Dun Laoghaire Ironman 70.3 2018

peter kern

Redial wrote: »

As a company, they'd be crazy not to consider it. If my dates are correct, interest appears to be dropping for the half over the past few years based on the sellout dates. I'm not sure what the magic number is to stay reasonably profitable. You'd have to assume that there's a window to convert those half people for a branded full before getting out of dodge.

I'd love to know what the percentage of participants is that did Dublin in the past 3 years where it was their first middle distance race. I bet it's high and this number could be a significant input in to a decision to run a branded full. Also love to see the population to participants ratios that go to Barcelona etc. from Ireland for a full.

i dont quite know the number i would say 1000 irish doing and ironman distance this year would not be far of and of those maybe 60 or so do 2 ( some 350 irish in barcelona)
i did hear this week germany with 80 milion inhabitants had 10 000 people doing an irondistance race this year

the brakeven point for a race would be roughly between 800 and 1200. depending on what council pays and title sponosr currency exchange and whatever
so a race that has 2400 people is likely more proifitalbe than 2 races with 1400
I do think an ironman branded full would work maybe for 1 or 2 races but it would not be sustainable in my mind (or better the way ironman likes to conduct bussiness ) ,
and as i said 2 Im branded races in ireland in one year I cant see happening ( that of course dosnt mean it wont but i would be very suprised and if it would happen i would see it in the way they do it in malaysia and other places where they have a 70.3 and a full at the same day and same course
if you look at the other im threads in the forun there were many people that said they would not do a full ironman in Ireland,

I guess getting up the numbers to 350 people or so for the hardman would be sustainalble for ireland .

RacoonQueen

If I was to do a full distance in Ireland - I'd be looking at the likes of Hardman. No chance I'd dole out 600 on entry to do a branded race here. Part of the pull of the branded race for me is the holiday you get out of it too. Would probably work out roughly the same by the time you enter hardman, travel to Killarney and pay accommodation there as it would to do a branded race in Dublin though
Full distance in Ireland wouldn't have been very appealing to me for my first - think I'd be happy enough to go for it now that I've traveled twice for one. Plus in an Irish one the numbers would be low enough that you can place higher and make people think you're anything more than distinctly average.

peter kern

could you explain me the logic behind , abroad you do ironman at home not ... you could do a non branded full and make a vacation out of it ....

there is
regensburg unesco city
elbaman great island
the amazing embrunman alps
balertonman lake etc

RacoonQueen

Harder to find info on non-branded fulls abroad. Part of the appeal of IM is the big race day experience. Have never heard of any of the races you list. Branded you'll also have a lot of other Irish there so you're never on your own, there'll always be people you know or at least kinda know. Go do some obscure race in the back ar*se of Lithuania and you'll likely be on your tod.
Lots of reasons really. Hard to get a gang of others interested in non-branded races.
At home, doing long distance would be fine. Easy to find out how to get where you are going. They speak the same language for getting race info etc
Any time I've looked for non-branded overseas have found it next to impossible to find race info / anything in english.

Shedite27

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Harder to find info on non-branded fulls abroad. Part of the appeal of IM is the big race day experience. Have never heard of any of the races you list. Branded you'll also have a lot of other Irish there so you're never on your own, there'll always be people you know or at least kinda know. Go do some obscure race in the back ar*se of Lithuania and you'll likely be on your tod.

That's it for me, with Ironman you're guaranteed a standard and crowd,

peter kern

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Harder to find info on non-branded fulls abroad. Part of the appeal of IM is the big race day experience. Have never heard of any of the races you list. Branded you'll also have a lot of other Irish there so you're never on your own, there'll always be people you know or at least kinda know. Go do some obscure race in the back ar*se of Lithuania and you'll likely be on your tod.
Lots of reasons really. Hard to get a gang of others interested in non-branded races.
At home, doing long distance would be fine. Easy to find out how to get where you are going. They speak the same language for getting race info etc
Any time I've looked for non-branded overseas have found it next to impossible to find race info / anything in english.

http://en.challenge-regensburg.com/ ( likley wont be a challenge race 2018 year )
http://www.elbaman.it/index.asp
http://www.ironcat.org/irocas/homeengl1.htm
http://www.embrunman.com/fichiers/pratiacls%202015.html
http://www.austria-triathlon.at/en

bearman in france organiced irish couple should be english

pretty much all the spanish non branded races have english websites

balertonman in hungary a bit more tricky but there is some english too but there is a forum member who has been there .

the rest i cant comment as i guess iam too different and like exactly what you dont like .

yheno

Have you actually done Elbaman ????

peter kern

i havent but an athlete of mine has and a friend of mine as well and both liked it a lot .
not an easy bike ( similar to IM UK ) but really nice . I have been to elba and its a great island.
if you have a look at facebok page it get excellent reviews too ( the first one s by a german who has done the race 7 times ) and all the english reviwes are very good too.
i assume this year is the last year its being run.

BTH

peter kern wrote: »

i assume this year is the last year its being run.

Maybe not

http://www.220triathlon.com/news/elbaman-to-return-in-2018/12111.html

Redial

peter kern wrote: »

I do think an ironman branded full would work maybe for 1 or 2 races but it would not be sustainable in my mind (or better the way ironman likes to conduct bussiness ) ,
and as i said 2 Im branded races in ireland in one year I cant see happening ( that of course dosnt mean it wont but i would be very suprised and if it would happen i would see it in the way they do it in malaysia and other places where they have a 70.3 and a full at the same day and same course.

So do I Peter. The question I'm pondering though, is if the IM half will be still be on the island in 3/4 years given the popularity is slowly waning and if as part of that exit plan, IM will run a few full races before moving on. It makes business sense to me to do so.

Let's not kid ourselves about the sustainability piece. That's not in their plan. They have the market data and can probably tell us now how many years they have left to maximise profits before moving on somewhere else.

If/ when they do go though, they'll have to get credit for contributing to the boost in Triathlon participation in Ireland over the past few years. I also bet that participation will drop when they do. I'd be hoping when the dust settles that the club races get a lift on the back of it and are winners in the long term.

peter kern

BTH wrote: »

Maybe not

http://www.220triathlon.com/news/elbaman-to-return-in-2018/12111.html

i meant 2018 last year

jnk883

You would have to wonder though would a full attract more people from abroad. Maybe its not worth their while to travel for a half but they would for a full. If an IM branded full came to Ireland I'd definitely think about doing it. I'm a sucker of wanting my 1st full distance race to be an IM. I had thought about going to Bolton or Tenby but the cost of travel and getting the bike over, the extra days needed either side etc put me off. But if in Ireland, and even better Cork it would be so much easier to arrange from my side.
But as mentioned above I feel a half distance would need to run along side it to make it commercial sense. Again no doubt IM would have the research done on is it viable or not. It will be interested on seeing how it works out. Since its 2019 I have a feeling this conversation could go on until this time next year

Shedite27

The only full IM I've done was Austria.

The bike course was 2 laps, as was the run. So apart from having to close the roads for twice as long, they still needed the same amount of bollards, branding, barriers, transitions etc. Obviously need more food/drink too, but certainly can't imagine it needs a big jump in funding. In UK for example, 70.3 is £310, full £440.

Point being I guess that you probably need less athletes to get to the break even point for a full.

peter kern

So do I Peter. The question I'm pondering though, is if the IM half will be still be on the island in 3/4 years given the popularity is slowly waning and if as part of that exit plan, IM will run a few full races before moving on. It makes business sense to me to do so.

Let's not kid ourselves about the sustainability piece. That's not in their plan. They have the market data and can probably tell us now how many years they have left to maximise profits before moving on somewhere else.

If/ when they do go though, they'll have to get credit for contributing to the boost in Triathlon participation in Ireland over the past few years. I also bet that participation will drop when they do. I'd be hoping when the dust settles that the club races get a lift on the back of it and are winners in the long term.



i do not think ironman race in ireland has much part in boosting triathlon in ireland when they arrived the boost had already happend, the reason behind this are a few people around in 2002 the at the then time president of Ti and presdent of 3d and one of the main founder of tri athlone the main figure . lmerick tri club keepng alvie the hell of the west and also the guy we cant talk about on boards growng belpark and being involed in tri athy they were the main force and of course forget at least 10 more people. followed by steady good work by Ti clubs etc.
Ironman has an impact in the bucketlist triathlon , and thats also good , if they go we surely will have less "one triathlon and out people" but i would not see this as an issue and would think this will be compnenstated that many tri clubs are starting up youth sections.
and yes people are likley do do more races as less of the entry fee budeget is tight up in 1 race .

of course its a profit focused company but you will see that almost as often as not ,the reason they move on is because councils dont want to pay the fees anymore as they dont see the return of investment.or their is change of leading parties after an election with dffernt interest,
or too many people complainng about the race. etc

the problem is not ironman its an self proclaimed agressve company but still overall does more good to the sport than bad , the problem are the triathletes that allow Ironman become a momopoly . monoplies are never good.

EC1000

Redial wrote: »

If/ when they do go though, they'll have to get credit for contributing to the boost in Triathlon participation in Ireland over the past few years.

Don't agree with the above. I think it's safe to say Ironman arrived as a result of the boom in participation rather than the other way around. Those that take part in branded races in Ireland make up a tiny percentage of "triathletes" here. It's all about the business case for IM and they weren't long slinging their hook in Galway when the money ran dry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as much a sucker for an IM race as the next person but if fairness, I think the rise in level of participation in Tri preceeded IM coming to these shores and is a result of the dedication of the various clubs who have been organising excellent races for years (Lost Sheep, HOTW, etc.) and will continue to do so after IM have decided to stay or go.

Redial

EC1000 wrote: »

Don't agree with the above. I think it's safe to say Ironman arrived as a result of the boom in participation rather than the other way around. Those that take part in branded races in Ireland make up a tiny percentage of "triathletes" here. It's all about the business case for IM and they weren't long slinging their hook in Galway when the money ran dry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as much a sucker for an IM race as the next person but if fairness, I think the rise in level of participation in Tri preceeded IM coming to these shores and is a result of the dedication of the various clubs who have been organising excellent races for years (Lost Sheep, HOTW, etc.) and will continue to do so after IM have decided to stay or go.

I'm not saying they started the boom in participation nor am I saying that they were the main reason for any significant increases - far from it actually. There's not enough benefit for them in being a trailblazer in a market. I'm wondering about when and how Dublin could go the way of Galway, what the conditions need to be like to move on (as Ireland is no longer viable) and whether IM will throw in a few fulls before doing so for good measure to squeeze the last out of it. I'm also not saying that levels of participation will be significantly affected by the decision to stay/go.

I am saying that the numbers who have completed a triathlon in the past 3 years would not have been the same if IM didn't come to town based on my own experience and the draw of the brand. Whether it's enough to make a dent is a different conversation but they should get credit for that in the overall story none the less.

<pinktext> I also wonder how increasing the quality of the t-shirt and finishers medal in all races (something we all secretly advocate for) would help elevate the sport to the next level </pinktext>

Back to Topic....

peter kern

they have been a trailblazer in many many countries
USA, austria japan sweden Canada brasil switzerland philipines taiwan, denmark in the later two maybe challenge played a bigger part and germany to some extend would come to mind.

i dont think they squeze out a market they have squezed out competiors
and they are responsible that triathlon is more and more perceived a rich mans sport but on top of my head there is not a single country they are currently not represented were they have set up races ( malaysia and china they had left for a while for a while but are back)

Munstermunch

Ok so I have entered my first Half Ironman 19th August 2018 Dunlaoirge. Tuned in last night to listen to race director talk about course profile & I have to say the cycle route scares the life out of me 😩to date I have only done a few sprint Triathlons & even at that I just do them to complete them I’m not a speedy triathlete. Beginning to wonder if I’ve jumped the gun a bit. Would love to hear from any other Novices who are doing it this year & also experienced triathlete & cyclists familiar with the course especially the cycle. Is is achievable for newbies like me with not much cycle experience & none up the mountains. Thanks

Boards.ie: Niamh

Welcome to Boards, Munstermunch. I've moved your query to the Triathlon forum where you should get some advice

Statler

Munstermunch wrote: »

Ok so I have entered my first Half Ironman 19th August 2018 Dunlaoirge. Tuned in last night to listen to race director talk about course profile & I have to say the cycle route scares the life out of me &#55357;&#56873;to date I have only done a few sprint Triathlons & even at that I just do them to complete them I’m not a speedy triathlete. Beginning to wonder if I’ve jumped the gun a bit. Would love to hear from any other Novices who are doing it this year & also experienced triathlete & cyclists familiar with the course especially the cycle. Is is achievable for newbies like me with not much cycle experience & none up the mountains. Thanks

You've 9 months to train, you'll be grand. The bike route is tough, but by no means impossible. If you live nearby train on the route as often as possible, at least from Shankill onwards, the first 9/10km of the bike route isn't the most pleasant with traffic, although a lot of it has bike paths, but it's just not particularly nice and there's no real climbs on it apart from a short lumpy bit coming up to Sallynoggin.

Milk_Tray

Munstermunch wrote: »

Ok so I have entered my first Half Ironman 19th August 2018 Dunlaoirge. Tuned in last night to listen to race director talk about course profile & I have to say the cycle route scares the life out of me &#55357;&#56873;to date I have only done a few sprint Triathlons & even at that I just do them to complete them I’m not a speedy triathlete. Beginning to wonder if I’ve jumped the gun a bit. Would love to hear from any other Novices who are doing it this year & also experienced triathlete & cyclists familiar with the course especially the cycle. Is is achievable for newbies like me with not much cycle experience & none up the mountains. Thanks

join a club and get out with them, that will bring you on serious amounts

paulie gaultieri

The wicklow 100 sportif in early June might be worth doing munstermunch if you're based around Dublin. A few hilly sportifs beforehand and you'll be fine.

Munstermunch

paulie gaultieri wrote: »

The wicklow 100 sportif in early June might be worth doing munstermunch if you're based around Dublin. A few hilly sportifs beforehand and you'll be fine.

Yes was looking at Wicklow 100 Paulie will this cover some of the same route as Ironman Dunlaoirge?

Statler

Munstermunch wrote: »

Yes was looking at Wicklow 100 Paulie will this cover some of the same route as Ironman Dunlaoirge?

Not really the same route, the section up Old Long Hill after Enniskerry to Roundwood is the same if I'm not mistaken, but done in reverse on both events, we'll be coming back down Old Long Hill on the 70.3 I think. Considering how far away both events are why not aim for the Wicklow 200, plenty of climbs on that and if you get around that in one piece there's nothing on the IM 70.3 that should worry you.

paulie gaultieri

Sorry haven't really studied the new 70.3 route - if you are worried about the 70.3 profile munstermunch the full w200 might be a tall order....its a tough day if you're not conditioned for that distance and profile. Another sportif to consider is the mick byrne 100 which departs Cuala Gaa pitch in Dalkey at the end of May. The starting point is only a few kms from the 70.3 start.....

noddy69

Statler wrote: »

Not really the same route, the section up Old Long Hill after Enniskerry to Roundwood is the same if I'm not mistaken, but done in reverse on both events, we'll be coming back down Old Long Hill on the 70.3 I think. Considering how far away both events are why not aim for the Wicklow 200, plenty of climbs on that and if you get around that in one piece there's nothing on the IM 70.3 that should worry you.

Not the same section if the wicklow route is like last year.The road the IM is on is the back road while the W100/200 takes the main road all the way.

Still is def worth doing pre IM as a tester for the legs

Ro55er

It's definitely a very tough course but doable physically. It's very similar to my long ride route which I'd do weekly in the summer. There's some nasty hills without a doubt. The run will be a different beast now.

My biggest concern is that there are some very fast descents around Tinnehinch and Long hill where the road surface isn't great (Very bumpy and jumpy at speed). On a Sunday plod absolutely no problem but TT bikes and racing cowboys could make these pretty hairy. Very surprised to be honest. If I was to pick the Hilliest 90km in south Dublin/Wicklow this would pretty much be it. I do wonder if whoever made the route ever actually rode it. Obviously popular on strava route planner but for an Ironman race?? Not sure it's wise. Future entries may suffer.

Seanie_H

Most Ironman courses are:
a) simple and flat OR
b) have at least one really tough leg

The difficulty will be a draw for a lot of people also

Ro55er

Seanie_H wrote: »

Most Ironman courses are:
a) simple and flat OR
b) have at least one really tough leg

The difficulty will be a draw for a lot of people also

For sure and lighter riders will love it, although I'd be more likely to use a road bike looking at the profile. I'd also say that the twisty descents and the road surface on those sections, which theres no arguing are pretty crap, would make a TT bike treacherous. I would like to use a TT bike in a home Ironman but knowing the route I could see problems.

For me it was a bit of a let down but I'll get over it (literally). Unfortunately for some friends the challenge was completing it, which now is genuinely unrealistic compared to last year.

EC1000

Ro55er wrote: »

which now is genuinely unrealistic compared to last year.

Why?