca likes to blow things up rather than let Klingons get their hands on it.

I suspect the latter may be the solution to the former.

But on the other hand, Burnham seems to be on the same track as she was on Shenzhou. She's gotten out of prison, back onto a ship, and now back onto the bridge. Not sure how that could factor into this.

But I do note the dark humour of Lorca's former and more exploded ship being named after the failed Soviet shuttle copy, as a parallel to Discovery, also bearing the name of a more successful and less explodey shuttle.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

If Lorca is a spy* or from the mirror universe wouldn't that put Saru in charge? Leaving Burnham to re take the role of first officer as we were told the series would follow a first officer. That or Burnham will be killed and we can focus on Saru.

*Unlikely. One tricorder scan would show he's a Klingon like what happened in the Touble with Tribbles with Arne Darvin. I know, I know. I'm bringing up that pesky canon again.

That's actually an interesting point. Have we seen Tribbles since Lorca came back?

hal9550

Spear wrote: »

More musings.

There's an endgame to this. The series is a planned out in advance thing, unlike past series, so there's an endgame this comes for this season at least.

So that spore drive needs to be made to go away.

And we've established Lorca likes to blow things up rather than let Klingons get their hands on it.

I suspect the latter may be the solution to the former.

But on the other hand, Burnham seems to be on the same track as she was on Shenzhou. She's gotten out of prison, back onto a ship, and now back onto the bridge. Not sure how that could factor into this.

But I do note the dark humour of Lorca's former and more exploded ship being named after the failed Soviet shuttle copy, as a parallel to Discovery, also bearing the name of a more successful and less explodey shuttle.

Great point on the shuttle metaphore.. totally missed that but well done on spotting it

I personally wouldnt like it if Lorca is from the mirrorverse for a number of reasons:

• It seems very likely that Ash is a klingon.. perhaps one metagenically converted into a human, as opposed to simple cosmetic surgery. Personally i feel one 'Bad guy in disguise' is enough
• I think it gets away from the nature of the case, in that Lorca is a damaged Captain after what has happened and is happening at the moment.. I think its more likely his experience on Buran have darkened his attitude away from the high rising morality of the UFP and more in line with Section 31s way of thinking

THAT SAID if he is mirrorverse than i think its safe to assume he has a mission:

Perhaps he was sent over to gather intel on the state of events in the prime-verse.. Perhaps to gather technological intelligence.. The empire has the defiant, and presumably have taken the time to analyze what has happened with the Klingons.. I dont believe for a second that Empress Sato deleted the historical files on the defiant so its safe to assume they are familiar with whats going on right now, having historical knowledge of the events of Discovery..

Did they say the Mirror universe will appear this season or at some point in the show?

Gotta be honest, I always felt they were the weakest episodes of the Trek franchises that did them.

hal9550

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they say the Mirror universe will appear this season or at some point in the show?

Gotta be honest, I always felt they were the weakest episodes of the Trek franchises that did them.

http://comicbook.com/startrek/2017/10/10/star-trek-discovery-mirror-universe/

As to you thinking the episodes are weak

• The original was excellent in my mind.. The enterprise episodes, although poorly constructed, was pretty enjoyable
• Some of the DS9 episodes were excellent, although i generally didnt like the idea of blaming Spock on the Fall and enslavement of the terrans

Further Note.. If anyone really enjoyed 'TOS MIRROR MIRROR' then i would genuinely recommend they watch this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJf2ovQtI6w


Its a Star Trek Continues Episode set after the events of the TOS episode, and it is so professionally done, with real actors that i really do consider it a true sequel

hal9550

hal9550 wrote: »

http://comicbook.com/startrek/2017/10/10/star-trek-discovery-mirror-universe/

As to you thinking the episodes are weak

• The original was excellent in my mind.. The enterprise episodes, although poorly constructed, was pretty enjoyable
• Some of the DS9 episodes were excellent, although i generally didnt like the idea of blaming Spock on the Fall and enslavement of the terrans

Further Note.. If anyone really enjoyed 'TOS MIRROR MIRROR' then i would genuinely recommend they watch this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJf2ovQtI6w


Its a Star Trek Continues Episode set after the events of the TOS episode, and it is so professionally done, with real actors that i really do consider it a true sequel

I haven't watched the TOS Mirror Universe episodes, but I always just felt that the DS9 ones were very ham-fisted and just served as a way for the cast to act out of character and wear skin-tight leather.

Again - that's just a personal opinion.

I'm still confused as to whether "upcoming episode" means this season or beyond. But likely this season.

hal9550

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't watched the TOS Mirror Universe episodes, but I always just felt that the DS9 ones were very ham-fisted and just served as a way for the cast to act out of character and wear skin-tight leather.

Again - that's just a personal opinion.

I'm still confused as to whether "upcoming episode" means this season or beyond. But likely this season.

I read it as this season.

I would say that you are missing out having not watched Mirror Mirror.. Its without doubt one of the best episodes of TOS, and Star Trek as a whole

I genuinely Felt that the enslavement of the Terran Empire was a silly plot device to employ in the DS9 episodes.. and that they basically did it for the chance to have certain characters play a bad guy version of themselves.. Compared to the enterprise episodes 'In a mirror Darkly, (which was a silly story), .. Well in my opinion it was far more interesting to see a corrupted Starfleet, than to have 'The Alliance' being the main bad guys.. I also found the idea of a Klingon/Cardassian Alliance very hard to swallow.. The Klingons allign and practically unify with the Cardassians,, Personally the argument against this is obvious for the Klingons.. the Cardassians CANNOT be trusted!!! lol (Think O Brien said something similar in a DS9 episode, possibly read out during his trial by the Cardassians)

hal9550

hal9550 wrote: »

I read it as this season.

I would say that you are missing out having not watched Mirror Mirror.. Its without doubt one of the best episodes of TOS, and Star Trek as a whole

I genuinely Felt that the enslavement of the Terran Empire was a silly plot device to employ in the DS9 episodes.. and that they basically did it for the chance to have certain characters play a bad guy version of themselves.. Compared to the enterprise episodes 'In a mirror Darkly, (which was a silly story), .. Well in my opinion it was far more interesting to see a corrupted Starfleet, than to have 'The Alliance' being the main bad guys.. I also found the idea of a Klingon/Cardassian Alliance very hard to swallow.. The Klingons allign and practically unify with the Cardassians,, Personally the argument against this is obvious for the Klingons.. the Cardassians CANNOT be trusted!!! lol (Think O Brien said something similar in a DS9 episode, possibly read out during his trial by the Cardassians)

Oh the story aspects were likely excellent, but it got brought down massively by the likes of Sisko and Bashir et al being just bad guy versions of themselves. And then when they tried to do it again with the new Dax ...

Hopefully with Discovery being much grittier, they'll move away from the campiness of those previous ones.

hal9550

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh the story aspects were likely excellent, but it got brought down massively by the likes of Sisko and Bashir et al being just bad guy versions of themselves. And then when they tried to do it again with the new Dax ...

Hopefully with Discovery being much grittier, they'll move away from the campiness of those previous ones.

Agreed

I think logically the Discovery version will be better.. The Terran Empire will be in full swing at this point in History..

im also pretty convinced of one massive and obvious point

Georgeou will be back OF COURSE! Wouldn't at all surprise me if she is the Empress and possibly a descendant of Sato.. And it will be her attitude and actions that will convince the prime universe crew (who ever goes over that is) that the Mirror Universe is the total opposite of the prime.. Georgeou in Prime is altruistic and all about exploring peacefully.. Easy to see that her mirror counterpart could be in the process of occupying Bajor, enslaving various races, and knocking seven bells outta anyone who trys to stop her!

smunchkins

smunchkins wrote: »

Well talking about a possible mirror universe Lorca not knowing what is going on, wouldn't it be mad if he was a Klingon imposter/spy instead?
That would also fit the "reading up on files but not knowing personal stuff" theory Evade has.
Doubt it would fully pan out logically, but its interesting to watch the episodes with that in mind.

Optimus Prime wrote: »

has anyone thought that maybe the captain was replaced with the Klingon dude that has to "sacrifice everything" from the previous ep? When he was in the prison, brought down to be tortured, he was instead having his genetics or whatever scanned so the Klingon could alter himself then replace him? So when he was brought back to the cell it was the Klingon not the captain?

The captain is still in the cell with Harry mud and maybe seperatly they escape which will bring mud back into the show again..

he escaped, pretty easily, and is now sleeping with a phaser, doesn't remember some stuff the other admiral was going on about, being with him is not the same as before etc..

Just speculating!

Hepeated..... :rolleyes:

smunchkins

smunchkins wrote: »

Hepeated..... :rolleyes:

... what? Hepeated?

Goodshape

Ordered: https://shop.startrek.com/product/Z1CTSTK221/star-trek-discovery-disco-tshirt

As merchandising goes, this one's pretty great I think.

Goodshape

Deleted User wrote: »

Gotta be honest, I always felt they were the weakest episodes of the Trek franchises that did them.

Totally agree. With exception of the original series episode ("Mirror, Mirror" – well worth a watch!) they've always seemed like more fun for the cast and crew than the viewer, and gives the writers too much room to get away with some silly out-of-character, out-of-context, stuff. Hope Discovery does better.

And building a character up only to reveal they're not who we thought they were is a terrible plot device. It'd work for Ash because of the way he was brought onboard, and there's been a palpable suspicion both on the show and in the forums since he joined.

But Lorca has reasons for being how he is. The fact that he is unhinged is the thing that makes him interesting. To suddenly turn around and say "oh, gotcha! This is just the evil imposter version! The real Lorca is..." ...well who cares who the 'real' Lorca is? We've gotten to know this one. You can't just bait-and-switch a character like that. (I hope).

Although I think people are getting carried away with the mirror-universe speculation anyway. Something is happening there. Let's just let it play out.

Johnny Storm

hal9550 wrote: »

I would say that you are missing out having not watched Mirror Mirror.. Its without doubt one of the best episodes of TOS, and Star Trek as a whole...

+1