Dun Laoghaire Ironman 70.3 2018

nok2008

I looked through those photos from one of the posts earlier and am surprised by the amount of people walking up those hill. I would have expected a better / higher range of fitness than that. None of those hills were over 15% gradient and the worst of them were over by half way into the cycle. Not a fantastic cyclists myself or anything but expect that for a local sportive rather than an Ironman.

Maybe ironman need to shorten the Cut-offs rather than lengthen them. The HIM is not easy and it should not be also (not too short or i will get cut off on the run though!!!).

The tough hills etc were well advertised and were part of the draw of this course. No excuse not to be able to cycle up them!

jester1980

mossym wrote: »

i think the toughness of the course is a good thing, not a bad, .it's a real marketing opportunity for ironman, start branding it as one of the hardest courses out there and use that as its USP

how was the run course? sounds like pretty flat, might want to change that a bit. make it tougher if you do down the tough race route. the run course at lost sheep is pretty undulating , with a pretty bad hill at 17 to 18k right when teh legs are toast
https://www.strava.com/activities/698942622 (not my link but you can see the profile)

i wonder if it was marketed as one of the toughest HIMs (if it is) would you get as many bucket list racers?

Run is flat in fairness, maybe a tiny inline here or there but nothing to worry about.

EDit

nok2008 wrote: »

I looked through those photos from one of the posts earlier and am surprised by the amount of people walking up those hill. I would have expected a better / higher range of fitness than that. None of those hills were over 15% gradient and the worst of them were over by half way into the cycle. Not a fantastic cyclists myself or anything but expect that for a local sportive rather than an Ironman.

Maybe ironman need to shorten the Cut-offs rather than lengthen them. The HIM is not easy and it should not be also (not too short or i will get cut off on the run though!!!).

The tough hills etc were well advertised and were part of the draw of this course. No excuse not to be able to cycle up them!

Agreed. I saw one guy off pushing his bike on the first hill after Powerscourt; he was red in the face and puffing like a train. I remember thinking that he had an awful long way left if he was knackered already.

To be fair though, I suspect that some people, even if somewhat prepared for the bike route, were thrown off their race plan by the swim. A big difference doing that cycle on fresh legs on one of the weekends leading up to the race vs after ploughing ~2k through a relatively rough Irish Sea.

P.S. I personally hope they leave the run alone. Not because I don’t want it to get harder (ok, I don’t ) but because the run through the town makes for a great atmosphere (both for participants and spectators). To make it harder, they would have to take it out of the town, which I think would loose some of that atmosphere

mloc123

mossym wrote: »

People walking isn't necessarily a sign that the course is harder...

This...

People wondering why the DNF rate is so high compared to any other IM branded race... the quality of entrant.

The bike course may be difficult but people entering should be able to evaluate that. Who enters a race that the cannot easily make the cut-off times?

mloc123

I wonder would an Ironman 70.3 sportif be the answer...

No cut-off times, people can swim with snorkels, cycle with e-bikes and use a mobility scooter on the run if they like.

Everyone gets a medal, certificate and a selfie on the finish line. You can go ahead and get the m dot tattoo afterwards and call yourself "an ironman"

jester1980

mloc123 wrote: »

I wonder would an Ironman 70.3 sportif be the answer...

No cut-off times, people can swim with snorkels, cycle with e-bikes and use a mobility scooter on the run if they like.

Everyone gets a medal, certificate and a selfie on the finish line. You can go ahead and get the m dot tattoo afterwards and call yourself "an ironman"

HAHA tell us how you really feel why don't you, funny though

EDit

mloc123 wrote: »

This...

People wondering why the DNF rate is so high compared to any other IM branded race... the quality of entrant.

The bike course may be difficult but people entering should be able to evaluate that. Who enters a race that the cannot easily make the cut-off times?

Was it though? I was reading a blog about IM 70.3 Edinburgh and it sounded like they had a hellish swim (in the bloody North Sea, what do you expect :pac:) and a higher attrition rate than DL. I would imagine quite a few of the UK-based IM events have a similar issue with the swim being rough...do they not have similar DNF rates?

mloc123

EDit wrote: »

Was it though? I was reading a blog about IM 70.3 Edinburgh and it sounded like they had a hellish swim (in the bloody North Sea, what do you expect :pac:) and a higher attrition rate than DL. I would imagine quite a few of the UK-based IM events have a similar issue with the swim being rough...do they not have similar DNF rates?

I don't know tbh... somebody posted a few pages back that the % of DNF was higher than any other 70.3, thus proving it was the hardest race in Europe

Marty Bird

mossym wrote: »

if anyone can post a picture of someone pushing a p5x up the wicklow hills from the weekend i'd genuinly love to see it.

and even then it's not 15k. di2 p5x for 9000 usd.
https://www.racycles.com/product/detail/12731

I didn’t say anyone was on one at IM DL I’m saying that you can get a bike for over 10k nowadays. And how much would you pay for duty if bought from RA?

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Cervelo/P5X-eTap-Triathlon-Bike-2018/ENFH

jester1980

I cant really blame the sea on DNF. I was expecting around 35 mins and got just under 42, like that's not really a massive difference.

There was a current but the sea was still calm, the only thing about the swim was it was a little long (300m on my garmin) but I believe that had been the case in previous years also.

rxchxy

It was my first time doing a HIM, branded or unbranded, and I thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. I wouldn't be a strong cyclist and I found the climbing tough but definitely doable. The course and the climbing involved were advertised 8 months ago so I don't think people had any excuse to be walking up hills. Lack of training in my opinion. Also they made the course a fair bit easier by taking off the section down by the Hell Fire Club and back up, as well as giving an extra 15 mins.

In the race briefing they showed all the intermediate cut offs and what time of the day you had to be at each point (12km point at 9.50am, 20km point at 10.15am, 61 km point at 12.15pm and 72km at 12.45 pm). The briefing I attended anyway they were very clear that you would be taken out of the race if you were not at these points by the set time as they had to re open the roads.

People knew what they signed up for. They knew there were cut off times and they should've been prepared to race the race along with the conditions on the day, whether that be a slightly choppier swim or headwinds at the Sally Gap. If they didn't make the cut off then I guess go away train harder and come back next year and go again.

cjt156

I had a great day, although I did question my sanity for a bit on the long grind to the Featherbeds, when the rain & wind came in and visibility was down to 10 meters or so.

I expected a 35 min swim; came in at 43. It may have been long, or currents, or whatever. Most likely I'm still crap at sighting and end up zig-zagging between bouys.
The bike course I'm familiar with; this is where I cycle. I was under-trained compared to previous years and finished the bike in something like 3:40.
The run was great, a nice buzz in the town and I managed to pick off a lot of the people that had passed me on the bike. 1:55 ish I think. 6:36 total.

Just to note that the first Pro across the line finished in 4:13. And he had to cycle the same route as the rest of us.
Now maybe he had an eleventy-billion dollar bike, but I'm guessing the reason he was so much faster than me, and than those that missed the cutoff, was mainly down to training...

WattsUp

Quote from Bryan McCrystal sums up the difficulty  "[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Segoe UI", "Helvetica Neue", Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"]Thanks all.. pig of a course.. chatting with Andy Potts after.. he said he's done well over 200 70.3 races and that ranks as the hardest!" [/font]

I have done lost sheep a few times. It's far easier because there are only 3 main climbs that are well defined, have constant gradient and not particularly steep except maybe for last 200m of Healy Pass. They allow you get into a climbing rhythm and people tend to pace themselves better. In Wicklow there were steep ramps thank kill the legs if not paced correctly.  The descents, apart from the top half of Healy pass are non-technical and I know I have used the bars on the TT bike all the way own the other descents.  Lost sheep is also only 80k. I have done 2:30 in Kenmare compared to 3:15 in Wicklow.

lizzylad84

Andu Potts said it's the hardest IM 70.3 he's ever done .. surly it'll be a keeper on the IM events calendar with an "endorsement" like that

mossym

lizzylad84 wrote: »

Andu Potts said it's the hardest IM 70.3 he's ever done .. surly it'll be a keeper on the IM events calendar with an "endorsement" like that

that was the point i was making above. get it a reputation as the hardest 70.3 on the circuit and let that be what pulls people to the race.

and don't extend the cutoffs so that everyone can finish.

iwillhtfu

lizzylad84 wrote: »

Andu Potts said it's the hardest IM 70.3 he's ever done .. surly it'll be a keeper on the IM events calendar with an "endorsement" like that

Perhaps due to the conditions but that course on a good day is not a hard course. Yes the cycle has a lot of uphill but time lost on the up is easily made up on the down. The run course was flat and repetitive which I find makes it easier as you're constantly in the mix rather than heading out the road solo.

WattsUp

iwillhtfu wrote: »

lizzylad84 wrote: »

Andu Potts said it's the hardest IM 70.3 he's ever done .. surly it'll be a keeper on the IM events calendar with an "endorsement" like that

Perhaps due to the conditions but that course on a good day is not a hard course. Yes the cycle has a lot of uphill but time lost on the up is easily made up on the down. The run course was flat and repetitive which I find makes it easier as you're constantly in the mix rather than heading out the road solo.

Don't think it works like that that you get back on downhill what you give up on the climb!  Give it a lash sometime to confirm it to yourself.

iwillhtfu

20rothmans wrote: »

Don't think it works like that that you get back on downhill what you give up on the climb!  Give it a lash sometime to confirm it to yourself.

I've done that route in many different variations over the years. I guess the difficulty would be scaled against your effort and training. Although I didn't mean it as it sounded in my mind I was comparing it to a more undulating course where the effort would balance out over time.

mloc123

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I've done that route in many different variations over the years. I guess the difficulty would be scaled against your effort and training. Although I didn't mean it as it sounded in my mind I was comparing it to a more undulating course where the effort would balance out over time.

I have had to go and look over the course again here to see... I dunno. Sure there is a lot of metres climbed but I think it is being overstated how difficult it is.

The only tricky part that I see is the descent down cruagh. From the gap to that point on closed roads is very straight forward.

The climbs are climbs..

Marty Bird

The cycle route was tough but if the training was put in it was fine, I found the climbing sections in Gaelfoece Dublin harder than the climbing sections in IM DL.

spyderski

mossym wrote: »

if anyone can post a picture of someone pushing a p5x up the wicklow hills from the weekend i'd genuinly love to see it.

and even then it's not 15k. di2 p5x for 9000 usd.
https://www.racycles.com/product/detail/12731

That's a discounted off-the-shelf P5X with Ultegra. Before sales tax, in the US. No bother to give €15k + for a fully kitted P5X.

joey100

I've no idea if it was pushed up the hills but there was a P5X at the race the weekend, seen it on some of the facebook pics.

dickidy

i saw this bike,
first thing i noticed was the owners legs. fecking monster things the size of my waist

mossym

spyderski wrote: »

That's a discounted off-the-shelf P5X with Ultegra. Before sales tax, in the US. No bother to give €15k + for a fully kitted P5X.

FFS. the claim was there was lads pushing 15 to 20k bikes up the road. that was the bit i raised issue with

and the one i linked to was just the second one that came up on a google search. if it soothes the nerves here's a uk one for 12k. not discounted as it's on several european sites for the same price so looks like list
https://www.evanscycles.com/en-ie/cervelo-p5x-ultegra-di2-2018-triathlon-bike-EV309513

you could put solid gold handlebars with diamond encrusted brake levers on a high nelly and charge 18k for it if you wanted. now that probably has a good chance of being pushed up the hill.

Inspector Coptoor

mossym wrote: »

FFS. the claim was there was lads pushing 15 to 20k bikes up the road. that was the bit i raised issue with

and the one i linked to was just the second one that came up on a google search. if it soothes the nerves here's a uk one for 12k. not discounted as it's on several european sites for the same price so looks like list
https://www.evanscycles.com/en-ie/cervelo-p5x-ultegra-di2-2018-triathlon-bike-EV309513

you could put solid gold handlebars with diamond encrusted brake levers on a high nelly and charge 18k for it if you wanted. now that probably has a good chance of being pushed up the hill.

It was a flippant claim.
I shouldn’t have put a number on it.

I’ll rephrase - I was surprised to see so many expensive looking bikes being walked up the hills of Wicklow.

Is that better?

Can we drop it now?

stampydmonkey

Geez, where's the love round here. It's was a difficult race. Harder cycle than lost sheep but easier run. Lost sheep run is just cruel, even if you are ready and trained for it.

There were more than 1000 entries to 70.3 so bound to be a huge array of talent. Even a NS sprint has people struggling. And so what if people are pushing expensive bikes up hills, they're out and about trying something so happy days...could be at home hungover.

Would leave the course as is. Swim is decent, manageable but tide/flow changes keep it interesting even for good swimmers. Cycle route is spot on, very good challenge and lovely downhill all the way back from the mountains. Run is 3 laps with 3 sections in each. Personally was destroyed tired on the run but it was easy to break up each lap and the way crowds were centralised made it feel like a proper event.

It's very pricey but would definitely do it again.

PWEI

The website has "2019 TBD" on the home page.
It would be a shame if they didn't go ahead with it next year.

The Dublin 70.3 didn't appeal to me at all because of the split transition & bike course but I would love to have another crack at Dun Laoghaire.

dickidy

It's going to run for 2 more years

mloc123

PWEI wrote: »

The website has "2019 TBD" on the home page.
It would be a shame if they didn't go ahead with it next year.

The Dublin 70.3 didn't appeal to me at all because of the split transition & bike course but I would love to have another crack at Dun Laoghaire.

it'll be on, established race at this stage.

RacoonQueen

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-how-bored-do-you-have-to-be-to-think-ironman-is-a-good-idea-1.3608227#.W4OghVBE0sk.facebook


He must have been watching the ones who were pushing their bikes uphill :pac:


Bizarre article and really sums up the thoughts of the lazy amongst us who think that people who manage to find the time to train for things like this must have too much time on their hands rather than just the ability to pull themselves off the couch and away from the TV to do something more productive with their time.
14 hours of training a week is two hours a day. Really not that hard to find 2 hours a day over 7 days, don't even need to do 2 hours on workdays to hit that with the extra time you've got on days off.