Do you think Euthanasia will ever be legal in Ireland?

NIMAN

I heard a report today saying that our already crumbling health service is going to have another third of a workload placed on it by 2030 due to people living longer and an aging population.

It doesn't bode well.

Got to thinking about how many people are a strain on the system when they are barely living or have major health issues, and many might decide to take the assisted suicide route if it was available.

I know it can sound cruel, but is it a viable future option for us as a nation? We have been progressive in so many other issues, why not euthanasia?

freshpopcorn

It's hard to know to be honest but I know people who want to keep he 8th amendment but they'd support Euthanasia being allowed.
However selling it as a way take strain off the health system wouldn't want to mentioned.
The other issue you'd encounter would be stories from other countries about people choosing euthanasia because the cat died.

NIMAN

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's hard to know to be honest but I know people who want to keep he 8th amendment but they'd support Euthanasia being allowed.
However selling it as a way take strain off the health system wouldn't want to mentioned.
The other issue you'd encounter would be stories from other countries about people choosing euthanasia because the cat died.

Well obviously there would be rules. That's must madness. You'd have to have some sort of terminal disease or else alzheimers or something.

buried

Good luck trying to find any politician who is looking forward to living off 10 or 12 pensions legislating for that sort of program

harry Bailey esq

Over my dead body :mad:

branie2

I doubt it

Jimbob1977

We need a system like Logan's Run

Our life clock will extinguish at age 30.

The crystal in our palm will turn black.

Then we need to renew in Carousel

Hitman3000

NIMAN wrote:

Well obviously there would be rules. That's must madness. You'd have to have some sort of terminal disease or else alzheimers or something.

So you think someone with Alzheimer's would be in a fully cognitive state to want to end their days? Sure why stop there what about those in a coma?

Johngoose

Bertie Aherne advocated suicide. So maybe if he gets back in power. Don't see Sinn Fein having an issue with it either.

mickoneill31

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So you think someone with Alzheimer's would be in a fully cognitive state to want to end their days? Sure why stop there what about those in a coma?

You know you don't just wake up one day with full blown alzheimer's.

branie2

It's legal in Switzerland

SEPT 23 1989

When the pain at the end becomes too much

I want the power to say enough is enough

Gwynplaine

Waiting on Ali G quote.

eviltwin

I would be in favour of assisted suicide. Euthanasia conjures up images of people being bumped off because it's the wish of someone else.

Hector Bellend

nice bit of an aul euthanasia

Hitman3000

Johngoose wrote:

Bertie Aherne advocated suicide. So maybe if he gets back in power. Don't see Sinn Fein having an issue with it either.

No fan of Bertie but that's not true. The youtube clip is still out there.

RobbingBandit

Nope too many brain washed crazies who can't accept some people just want to die rather than suffer through endless fruitless torture. People or their loved ones should have a right to chose how it ends for them same as a woman should have the right to choose but not here unfortunately.

I've got a lot of medical issues myself the past few years thankfully none of them terminal if they were I'd like to have the opportunity whilst still able to end things on my own terms and I'm sure many others would think the same in the same boat.

NIMAN

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Nope too many brain washed crazies who can't accept some people just want to die rather than suffer through endless fruitless torture. People or their loved ones should have a right to chose how it ends for them same as a woman should have the right to choose but not here unfortunately.

I've got a lot of medical issues myself the past few years thankfully none of them terminal if they were I'd like to have the opportunity whilst still able to end things on my own terms and I'm sure many others would think the same in the same boat.

This is the scenario I envisage it being involved in, if it was ever to happen.

Not the silly options so many people argue against.

lazybones32

The Belgians have gone loop-the-loop with euthanasia: kids can seek it, mentally-ill people (depression), people with non-terminal diseases or illnesses get it. They killed about 4,000 people in 14/15 and the British Medical Journal found that proper procedure was not always followed - nurses reported that certain doctors skipped certain important bits, like getting the consent of the patient (that was either Holland or Belgium or both). Google it instead of aksing me for links.

Sephiroth_dude

No chance!

gctest50

lazybones32 wrote: »

The Belgians have gone loop-the-loop with euthanasia: kids can seek it, mentally-ill people (depression), people with non-terminal diseases or illnesses get it. They killed about 4,000 people in 14/15 and the British Medical Journal found that proper procedure was not always followed - nurses reported that certain doctors skipped certain important bits, like getting the consent of the patient (that was either Holland or Belgium or both). Google it instead of aksing me for links.

lazybones32 wrote: »

kids can seek it.

That's misleading - it's for terminally ill kids

The Belgian law has very strict rules for the euthanasia to be approved. It requires the minor to be in the final stages of a terminal illness, to understand the difference between life and death rationally and to have asked to end his or her life on repeated occasions. It also requires parental consent and finally the approval of two doctors, including a psychiatrist.

Firblog

I'd hope that it will be made legal; I see no point in exhausting huge resources trying to keep people alive in poor health for years. I believe that if someone wishes to die in a dignified manner, either to escape pain, or living in a way that is abhorrent to them, they should have the right.

Perhaps if people could register that wish, say in a will that is updated / reaffirmed yearly - for 3 or more years, then it should be recognised and facilitated.

NIMAN

I see a parallel with this and the 8th amendment.

We are being told it is a woman's right to do whatever she wants with her body, and apparently a large section of the population agree with this.

So why isn't it my decision if I have a terminal, painful illness to let me decide what to do with my own body?

EPAndlee

I personally wouldn't want to die in absolute agony in hospital. I'd like the choice of death and just end the pain or foreseeable pain a terminal disease could cause

RobbingBandit

That's pretty much a Do Not Resuscitate order, it's a tricky subject is possible to set one up but not an open topic in most cases.

NIMAN

RobbingBandit wrote: »

That's pretty much a Do Not Resuscitate order, it's a tricky subject is possible to set one up but not an open topic in most cases.

But a DNR order means you have to get to the point where you are near death and have passed out, and could possibly have suffered a long period of terrible pain up to then.

The option should be there to stop the pain as soon as you want to.

MonkieSocks

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No fan of Bertie but that's not true. The youtube clip is still out there.

This one?

corner of hells

RobbingBandit wrote: »

That's pretty much a Do Not Resuscitate order, it's a tricky subject is possible to set one up but not an open topic in most cases.

I think at the moment we have an informal "do not resuscitate " at the moment.
I remember with my own father in his final years he was effectively a vegetable with dementia we made an agreement with the nursing home manager and his GP that he was not to be resuscitated. Everyone had to be in agreement.

I do also remember another resident's family insisting she was to be resuscitated despite the fact she was in her ninties and at latter stages of dementia.

NIMAN

corner of hells wrote: »

I think at the moment we have an informal "do not resuscitate " at the moment.
I remember with my own father in his final years he was effectively a vegetable with dementia we made an agreement with the nursing home manager and his GP that he was not to be resuscitated. Everyone had to be in agreement.

I do also remember another resident's family insisting she was to be resuscitated despite the fact she was in her ninties and at latter stages of dementia.

sorry to hear this, but its a great example.

Why on Earth would the authorities want to resus such a person? for what purpose? We are all going to die, would there have been any point resus'ing your Dad to have him live another few hours or days in that state, especially when he was so close to the end anyway?

NegativeCreep

Well it’s looking likely that soon it’ll be legal to terminate a baby that has no say in the matter* so I don’t think it’s any worse to have a consenting adult choose to end their own life on their own terms. I would like to have that option when the time comes myself.

*I’m not saying I don’t agree with abortion but their comparable situations.

Hannibal_Smith

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So you think someone with Alzheimer's would be in a fully cognitive state to want to end their days? Sure why stop there what about those in a coma?

I watched a programme on it before. I think Terry Pratchet was the 'investigator '. The show was based in a euthanasia centre, or whatever it was called, in Switzerland. So they covered a few stories. One was a suicidal guy, another was an elderly man. He had the onset of alzheimers or something similar and the other was something like motor neuron disease.

Basically the way it worked was, every one went through a psychological screening process, to make sure it was absolutely what you wanted, you were of sound mind and able to make the decision for yourself and to establish whether (particularly with the suicidal guy) therapy my might be of benefit. After that, you move to the next stage. It has to be done when you are physically able to take the drink. No one can present the glass to you, you have to be able to lift it up and drink it. Otherwise it is murder. So if you want to do it because of alzheimers it has to be before the disease takes hold, so that you are of sound mind and before you are affected physically so you can lift the drink. This means you are effectively doing it in the full of your health and at the early stages of your disease.

You can have a loved one in the room. They give you the drink and a sweet, because apparently it tastes awful. They showed the elderly man taking the sweet, then taking the drink. They warned he would try and reach for water and asked the wife to help distract him because it would dilute the concoction and it wouldn't work. They told her not to cry, but to stay supportive for him. He took the drink, she played her part, he fell asleep and then died. She was allowed cry then.

So there are rules and regulations in other countries, it is done quite sensitively and to me it makes a lot of sense.

I would hope it would be brought in and follow the stipulations set out in other countries.

CaSCaDe711

It will never be legal in Ireland.

Why?

Because we continue to be backward regarding all things judicial.

Our system is an absolute joke, an embarrassing joke, and has been for a very long time. Year after year we appear to be totally useless when it comes to thinking sensibly regarding victims of crime, penalties the perpetrators receive etc.

Regarding someone calling it a day legally on their own terms? No matter how much pain the individual may be in physically/mentally etc, it will always be forbidden in Ireland. Thanks to the church, and the older generation that will live in the past until they "call it a day"

gctest50

NIMAN wrote: »

sorry to hear this, but its a great example.

Why on Earth would the authorities want to resus such a person? for what purpose? We are all going to die, would there have been any point resus'ing your Dad to have him live another few hours or days in that state, especially when he was so close to the end anyway?

One reason in some cases is every extra week they spend in a nursing home is an extra few grand

It is also low risk

-they probably won't be wandering off

- wrong medication and they die ? oh they slipped away in the small hours etc

.

Hannibal_Smith

CaSCaDe711 wrote: »

It will never be legal in Ireland.

Why?

Because we continue to be backward regarding all things judicial.

Our system is an absolute joke, an embarrassing joke, and has been for a very long time. Year after year we appear to be totally useless when it comes to thinking sensibly regarding victims of crime, penalties the perpetrators receive etc.

Regarding someone calling it a day legally on their own terms? No matter how much pain the individual may be in physically/mentally etc, it will always be forbidden in Ireland. Thanks to the church, and the older generation that will live in the past until they "call it a day"

But the older generation will die and the younger people will have their progressive choices.

kerryjack

Count me in a tablet and a lap dance in any order you want doc

corner of hells

NIMAN wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

I think at the moment we have an informal "do not resuscitate " at the moment.
I remember with my own father in his final years he was effectively a vegetable with dementia we made an agreement with the nursing home manager and his GP that he was not to be resuscitated. Everyone had to be in agreement.

I do also remember another resident's family insisting she was to be resuscitated despite the fact she was in her ninties and at latter stages of dementia.

sorry to hear this, but its a great example.

Why on Earth would the authorities want to resus such a person? for what purpose? We are all going to die, would there have been any point resus'ing your Dad to have him live another few hours or days in that state, especially when he was so close to the end anyway?

And without being cold or callous after spending the best part of thirteen or so years suffering it was peace for him and us in the end.
The sense and enormity of the relief was and is now difficult to describe.

I do very clearly remember the conversation with his nursing home manager around the issue of resuscitation and gentle she was.
In my innocence I actually thought they were obliged to try resusitate but when she explained the option it just a good moment.

Hannibal_Smith

Apparently, that medical staff can quicken a death? A friend of mine told me that when her dad was in the final stages of cancer and about to go any minute the nurses in the hospice moved him in such a way to quicken the process? I don't know how accurate that is, but along with the DNR, if it is true it would seem there are forms of euthanasia here already.

server down

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Apparently, that medical staff can quicken a death? A friend of mine told me that when her dad was in the final stages of cancer and about to go any minute the nurses in the hospice moved him in such a way to quicken the process? I don't know how accurate that is, but along with the DNR, if it is true it would seem there are forms of euthanasia here already.

There are definite morphine overdoses.

Not really the same though. People should be allowed to euthenaise years before they are destined to die, if they choose to.

I don’t think we should alllow assisted suicide though, as in some kind of terminal Illness should be required.

corner of hells

gctest50 wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

sorry to hear this, but its a great example.

Why on Earth would the authorities want to resus such a person? for what purpose? We are all going to die, would there have been any point resus'ing your Dad to have him live another few hours or days in that state, especially when he was so close to the end anyway?

One reason in some cases is every extra week they spend in a nursing home is an extra few grand

It is also low risk

-they probably won't be wandering off

- wrong medication and they die ? oh they slipped away in the small hours etc

.

Maybe I'm picking you up wrong but as far as I know a significant amount of residents contribute to there keep in some way in nursing homes whether privately , fair deal or subvention.
In regard to the "wrong medication" comment and a resident dying ,that's astonishing , your hardly suggesting there's some form of collusion to and residents lives ?

Ulysses Gaze

MonkieSocks wrote: »

This one?

The only thing that motivates that ****er is to feather his own nest.

corner of hells

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Apparently, that medical staff can quicken a death? A friend of mine told me that when her dad was in the final stages of cancer and about to go any minute the nurses in the hospice moved him in such a way to quicken the process? I don't know how accurate that is, but along with the DNR, if it is true it would seem there are forms of euthanasia here already.

I think that's to make the end comfortable rather than hasten it.

mickoneill31

mickoneill31 wrote: »

You know you don't just wake up one day with full blown alzheimer's.

I have a shaking disorder which according to western medicine dramatically increases my chance of getting Alzheimer's as I get older. There's also been a number of my relations who have tried living through it, and it's a horrible disease. I'll kill myself first sign that it's becoming serious. Made that decision a long time ago... but there is a real strong fear that the Alzheimers progresses faster than expected once it begins, because there are different rates of progression, and modern medicine doesn't really understand how that happens, or why. When is the right time to step in and end it? Will I just misjudge and find myself wandering around thinking I'm 11 years old again, confused, and flipping back and forth between time periods.

Horrible. Just horrible. I can deal with the threat of most other diseases and be believing I can get by them, dealing with the pain and treatments... but Alzheimer's? it scares the **** out of me.

Euthanasia should be an option for those of an age to decide. They've lived their lives and were old enough to do everything else that life threw at them, why not give them the chance to decide their own death or the death of a loved one with little to no chance of cure?

We say that people 18 or over can vote. We have limits on driving, drinking and other parts of life. Let people over 60 decide if they want to use Euthanasia. It's kinder, all things considered.

NIMAN

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Apparently, that medical staff can quicken a death? A friend of mine told me that when her dad was in the final stages of cancer and about to go any minute the nurses in the hospice moved him in such a way to quicken the process? I don't know how accurate that is, but along with the DNR, if it is true it would seem there are forms of euthanasia here already.

... the morphine driver you often hear mentioned, many say its to bring death on.

gctest50

corner of hells wrote: »

Maybe I'm picking you up wrong but as far as I know a significant amount of residents contribute to there keep in some way in nursing homes whether privately , fair deal or subvention.
In regard to the "wrong medication" comment and a resident dying ,that's astonishing , your hardly suggesting there's some form of collusion to and residents lives ?

I meant it's just a low risk way of making a lot of money


"Wrong medication" was just an example - if they die prematurely - well, they were terminally ill and near death anyway

GritBiscuit

RobbingBandit wrote: »

That's pretty much a Do Not Resuscitate order, it's a tricky subject is possible to set one up but not an open topic in most cases.

It's not really - DNR is a request not to treat - a lack of action by any third party, if you will, which allows an already dying patient to die. Euthanasia is a deliberate and premature ending of valid life - a positive action. Medically and legally they are completely different beasts.

I would hope well regulated euthanasia is available one day in Ireland. There is a growing trend towards having the right to a quality of death on one's own terms and away from life at all cost - irrespective of suffering or lack of quality of life. That's a good thing in my book but I can only imagine how long it will take to become a legitimate legal option on these shores...given the carpet sweeping trend on medical issues in that historically ethically grey area.

lazybones32

gctest50 wrote: »

That's misleading - it's for terminally ill kids.]

Pic is hilarious!😅
Kids can seek it. Or can they not?

Lone Stone

you cant even get an abortion so i doubt euthanasia will be a thing in my life time

server down

Lone Stone wrote: »

you cant even get an abortion so i doubt euthanasia will be a thing in my life time

euthanasia would be less controversial I think.

lazybones32

corner of hells wrote: »

In regard to the "wrong medication" comment and a resident dying ,that's astonishing , your hardly suggesting there's some form of collusion to and residents lives ?

In Jan this year, a female doctor was found to have acted "in good faith" after sedating a patient (slipped it in her coffee) and got family members to hold her down as she was euthanized - against her will.
The patient had expressed a desire for euthanasia but only "when i feel the time is right for me" but in the days prior to her death, she had indicated a clear desire to continue living. The doctor decided and the patients resistance was futile.

Collusion, you ask? Lol.

server down

lazybones32 wrote: »

In Jan this year, a female doctor was found to have acted "in good faith" after sedating a patient (slipped it in her coffee) and got family members to hold her down as she was euthanized - against her will.
The patient had expressed a desire for euthanasia but only "when i feel the time is right for me" but in the days prior to her death, she had indicated a clear desire to continue living. The doctor decided and the patients resistance was futile.

Collusion, you ask? Lol.

You got a link for that?

gctest50

lazybones32 wrote: »

Pic is hilarious!😅

Kids can seek it. Or can they not?

.

The Belgian law has very strict rules for the euthanasia to be approved. It requires the minor to be in the final stages of a terminal illness, to understand the difference between life and death rationally and to have asked to end his or her life on repeated occasions. It also requires parental consent and finally the approval of two doctors, including a psychiatrist.