I am an atheist that has had nothing but a good experience with catholic schools

Hooks Golf Handicap

6 years ago we came to enroll our oldest, told them about the non-god thing from the get go & we had no issue.

Our 2nd started 2 years later & it's been the exact same experience.
The teachers allow our kids to get on with homework during religion class & that suits us fine as working parents, less to do at home.

Finally our youngest started this year & now there are 4 in his class not baptised & won't be taking communion.

Luckily we are a small town with a new school so they needed all the enrollments they could get to keep up teacher numbers.

The best thing has been the principal allowing us to take the kids out the week leading up their first communion where we go on a family holiday to Salou. As it's not high season flights & accommodation can be less than half the July cost & the temperatures are just perfect.

So a big shout out to jesus schools & the waste of a week before communion.
It's given us some of our best memories as a family.

TheChizler

Glad you've had such a good experience, unfortunately not everyone has had the same experience as you.

mikhail

This is how it should work in a mostly homogeneous region. Good people make allowances for difference. Sad it often goes otherwise.

branie2

That's great

recedite

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

The best thing has been the principal allowing us to take the kids out the week leading up their first communion where we go on a family holiday to Salou.

Thank god for small mercies :pac:
But lots of people in Ireland do that anyway, without asking, regardless of what patronage the school is. In the UK they make a much bigger deal about it, and one guy was taken to court over the issue last year.

Yes, its "frowned upon" but if you were to get into the legalities of it, I'm not sure the principal would have any more authority than the parents when it comes to your breaking the state's rules for school attendance.

GritBiscuit

recedite wrote: »

Yes, its "frowned upon" but if you were to get into the legalities of it, I'm not sure the principal would have any more authority than the parents when it comes to your breaking the state's rules for school attendance.

Article 42 of the Constitution would easily usurp any presumed authority on the part of a principal...parents are only obliged to ensure their offspring receive a minimum standard of education on this side of the water. Holiday at will OP - just make sure the days absent are still within the 20 day limit where schools report to the CFA. :cool:

recedite

GritBiscuit wrote: »

- just make sure the days absent are still within the 20 day limit where schools report to the CFA. :cool:

OK, I wasn't sure of the exact rule. Its a bit rich of the principal saying which particular week you can take though, that's my point.
Its like the foreman telling you when you can take your sick leave.

I get that the principal is basically saying "we are only teaching BS this week, so don't bother sending your kids in". So kinda doing the OP a favour by giving the heads up.
Still, take those holidays whenever it suits you, not when the school principal decides to opt out of education. That's my advice. Having said that, it probably is the perfect week; cheap holiday, and the kids not missing anything.

Vlove

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

6 years ago we came to enroll our oldest, told them about the non-god thing from the get go & we had no issue.

Our 2nd started 2 years later & it's been the exact same experience.
The teachers allow our kids to get on with homework during religion class & that suits us fine as working parents, less to do at home.

Finally our youngest started this year & now there are 4 in his class not baptised & won't be taking communion.

Luckily we are a small town with a new school so they needed all the enrollments they could get to keep up teacher numbers.

The best thing has been the principal allowing us to take the kids out the week leading up their first communion where we go on a family holiday to Salou. As it's not high season flights & accommodation can be less than half the July cost & the temperatures are just perfect.

So a big shout out to jesus schools & the waste of a week before communion.
It's given us some of our best memories as a family.

Wish I had that chance when I went to a catholic school, I wish we never had to do religion because it was pure ****e and bland in my opinon..

flaneur

The problem is this is totally dependent on the good will and understanding of one or two individuals. It’s not always the case that schools are very accommodating and, as you said, it’s a small rural school that needs the numbers.

My experience is that all it takes is one teacher or principal who feels it’s his or her moral duty to evangelize and you’ve a big problem. The experience that two family members have had was that where they’re another religion, that’s respected but non religious, Irish person with Irish name and so on to some teachers’ minds = lazy catholic who needs to be “brought back into the flock”.

Decades of allowing schools to blatantly ignore the constitution and no consequence for doing so has resulted in a very strange situation.

We need proper law to protect all kids and parents from religious discrimination in de facto public schools whether they’re non majority religion or no religion.

kerryjack

I have one down 3 more for this communion bull****e I cringe to sit there while I look at a grown man in a dress talk nonsense for an hour, OH wants to run with it as she said we would be ran out of town and condemned for ever, her family would be fairly religious so I supose I am going to have to sit there and look interested for the sake of peace.

robindch

kerryjack wrote: »

OH wants to run with it as she said we would be ran out of town and condemned for ever, her family would be fairly religious so I supose I am going to have to sit there and look interested for the sake of peace.

Ah, welcome to family politics - as you know well, toeing the line sets a precedent for compliant behavior which can be hard to break further on. While not toeing it can seem to break a truce implicitly signed the day that this wasn't discussed and agreed previously.

Can't speak for you, but for myself, I decided long ago that the upside of my integrity and my kid's integrity + innocence were more important than the downside of the indignant offence and anger offered by one senior individual in my extended family.

Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Snotty

This thread is like congratuling the junkie who mugged you for not sticking a needle in you before they leave.

Most parents of non Christians are put through so much hassle that they just allow their child to confirm with whatever religion is pushed on them, and I really don't blame them for taking the easy route, kids will make their own mind up eventually.

robindch

Snotty wrote: »

[...] kids will make their own mind up eventually.

Many don't - again, choosing the easy way out; or possibly, having been got-to early enough, never learn how to see past the carefully-constructed skein of religious fantasy.

smacl

robindch wrote: »

Many don't - again, choosing the easy way out; or possibly, having been got-to early enough, never learn how to see past the carefully-constructed skein of religious fantasy.

That does seem to be on reason why religions are so keen to attach themselves to primary education, 'Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man' and all that.

Frank Bullitt

I'd be the same as the OP, went to a CB school and it was fine, despite the "religion" class part, which was just Catholic propaganda. I did, however, have one teacher for 2 years who was nothing but a grade A prick. He was very fire and brimstone and was only a hairs breath short of wanting to his us for not doing homework or something similar. He also loved the crap with the local church, I remember one of my classmates who was an alter boy who decided to stop doing that so he could play football instead. The mother was called in to discuss it as well, our parents were in the same circle.

I probably wouldn't have had the same experience of a CB school though if it had been the 60's or 70's mind you.

seamus

robindch wrote: »

Many don't - again, choosing the easy way out; or possibly, having been got-to early enough, never learn how to see past the carefully-constructed skein of religious fantasy.

Indeed, one only has to see the effect of upbringing on a person's opinions in general - not just religion - to know that most people don't really swing very far from the things that they are taught as fact when they're young.

As much as the OP has had a good experience, one only has to look at how bizarre the "allowance" is to realise that the school is being praised for not being assholes.

You are permitted to take your child out of school on a holiday so as to not attend a religious class. That is, attend religious instruction or don't attend at all. That's not "generous" of the school, it's crazy.

It becomes crazier when you find out that the basis of this "generosity" is the fact that the school refuses to educate children who do not want to attend religious instruction. The rules for most religious schools are that parents who opt-out of religion must provide alternative arrangements for their children - because the school will not. The schools literally refuse to educate the children.

What's worse is that this comes with conditions. Parents are allowed to supervise the children in the school, but the children are not permitted to engage in any curricular work within the school walls while the other children are receiving their indoctrination. My nephew's school has agreed that the pagan children can all gather in a single classroom while the rest are off doing their communion prep-work, but whatever the parents decide to do with those children, must not be on the school curriculum.

Think about how crazy that is - children, in a school, during the school day, are not permitted to learn the national curriculum simply because they're not Catholic.

Schools aren't being "nice" to non-Catholic children. They're doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to accommodate non-Catholics, without making it look like a better option that other parents or children might choose to do.

My sister-in-law is considering arranging a computer science/computer studies course in the case of my nephew. She's hoping that not only will those kids learn some valuable skills, but they won't feel like the communion kids are doing something that's more fun.

recedite

seamus wrote: »

Think about how crazy that is - children, in a school, during the school day, are not permitted to learn the national curriculum simply because they're not Catholic.

Its a special kind of crazy alright. Teachers being paid by the state to prevent kids educating themselves while on the school premises.
Just in case the pagan kids might gain an "unfair" educational advantage relative to their religious peers, who are kept busy being religiously indoctrinated by the school.

Hotblack Desiato

Can we stop calling non-christians pagans? Thanks.

seamus

That was tongue-in-cheek on my part

Odhinn

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

6 years ago we came to enroll our oldest, told them about the non-god thing from the get go & we had no issue.

Our 2nd started 2 years later & it's been the exact same experience.
The teachers allow our kids to get on with homework during religion class & that suits us fine as working parents, less to do at home.

Finally our youngest started this year & now there are 4 in his class not baptised & won't be taking communion.

Luckily we are a small town with a new school so they needed all the enrollments they could get to keep up teacher numbers.

The best thing has been the principal allowing us to take the kids out the week leading up their first communion where we go on a family holiday to Salou. As it's not high season flights & accommodation can be less than half the July cost & the temperatures are just perfect.

So a big shout out to jesus schools & the waste of a week before communion.
It's given us some of our best memories as a family.

There is absolutely no consistency between schools on the matter, so while your experience is a good one, it says little about anywhere else. And there's no guarantee that a change in staff/management might reverse the situation.

Roger Hassenforder

smacl wrote: »

That does seem to be on reason why religions are so keen to attach themselves to primary education, 'Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man' and all that.

It'll take about 5mins to knock that nonsense out of them though.
Sent my kids to the local Catholic school rather than an Educate Together. at 9, one seems to have already copped the gig.

smacl

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It'll take about 5mins to knock that nonsense out of them though.
Sent my kids to the local Catholic school rather than an Educate Together. at 9, one seems to have already copped the gig.

Probably also due to the fact that a large number of the teachers have to lie about their religion to get into the school too. I think the number of genuine hardliners is rapidly dwindling. Hopefully it will be a nonsense that is long gone when our kids are sending their's to school. Anyhoo, for a few smiles on the subject some FA&H;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Ou3lAGl-M

branie2

Sure, ye can go to Mass on Saturday as well!

Hotblack Desiato

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It'll take about 5mins to knock that nonsense out of them though.
Sent my kids to the local Catholic school rather than an Educate Together. at 9, one seems to have already copped the gig.

Did you opt them out of religion? What did you do during communion year? Any particular reason you didn't want to send them to the ET?

Odhinn

branie2 wrote: »

Sure, ye can go to Mass on Saturday as well!

If it's good enough for the Jews....

Galbin

Why not send kids to a non-denominational school if it's that important? I really don't understand why people complain about Catholic rituals in a Catholic school. I wouldn't be uber offended if I sent my kid to a Jewish school and they expected him to read the Torah etc.

Roger Hassenforder

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Did you opt them out of religion? What did you do during communion year? Any particular reason you didn't want to send them to the ET?

nope! they made their communions with the rest of their class. Some kids opted out all right, which I thought was a bit peculiar, as its a Catholic school.
I dont feel hypocritical as I'm not Catholic, but their mother is (but non church going!)

My reason is probably going to come across as very "racist/bigoted", but the local Educate Together seems to have a lot of non Irish national kids, seem to be a lot of parents whose certain very obvious values I wouldn't necessarily like my children being exposed to, or see their education suffering because a teacher is spending a lot of time explaining stuff to children who dont speak English.
I'd prefer if it was non-denom, but i'll take my chances with the Catholic education for a while, its a good school and my girls are happy, which to me is the important thing. as i said, the oldest has already copped the gig without any effort from me.

TheChizler

Galbin wrote: »

Why not send kids to a non-denominational school if it's that important? I really don't understand why people complain about Catholic rituals in a Catholic school. I wouldn't be uber offended if I sent my kid to a Jewish school and they expected him to read the Torah etc.

Exactly how many non-denomination schools are in the country?

Roger Hassenforder

TheChizler wrote: »

Exactly how many non-denomination schools are in the country?

I think a lot of Atheists are choosing Catholic schools. I did, as I perceived a bit the standard of education was higher than the local educate together. Obviously I've no issue sacrificing my principles where my kids are concerned!

looksee

Choosing Catholic schools is fine if there is actually a choice.

Galbin

TheChizler wrote: »

Exactly how many non-denomination schools are in the country?

No idea. I don't know a town in my area without one though. Personally I would find a non-denominational school if there were only Jewish/Islam etc. schools in my area. Or, if I sent them to say a Jewish school I would see it as inevitable that the school would have a Jewish ethos and Jewish rites.