BER

votecounts

Was looking at a detached house which was built circa 2005 but the BER was a D1, which I thought was very low. I thought it would have been a B rating. Its a lovely house apart from this. Has anyone bought similar?
Thanks in advance

Gumbo

B rating in 2005. Not a chance u less someone went way above and beyond during the build.

MicktheMan

The BER on a 2nd hand house is a meaningless piece of information when you consider the way the rating is generated.

tina1040

It's a complete joke and money racket. There are so many elements to it, that it gives no indication what is lacking.

Mantis Toboggan

MicktheMan wrote: »

The BER on a 2nd hand house is a meaningless piece of information when you consider the way the rating is generated.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

L1011

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Its guesswork based on guessing the efficiency of heating/lighting; insulative values etc. They don't actually perform testing for any of that.

A bad assessor can cause a result to go wrong in either direction at that.

rossmores

complete and utter waste of time got a place rated before an apartment it got a bad rating according to the tenant it the coziest place they have ever lived and require minimum heating different people are effected by temps as well maybe we all should be rated its just a money racket i make them up dont bother getting them anymore.
dont have to be told to insulate do it even before these stupid rules came aaaaahhhh

rossmores

complete and utter waste of time got a place rated before an apartment it got a bad rating according to the tenant it the coziest place they have ever lived and require minimum heating different people are effected by temps as well maybe we all should be rated its just a money racket i make them up dont bother getting them anymore.
dont have to be told to insulate do it even before these stupid rules came aaaaahhhh

The Ging and I

I totally agree its not a test, its more of a guess-timate.
A proper test would involve turning all the heating on for 24 hours and taking thermal images to see where its leaking out.

__..__

I used to own two apartments, bought from new right next door to each other. When the ber rules came in I got the first one done on the next change of tenant. Then 6 months later I got the other one done when changing that tenant.
The apartments are the mirror image of each other with the exact same furnishings.
One got a E rating and the other a C.
Make of that what you will.

Mantis Toboggan

L1011 wrote: »

Its guesswork based on guessing the efficiency of heating/lighting; insulative values etc. They don't actually perform testing for any of that.

A bad assessor can cause a result to go wrong in either direction at that.

Wow I would have presumed there was some tests which could have been performed to determine this as this can have a big effect on the price.

So these "A rated homes" are just someone's opinion then.

MicktheMan

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Yes, quite simply, too many assumptions are made based on property / extension(s) age. No quantitative testing required.

L1011

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Wow I would have presumed there was some tests which could have been performed to determine this as this can have a big effect on the price.

So these "A rated homes" are just someone's opinion then.

Higher ratings need further testing including air tightness. Think this even goes as low as a B, maybe just B1.

You can still have a high rated houses that is high rated due to how it looks on paper and has severe construction issues that make it cold and damp, such as cold bridging. Also, I believe that on a housing estate they can get some houses tested and not all of them - clearly you get the ones that you know were built best tested...

The difference between maybe two full notches below B - so B->D, C->E and so on - could be down to a bad assessor or extremely minor differences that have absolutely nowhere near that impact in real life.

I've got a re-test on Thursday after replacing a boiler (grant requirement) and I'm fairly certain that the existing cert is at least a full notch if not two too low due to being a work of fiction - the house it is describing isn't anything like the house its issued for! Lazy fecker didn't even stick a head in to the attic for starters.

matrim

tina1040 wrote: »

It's a complete joke and money racket. There are so many elements to it, that it gives no indication what is lacking.

Bought a house last year with a C2 rating. Have recently gotten the boiler upgraded and the new rating is a D2.

Gumbo

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Wow I would have presumed there was some tests which could have been performed to determine this as this can have a big effect on the price.

So these "A rated homes" are just someone's opinion then.

Most of the A rated homes are new builds. Therefore the full build up of the buildings are observed, certified and put on paper.

That means the A rating in a new build at least carries some merit.

L1011

kceire wrote: »

Therefore the full build up of the buildings are observed, certified and put on paper.

Allegedly. We see how useless the building control was in the boom for instance.

Gumbo

L1011 wrote: »

Allegedly. We see how useless the building control was in the boom for instance.

Building Control is irrelevant. This is a private sector contractor engaging a private sector BER assessor so if any corruption is or has taken place then its private sector corruption.

L1011

kceire wrote: »

Building Control is irrelevant. This is a private sector contractor engaging a private sector BER assessor so if any corruption is or has taken place then its private sector corruption.

A contractor engaging an engineer who signed off on stuff that wasn't checked was also private sector corruption!

Gumbo

L1011 wrote: »

A contractor engaging an engineer who signed off on stuff that wasn't checked was also private sector corruption!

Ohh I know. That’s my point.
Self certification here since 1990 and the implimentation of the Building Control Act.

robp

__..__ wrote: »

I used to own two apartments, bought from new right next door to each other.  When the ber rules came in I got the first one done on the next change of tenant.  Then 6 months later I got the other one done when changing that tenant.
The apartments are the mirror image of each other with the exact same furnishings.
One got a E rating and the other a C.
Make of that what you will.

I find it strange that there would be such a huge difference if they build together. The BER is only a guesstimate but its formulaic so there should be a clear reason for the difference.

L1011

robp wrote: »

I find it strange that there would be such a huge difference if they build together. The BER is only a guesstimate but its formulaic so there should be a clear reason for the difference.

Crap assessors. Bad input = bad output when something is formulaic.

The software is downloadable from the SEAI website but I don't know if you need logins to use it. If not, give it a go and see what horrors you can create by bad input - messing up imperial-metric area conversions would be a damn easy one.

Gumbo

You don’t need a log in to use it but you need an assessor Number to save the data against an address and to output a result/rating.

Some assessors will be better than others, even simply making mistakes with measurements can skew the result.

You also have to be able to work out the u-value of each element build up and insert it.

L1011

kceire wrote: »

You also have to be able to work out the u-value of each element build up and insert it.

Which is basically guesswork on an existing build and utterly reliant on it being done right/consistently.

The granularity is nuts considering how clearly flawed it is. "Good" "OK" "Bad" is about all it can give really.

Gumbo

L1011 wrote: »

Which is basically guesswork on an existing build and utterly reliant on it being done right/consistently.

The granularity is nuts considering how clearly flawed it is. "Good" "OK" "Bad" is about all it can give really.

Pretty much. Unless you have detailed drawings you are guessing based on the style of construction.

BER on existing stock should be added with an air tight test but this will drive up the costs associated with it.

__..__

robp wrote: »

I find it strange that there would be such a huge difference if they build together. The BER is only a guesstimate but its formulaic so there should be a clear reason for the difference.

Anyone who knows how this stuff works would expect it never mind find it strange.