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New Airbnb rules

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13

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Landlords are also able to deduct anything that is an expense in accounting terms, like any business.

    They can't deduct a fraction of what other businesses can!


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    #63
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    Pete67 wrote: »
    Perhaps it would be fairer and also encourage more people to consider providing private rental accomodation if the profit from the enterprise was taxed at the marginal rate, in other words if the cost of financing the rental property was tax deductible. I can't understand why this is not the case for private landlords as it is for most other businesses? Or am I not understanding the situation correctly? I'm not and never will be a landlord, I can't see why anyone would even consider it, unless forced by circumstances.

    80% of mortgage interest is currently tax deductible. It's 100% if you rent to HAP/RAS tenants for at least 3 years.


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    #64
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    What?! Do you live under a rock?! Bernie Sanders is the new left in America just as Jeremy Corbyn is in the UK. The left and right are very well established in the US and to suggest the democrats are actually center right is laughable

    Bernie Sanders isn't even a member of the Democratic Party.


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    #65
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,877 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Murphy suggesting these are interim guidelines https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2017-10-26a.396#g402


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    #66
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Murphy suggesting these are interim guidelines https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2017-10-26a.396#g402

    I notice the emphasis on any future licensing being for genuine home-sharing


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    #67
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    circular flexing wrote:
    Bernie Sanders isn't even a member of the Democratic Party.


    Anymore...


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    #68
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Arjun Fit Stewardess wrote: »
    They can't deduct a fraction of what other businesses can!

    Do tell...


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    #69
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note please take the politics to the appropriate forum.


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    #70
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    listermint wrote: »
    Your not a business. Your an amateur trying to float the law and making money doing so.

    If you want to operate like a business then do so.


    Socialist. Lol get real

    The law wasn't being flouted. The law is being changed to stymie the use or AirBnB which in it's own right is a healthy business model both for operators and consumers.

    As always the problem is down to a lack of supply of housing, which should really be in a position to fulfill the needs of purchasers, renters and AirBnB operators.


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    #71
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    The law wasn't being flouted. The law is being changed to stymie the use or AirBnB which in it's own right is a healthy business model both for operators and consumers.

    As always the problem is down to a lack of supply of housing, which should really be in a position to fulfill the needs of purchasers, renters and AirBnB operators.

    Regardless of the supply position, domestic residential and holiday accommodation gerally don’t mix well in the same development.

    Planning law has been widely flouted, the fact it makes a profitable business model doesn’t change that.


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    #72
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Arjun Fit Stewardess wrote: »
    They can't deduct a fraction of what other businesses can!

    Such as? In answering, remember to differentiate between an expense and a liability.


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    #73
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    The law wasn't being flouted. The law is being changed to stymie the use or AirBnB which in it's own right is a healthy business model both for operators and consumers.

    As always the problem is down to a lack of supply of housing, which should really be in a position to fulfill the needs of purchasers, renters and AirBnB operators.

    The planning laws were being flouted en masse. So there ya go horse xxx


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    #74
    TiNcAn
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭TiNcAn


    Ignoring the impact that such a change will have on short-term lettings and all stakeholder in it, will this not have an overall positive effect for those looking to buy a house and renting? 

    Since the short-term letting situation is no longer financially viable, a lot of operators (short-term landlords) will then either sell the house, rent the house, or live in the house. This should then have the knock effect of increasing the housing/rent supply, albeit only for a short-term basis?

    I would like to know other peoples opinions on this.


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    #75
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    TiNcAn wrote: »
    Ignoring the impact that such a change will have on short-term lettings and all stakeholder in it, will this not have an overall positive effect for those looking to buy a house and renting? 

    I can’t think of any quicker way of adding several thousand properties back to the residential market at zero cost to the state.


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    #76
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Graham wrote: »
    I can’t think of any quicker way of adding several thousand properties back to the residential market at zero cost to the state.

    Well if you want to be pedantic about it, if a guy was making double the rent on an Air BnB basis there would be a hit to tax take...


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    #77
    __..__
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭__..__


    Graham wrote: »
    I can’t think of any quicker way of adding several thousand properties back to the residential market at zero cost to the state.


    I got a couple of bites from companies.
    I was going to do Airbnb just to have variety, with this one when the current tenant leaves soon, but i out the feelers out yesterday about letting to companies and already got interest.
    So I'll see what interest there is over the next few weeks and decide then. I really wanted to do Airbnb to see how it went but I won't now.

    I was chatting with a friend who is doing Airbnb with 2 apartments and he doesn't care, he's going going to keep doing it. He said even if this gets enforced he would rather do Airbnb for a couple of months and leave it empty the rest of the time than take the risk of a full tenancy. Sign of the times I suppose.


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    #78
    lovehathi
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭lovehathi


    So we can say most of these airbnb would be mainly in city centre. I did notice in past the house which were 15 -20 min drive were less attractive. Now with these new rules if the supply of apartments on air bnb falls, houses on 15-20min drive which be more open. So i think supply may still be same , its just shifting the demand area!


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    #79
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    lovehathi wrote: »
    So we can say most of these airbnb would be mainly in city centre. I did notice in past the house which were 15 -20 min drive were less attractive. Now with these new rules if the supply of apartments on air bnb falls, houses on 15-20min drive which be more open. So i think supply may still be same , its just shifting the demand area!
    The same rules would apply regardless of where the property is located.


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    #80
    olkon
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭olkon


    Does that high tax rate apply if I was to rent out a spare room?

    Doesn't seem worth the hassle if it's 50% tax!


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    #81
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    olkon wrote: »
    Does that high tax rate apply if I was to rent out a spare room?

    Doesn't seem worth the hassle if it's 50% tax!

    If you rent out the spare room of the house that you occupy as your principal residence, then that qualifies for the rent a room scheme, where you don't pay any tax up to 14000 euro per year.


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    #82
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,821 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    The law wasn't being flouted. The law is being changed to stymie the use or AirBnB which in it's own right is a healthy business model both for operators and consumers.

    As always the problem is down to a lack of supply of housing, which should really be in a position to fulfill the needs of purchasers, renters and AirBnB operators.

    Yea, and the AirBnB crowd are part of that problem.

    When it comes to a shortage of housing those ignoring planning regulations and using what should be residential properties for short-term lettings to tourists are as much a part of the problem as the government for not building properties.

    Thankfully the AirBnB problem is really easily fixed and these new rules are a step toward that.


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    #83
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Graham wrote: »
    TiNcAn wrote: »
    Ignoring the impact that such a change will have on short-term lettings and all stakeholder in it, will this not have an overall positive effect for those looking to buy a house and renting? 

    I can’t think of any quicker way of adding several thousand properties back to the residential market at zero cost to the state.
    Has anyone actually shown that residential prices are rising faster than hotel accommodation pricesp, because if they are not the argument fails. The notion that residents should come before holiday makers is abhorrently nativist.


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    #84
    VonBeanie
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭VonBeanie


    robp wrote: »
    Has anyone actually shown that residential prices are rising faster than hotel accommodation pricesp, because if they are not the argument fails. The notion that residents should come before holiday makers is abhorrently nativist.

    The difference is, holiday makers don't vote.

    Politicians don't bang on about hotel price inflation because of that fact. Don't try to bring logic into it. :)


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    #85
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    robp wrote: »
    Has anyone actually shown that residential prices are rising faster than hotel accommodation pricesp, because if they are not the argument fails. The notion that residents should come before holiday makers is abhorrently nativist.

    Nativist. Give over the population should come first in every country not tourists trying to make it out as us v them is childish to say the least.

    Nativist, I've heard it all.


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    #86
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    robp wrote: »
    The notion that residents should come before holiday makers is abhorrently nativist.
    VonBeanie wrote: »
    The difference is, holiday makers don't vote.

    Politicians don't bang on about hotel price inflation because of that fact. Don't try to bring logic into it. :)

    I don't see the slightest amount of logic in the statement.
    Nativism
    Noun
    US The policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.

    1) holidaymakers are not immigrants.
    2) returning several thousand residential properties back to the residential market may free up some of the tourist accommodation currently being used as temporary housing.


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    #87
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Graham wrote: »
    .
    2) returning several thousand residential properties back to the residential market may free up some of the tourist accommodation currently being used as temporary housing.

    Absolutely - there are entire hotels gone from the low end of the market due to being long term emergency accomodation. Some aren't even small.

    Add to that the rooms booked out in hotels that are still open - papers speculating the 8m last year was Dalata so Maldron and Clayton - and you've got a very substantial amount of potential tourist rooms used for emergency accomodation while tourists are using long term housing!


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    #88
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Graham wrote: »
    Planning law has been widely flouted, the fact it makes a profitable business model doesn’t change that.
    This. Personally can't wait for the endless hen / birthday / stag party trains of loud revelers to stop appearing to the apartment next door. Not to mention the post stay vacuum cleaner alarm clock.


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    #89
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,656 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Looks like Dublin City Council are now enforcing the new rules. I saw an enforcement notice stuck to the exterior of an apartment building earlier in Temple Bar. The landlord has been given 8 weeks to stop renting it out short term and it says if he does not DCC will hold him liable for their legal costs.


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    #90
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    This. Personally can't want for the endless hen / birthday / stag party trains of loud revelers to stop appearing to the apartment next door. Not to mention the post stay vacuum cleaner alarm clock.

    This is exactly my objection to the whole thing. Property owners not giving a fook about disruption to the lives of neighbours. They're having their fun and that's aaaaalllll that matters. Sounds like a head-wrecking situation for you.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Looks like Dublin City Council are now enforcing the new rules. I saw an enforcement notice stuck to the exterior of an apartment building earlier in Temple Bar. The landlord has been given 8 weeks to stop renting it out short term and it says if he does not DCC will hold him liable for their legal costs.

    Great to hear.


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    #91
    wordofwarning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭wordofwarning


    L1011 wrote: »

    Add to that the rooms booked out in hotels that are still open - papers speculating the 8m last year was Dalata so Maldron and Clayton - and you've got a very substantial amount of potential tourist rooms used for emergency accomodation while tourists are using long term housing!

    If you want to talk about hotel rooms, lets talk about hotel rooms. DCC is trying to block a brand new 365 room hotel off Middle Abbey St...

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/concerns-over-plans-for-nine-storey-budget-hotel-in-dublin-1.3273454

    Another 263 hotel room application was rejected last October...

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/hodson-bay-refused-permission-for-40m-dublin-hotel-1.2835973

    I don't see why you and most of these posters are just targeting evil and greedy landlords, when DCC is without a doubt the large individual distorting the property market in Dublin. Yet not a single individual here seems to care about DCC and planners blocking/attempting to block 600 new hotel rooms in the City. I guess as it does it fit the narrative of the only thing distorting the market is DCC...

    Banning Airbnb is a quick win. It pleases a lot of people who lack even the most basic understanding of economics. Do you really want to know what solves the shortage of housing in Dublin? Vast numbers of new quality hotel rooms in the hotel market. Most people living in a hotel, as a 'homeless individual' are living in the lowest of low quality accommodation(the fact that Dalata reported revenue of 290m for 2016 and their alleged earnings from homeless is 8m shows that...). No well travelled tourist wants to live in the horrible hotels that the homeless are living in

    I can't wait for Airbnb ban to be effective, as it won't be effective. In about 2/3 months people will realise that there is still a massive shortage of hotel rooms. Sure DCC and planners are not allowing it and no cares as they were fixated on Airbnb.

    People will realise that the vast numbers of property on Airbnb never shows up on daft and has no impact on prices. As a lot of property on insideairbnb.com is not active on Airbnb currently (someone who let their house out 2 summers ago for a week is on insideairbnb.com). People will finally realise the small number of property on Airbnb is not substantial enough to meet the excess demand in the city that can only be achieve by building new apartments.


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