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How has the 8th amendment affected your care?

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    #32
    scarepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭scarepanda


    Shesty, in my experience with ballinasloe, albeit a gyne issue (but your dealing with the same staff and department), the care I received was atrocious, to the point that when it came to deciding where to have my LO i travelled 50 minutes to go to Mullingar rather than the 10 minutes into portiuncla. I just couldn't trust them in portiuncla.


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    #33
    lashes34
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭lashes34


    Being pregnant has really opened my eyes to the 8th amendment. Going back years I was pro-life, thought it was just about abortion but the last few years I have realised if there was a referendum that I would vote for repealing the 8th as in its not my choice what others do with their bodies.

    Since I got pregnant, I realise how wrong the whole thing is. Pregnancy is tough and to be forced to go through it against your wishes is horrendous. I tried for years to get pregnant and had 4 rounds of fertility treatment and while I am very happy to have this baby on the way, I am struggling with pregnancy. To be going through this when its not what you want must be torture.

    The sooner the 8th amendment is gone, the better in my eyes.


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    #34
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    scarepanda wrote: »
    Shesty, in my experience with ballinasloe, albeit a gyne issue (but your dealing with the same staff and department), the care I received was atrocious, to the point that when it came to deciding where to have my LO i travelled 50 minutes to go to Mullingar rather than the 10 minutes into portiuncla. I just couldn't trust them in portiuncla.

    Which would make me question why they have a maternity unit there at all then.....


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    #35
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    shesty wrote: »
    How much that actually has to do with the 8th, I don't know but I'm beginning to wonder if we need to shout a lot louder about basic standardisation of care across the country.

    Check out the AIMS Ireland FB page - this is a big part of what they campaign for.


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    #36
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    shesty wrote: »
    Which would make me question why they have a maternity unit there at all then.....

    Look what happened when they tried to close Monaghan.

    A small unit delivering few babies in a relatively remote area will find it difficult to attract quality high level staff.
    Delivering few babies and anything complicated being referred elsewhere means your mid level staff get de-skilled. Maintaining training levels is difficult because you have to cover few staff members but they're all working shifts at different times. You only need one piece of each equipment so if it breaks there's no redundancy and you're low priority for fixes.

    Medically speaking they're a nightmare but politically speaking there a bigger nightmare to close.


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    #37
    scarepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭scarepanda


    shesty wrote:
    Which would make me question why they have a maternity unit there at all then.....


    I suppose ballinasloe has a massive catchment area. From ballinasloe east to west Mullingar and Galway are both an hour away, and it's not any better North to South.

    All of my friends have had babies there and no one has had any major complaints about the place, that I know of, although most don't have any other option other than ballinasloe. However, in my opinion the care some received was substandard, but if you don't know any different you've nothing to compare it with. The only thing that ballinasloe does that Mullingar doesn't that I wish they did is that you get scanned at every or most appointments. In Mullingar you only get scanned if the Dr has a reason to (in my case the last two appointments to measure babys size).


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    #38
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Which really goes back to the overall thing of how badly the health system is set up.I can understand why people wouldn't want to lose a local hospital but honestly, they are basically saying they'd prefer to risk the lives of people (be they mothers, babies, whatever) with more serious conditions being mismanaged or missed completely, rather than accept that it is not viable to keep the smaller hospital open, that maybe a large 24/7 clinic to deal with minor matters and a proper community health system in it, would be the better option.

    Sorry.The engineer in me gets deeply, deeply frustrated at the whole shambles of a system (not just health) when there ARE so many ways it could be fixed.All require money obviously but jeez, invest the money once, properly, and you save yourself millions in the following years.All stopped by apparent ignorance and petty rows over local 'fiefdoms' essentially.

    Anyway.Back on topic.


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    #39
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    A proper community midwifery system would save a bloody fortune.

    I'm on #2 in the UK and low risk women see community midwives for the overwhelming majority of our care - I've literally only had to go to the hospital this time for the 12 and 20 week scans because all my midwife appointments have been in a clinic room in the local children's centre. I've seen the same midwife for all my appointments this time (along with half of them last time) and she's been really helpful, answered all my questions, given me work-friendly appointment times (9am every time works very well for me so I can drop my son to nursery first) and there's always a full 30 minute slot open.

    There's no reason why women should have to be treated like they're in a cattle mart at hospital every few weeks when a community midwifery team could be seeing all the low risk women in community settings (this even involves home visits in rural areas) and doing a decent chunk of the medium risk basic antenatal care too.


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    #40
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    grind gremlin wrote: »
    The 8th amendment made a very tough experience much more difficult in my situation.
    In 2014 I had 3 miscarriages.on my second, I was using ovulation kits and was 100% clear on my dates. After my first loss I decided to pay for a private early scan. At that point I should have been 9+ weeks. Scan showed bub measure 6 weeks 2 days but without a heartbeat. I got a letter from them and faxed it to the epau in the Coombe.
    They contacted me and I had a scan with them 2 days later (on a fri). Measurements were slightly smaller than the previous scan. I thought at this point that a miscarriage would be confirmed and I would be given tablets to bring on a mc..... not so in Ireland.... instead... because of the 8th... I was told I would have to wait another week for a follow up scan to 'confirm' the miscarriage. I absolutely fell apart. I'd already spent 3 days crying over this loss and now I was being sent home for another week.
    Following week I arrived for a follow up scan. Miscarriage confirmed but as it was Friday, the earlier appointments for a d and c the following week were all gone. I was scheduled for surgery mid week. 2 weeks after I was first told there was no heartbeat.
    My body finally realised what had happened and I miscarried naturally the night before my scheduled d and c.
    The 8th ammendment needs to be repealed, not replaced. I would hate for anyone else to have to be in my position.


    Are you sure that this triple checking is due to the 8th amendment? And not due to the miscarriage misdiagnosis scandal?
    I know that midwives and doctors have to be 100% sure before they can book a D n C under HSE policy that emerged after that scandal.


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    #41
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Wesser wrote: »
    Are you sure that this triple checking is due to the 8th amendment? And not due to the miscarriage misdiagnosis scandal?
    I know that midwives and doctors have to be 100% sure before they can book a D n C under HSE policy that emerged after that scandal.

    Everything is caused by the 8th amendment, have you not read the memo?


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    #42
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    A proper community midwifery system would save a bloody fortune.

    I'm on #2 in the UK and low risk women see community midwives for the overwhelming majority of our care - I've literally only had to go to the hospital this time for the 12 and 20 week scans because all my midwife appointments have been in a clinic room in the local children's centre. I've seen the same midwife for all my appointments this time (along with half of them last time) and she's been really helpful, answered all my questions, given me work-friendly appointment times (9am every time works very well for me so I can drop my son to nursery first) and there's always a full 30 minute slot open.

    There's no reason why women should have to be treated like they're in a cattle mart at hospital every few weeks when a community midwifery team could be seeing all the low risk women in community settings (this even involves home visits in rural areas) and doing a decent chunk of the medium risk basic antenatal care too.

    But that would mean taking maternity out of the clinical setting and accepting that it's nature and not a medical procedure.......(obviously I mean within reason).


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    #43
    Cakerbaker
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Cakerbaker


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    A proper community midwifery system would save a bloody fortune.

    I'm on #2 in the UK and low risk women see community midwives for the overwhelming majority of our care - I've literally only had to go to the hospital this time for the 12 and 20 week scans because all my midwife appointments have been in a clinic room in the local children's centre. I've seen the same midwife for all my appointments this time (along with half of them last time) and she's been really helpful, answered all my questions, given me work-friendly appointment times (9am every time works very well for me so I can drop my son to nursery first) and there's always a full 30 minute slot open.

    There's no reason why women should have to be treated like they're in a cattle mart at hospital every few weeks when a community midwifery team could be seeing all the low risk women in community settings (this even involves home visits in rural areas) and doing a decent chunk of the medium risk basic antenatal care too.

    I attended a community midwife clinic attached to Holles St in a Wicklow suburb of Dublin and it was brilliant. Never waited longer than 30 mins for appointments. Had some checks with my GP in between. Only went to the hospital for my 20 week scan and the birth. Will be doing the same this time round. It should definitely be made more common. And I was released early from hospital after the birth and midwives visited me at home.


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    #44
    Toastytoes
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Toastytoes


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Everything is caused by the 8th amendment, have you not read the memo?

    People are discussing how they feel the 8th has affected their care. Do you have something useful to add to the discussion?

    If not, what exactly are you doing here?


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    #45
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Everything is caused by the 8th amendment, have you not read the memo?[/quote]

    I actually feel really sorry for the doctors and nurses who have to work in these conditions.

    Woman presents at 7 weeks with bleeding.
    On one hand... if they don't scan.enough... they may miss a beating heart .... an do in appropriate D n C.

    On the other hand..... scan too much and the women are shouting...... ah!!! My rights!!! My body!!

    Hard to get it right!


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    #46
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #47
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    E=Wesser wrote: »

    I actually feel really sorry for the doctors and nurses who have to work in these conditions.

    Woman presents at 7 weeks with bleeding.
    On one hand... if they don't scan.enough... they may miss a beating heart .... an do in appropriate D n C.

    On the other hand..... scan too much and the women are shouting...... ah!!! My rights!!! My body!!

    Hard to get it right!

    You've missed the point completely.


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    #48
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Everything is caused by the 8th amendment, have you not read the memo?

    This is not the place. If you want to discuss the 8th amendment generally then please go to AH where there are numerous threads already discussing it. This is a safe space for pregnant people or people who have been pregnant to discuss how they believe the 8th has affected them and as a mod I won't tolerate them being made to feel like their experiences are not valid ones.

    Post like this again and I will ban you from this forum.


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    #49
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    I've not missed the point at all.

    My.point us that there are several.really sad stories being told here. And my heart goes out to those people.
    But I'm not really sure that what happened to them is due to the scandal.which is the 8th amendment.

    It might be due to another scandal called the.miscarriage mis diagnosis scandal. Or else a third scandal called the lack of funding by the HSE scandal.


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    #50
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Wesser wrote: »
    Or else a third scandal called the lack of funding by the HSE scandal.
    The cost of providing proper diagnostic scanning facilities is a drop in the ocean compared to how much money is wasted on middle management paper pushing in the HSE.


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    #51
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    January wrote: »
    You've missed the point completely.

    No, I don't think I that they have.


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    #52
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    The cost of providing proper diagnostic scanning facilities is a drop in the ocean compared to how much money is wasted on middle management paper pushing in the HSE.

    Exactly, can you explain how diagnostic scanning is affected by the 8th amendment?


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    #53
    tea_and_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭tea_and_cake


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Exactly, can you explain how diagnostic scanning is affected by the 8th amendment?
    Read back on some posts and you'll realise how. I asked that exact question because I was naive about how it worked but as Neyite pointed out it does affect it.


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    #54
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Exactly, can you explain how diagnostic scanning is affected by the 8th amendment?

    It's very affected by the 8th amendment, a lot of women in Ireland are not even given an anamoly scan because (and they've been told this) 'there's no point, sure you can't do anything if there is a problem'

    That is a direct effect of the 8th.


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    #55
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    January wrote: »
    It's very affected by the 8th amendment, a lot of women in Ireland are not even given an anamoly scan because (and they've been told this) 'there's no point, sure you can't do anything if there is a problem'

    That is a direct effect of the 8th.

    Then why give anyone an anomaly scan, if they are pointless in Ireland? I would say the lack of anomaly scan goes back to resources.


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    #56
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Detecting anomalies at an appropriate stage allows plans to be put in place for the birth so that rapid interventions can be made if necessary - for example if a baby needs immediate surgery on a heart defect, needs dialysis as a result of a kidney problem, may need to be ventilated etc. If these issues are only detected at birth and it takes some time to fully diagnose them then the baby's health is being put at risk unnecessarily, they may also not be stable enough to survive transfer to an appropriate facility.


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    #57
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Detecting anomalies at an appropriate stage allows plans to be put in place for the birth so that rapid interventions can be made if necessary - for example if a baby needs immediate surgery on a heart defect, needs dialysis as a result of a kidney problem, may need to be ventilated etc. If these issues are only detected at birth and it takes some time to fully diagnose them then the baby's health is being put at risk unnecessarily, they may also not be stable enough to survive transfer to an appropriate facility.

    Exactly so @January stating that they are told not to bother because nothing can be done is disingenuous / bordering on a lie and total misrepresentation on how the 8th amendment interacts with pregnancy.


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    #58
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Then why give anyone an anomaly scan, if they are pointless in Ireland? I would say the lack of anomaly scan goes back to resources.

    Women have been told that it's because there is no point, some hospitals it is a lack of resources though. I told you already this is not a place for discussion around what resources are or are not lacking because of the 8th, it's about people who believe they have been affected by the 8th. If you want to discuss what maternity care is or isn't as a result of the 8th then go elsewhere, but it won't be tolerated here anymore.


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    #59
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    An anomaly scan is the very least that all hospitals should offer, despite the existence of the 8th amendment.


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    #60
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    January wrote: »
    Women have been told that it's because there is no point, some hospitals it is a lack of resources though. I told you already this is not a place for discussion around what resources are or are not lacking because of the 8th, it's about people who believe they have been affected by the 8th. If you want to discuss what maternity care is or isn't as a result of the 8th then go elsewhere, but it won't be tolerated here anymore.

    Is this not what the whole thread is about how the 8th amendment interacts with pregnancy? You have implied it' affects women's ability to get an anomaly scan and I've said it hasn't.


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    #61
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Is this not what the whole thread is about how the 8th amendment interacts with pregnancy? You have implied it' affects women's ability to get an anomaly scan and I've said it hasn't.

    And I'm a birth professional who has had many interactions with women who have been told that they cannot have an anomaly scan because 'there is no point'. I've had women tell me that they've been told they only do them in high risk pregnancies (how can a doctor tell that a pregnancy is high risk unless they do an anomaly scan!) and I've had women who have been told they don't need one only to go for a private one and be told their babies have fatal fetal abnormalities or non-fatal abnormalities (such as DS, HLHS, HRHS, Spina Bifida). Lack of resources is not the only reason anomaly scans are not performed.

    The OP asked how has the 8th affected your care, they did not ask 'how do you think the 8th affects maternity care'. There's a difference.


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