Why cant we just do all the no brainer infrastructure projects

veryangryman

I know money fiscal rules etc...

But surely the major luas, m20, metro north, bottleneck bypasses like adare, n4 gap, widening projects are guaranteed profit earners.

I feel like this fiscal prudency is costing us alot more than these projects would. Could the gov not pitch the guaranteed success of these projects to Europe and then plough on with them rather than such piecemeal bull

MayoSalmon

veryangryman wrote:

Could the gov not pitch the guaranteed success of these projects to Europe and then plough on with them rather than such piecemeal bull

Pitch like Dragons Den or something? They took ownership or this country no less than 4 years ago I would rather we don't see them again for another 100

LeinsterDub

Because ballybeirtduine needs a hospital and a post office and a floodlit gaa pitch and it's own garda station and a bypass

veryangryman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Because ballybeirtduine needs a hospital and a post office and a floodlit gaa pitch and it's own garda station and a bypass

And such a pitch would be told where to go.

padser

veryangryman wrote: »

I know money fiscal rules etc...

Really?

marno21

veryangryman wrote: »

I know money fiscal rules etc...

But surely the major luas, m20, metro north, bottleneck bypasses like adare, n4 gap, widening projects are guaranteed profit earners.

I feel like this fiscal prudency is costing us alot more than these projects would. Could the gov not pitch the guaranteed success of these projects to Europe and then plough on with them rather than such piecemeal bull

Fiscal rules do not explain:

* Why the €12-15m to get the M20 to planning permission stage has not been allocated in the last few years because "its not on the Capital plan", but money was found in the quiet to progress Enda's N5 upgrade and Jimmy Deenihan's Listowel bypass

* Why Metro North, with planning permission, is being redesigned delaying it til 2027, when the economic cost of congestion is rising and Dublin Airport is about to pass 30 million passengers, to save a few bob which is being spent on a worthless BRT stopgap measure. The mind boggles at this ****.

* Why DART Underground requires another tunnel redesign

* Why useless DART Expansion to Balbriggan is prioritised over incredibly beneficial DART to Maynooth

Shane Ross has turned from being a useless **** to a total and utter liability to this country. The bus fetish and the lack of any awareness of the transport issues in this country is incredible. His "do nothing" approach to Bus Eireann's strike should not be commended because this is his attitude to everything.

But sure isn't it great, Luas BXD is opening in a few weeks, the M17/M18 has opened etc and he was there for all the openings. Of course he played no part in any of them and if he were in power at the time would likely have deferred them in favour of "creative and imaginative solutions".

Road deaths are down 35 year on year as of today October 27. He has stayed very quiet on his militant approach to speeding and people having 2 pints recently.

sdanseo

Page 6 of this document indicates why we can't have nice things. Nearly two thirds of our total expenditure is on the combination of Social Protection and Health.

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2018/Documents/Expenditure%20Report%202018%20(Parts%20I-III).pdf

Zebra3

sdanseo wrote: »

Page 6 of this document indicates why we can't have nice things. Nearly two thirds of our total expenditure is on the combination of Social Protection and Health.

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2018/Documents/Expenditure%20Report%202018%20(Parts%20I-III).pdf

Boo hoo.

Huge problem is the money being burnt on private banking debt.

roadmaster

A huge problem is people see x billion for a metro etc and say it's to expensive and we can't afford it while they don't look at the bigger picture that things like the metro will still be here in some shape or form in 100 years

LeinsterDub

sdanseo wrote: »

Page 6 of this document indicates why we can't have nice things. Nearly two thirds of our total expenditure is on the combination of Social Protection and Health.

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2018/Documents/Expenditure%20Report%202018%20(Parts%20I-III).pdf

So you advocing cutting services from the elderly and sick?

ClovenHoof

You lost me at 'profit' - you answered your own question right there.

Until the pathologically stagnant and instutionalised Irish political, academic and media establishment in Ireland figure out that Public Transport is not designed to generate a profit things will never change. Nothing short of a Trump/Brexit type paradigm shift within the Irish body politic will change this deeply entrenced mentality.

and I do not mean building Ballymagash Light Rail. I am talking about building metros and more light rail in Dublin. Deliver the public trasport to where the majority of the public is.

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So you advocing cutting services from the elderly and sick?

More effective use of the money would be a good start.

How many people are on trolleys and waiting lists? Is that indicative of efficient money use?

PMBC

Whether imposed by EU or not, there is a limit to the amount of money we can borrow. Also there is a construction capacity issue. Otherwise construction costs become inflated. Therefore they are prioritized ....to an extent. Until political interference starts to re-prioritise.

roadmaster

PMBC wrote: »

Whether imposed by EU or not, there is a limit to the amount of money we can borrow. Also there is a construction capacity issue. Otherwise construction costs become inflated. Therefore they are prioritized ....to an extent. Until political interference starts to re-prioritise.

When it comes to construction capacity in regards to civils I don't thing that's a issue as all the big projects are finishing shortly and there does not appear to be new ones starting soon

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

When it comes to construction capacity in regards to civils I don't thing that's a issue as all the big projects are finishing shortly and there does not appear to be new ones starting soon

There's going to be a steady 3 big projects ongoing over the next few years

M17/M18 -> M7 widening
N25 New Ross -> Dunkettle
M11 Enniscorthy -> Macroom

There is also the N4/N5 schemes starting around 2019 (N4) and 2021 (N5)

Then after that the Ringaskiddy and Foynes motorways and in 2021 the Galway bypass and Metro North

Del.Monte

marno21 wrote: »

There's going to be a steady 3 big projects ongoing over the next few years

M17/M18 -> M7 widening
N25 New Ross -> Dunkettle
M11 Enniscorthy -> Macroom

There is also the N4/N5 schemes starting around 2019 (N4) and 2021 (N5)

Then after that the Ringaskiddy and Foynes motorways and in 2021 the Galway bypass and Metro North

Enniscorthy/Macroom ?

A motorway to Foynes?

Did I miss something, it's not April 1st.

marno21

Del.Monte wrote: »

Enniscorthy/Macroom ?

A motorway to Foynes?

Did I miss something, it's not April 1st.

Sorry, I meant that chronologically. When the first scheme finishes the next one will start. e.g. around the time the M11 Enniscorthy scheme is finishing up in late 2019 the Macroom bypass will be starting up. So we'll have big 3 road schemes ongoing until early 2022.

Del.Monte

What about the Foynes motorway - never heard of that one before?

marno21

Del.Monte wrote: »

What about the Foynes motorway - never heard of that one before?

https://www.foyneslimerick.ie/

So far we have indications that this will be motorway standard from Patrickswell to the Rathkeale interchange by junction design type. As for the rest, it'll definately have to be high quality protected road; but traffic volumes don't require full motorway, it'll likely be some kind of single carriageway with access restrictions and Protected Road status.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057028194

Del.Monte

On that basis it won't be long before there's a dual carriageway on the Ring of Kerry.

marno21

Del.Monte wrote: »

On that basis it won't be long before there's a dual carriageway on the Ring of Kerry.

Foynes and Ringaskiddy roads are required as Shannon Foynes and Ringaskiddy are Tier 1 Ports under EU TEN-T.

Ringaskiddy motorway is required regardless of EU TEN-T and M21 Rathkeale-Patrickswell is also required so the only part not so important is Rathkeale-Foynes.

There's also strong talks of the Foynes railway being demothballed.

Markcheese

And there's the rub, everyone has they're own idea of what public expenditure should be, should do..

__..__

roadmaster wrote: »

A huge problem is people see x billion for a metro etc and say it's to expensive and we can't afford it while they don't look at the bigger picture that things like the metro will still be here in some shape or form in 100 years

Metro North has been promised since even before all of the infrastructure south Dublin got.
It will never happen. But rest assured there will.br many more improvements to infrastructure in South Dublin and west Dublin before north Dublin.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

There's going to be a steady 3 big projects ongoing over the next few years

M17/M18 -> M7 widening
N25 New Ross -> Dunkettle
M11 Enniscorthy -> Macroom

There is also the N4/N5 schemes starting around 2019 (N4) and 2021 (N5)

Then after that the Ringaskiddy and Foynes motorways and in 2021 the Galway bypass and Metro North

I just don't have the same faith as yourself just look st the ardee bypass is it happening or is it not at this stage.

namloc1980

Any sign of the revised 10 year capital plan? Thought it would have been published by now.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

roadmaster wrote: »

When it comes to construction capacity in regards to civils I don't thing that's a issue as all the big projects are finishing shortly and there does not appear to be new ones starting soon

There's going to be a steady 3 big projects ongoing over the next few years

M17/M18 -> M7 widening
N25 New Ross -> Dunkettle
M11 Enniscorthy -> Macroom

There is also the N4/N5 schemes starting around 2019 (N4) and 2021 (N5)

Then after that the Ringaskiddy and Foynes motorways and in 2021 the Galway bypass and Metro North

Surely a North Ring from Dunkettle to Ballincollig/Ovens would be far more beneficial than Dunkettle to New Ross?

sdanseo

We've connected every city in Ireland (excluding Derry) to Dublin with a motorway in the last decade or so.

Widening the M7 between three junctions is not a "big project" in that context.

bk

sdanseo wrote: »

We've connected every city in Ireland (excluding Derry) to Dublin with a motorway in the last decade or so.

Widening the M7 between three junctions is not a "big project" in that context.

You are right, it isn't.

With the exception of the M20, the major road projects are done. It is time to turn our attention to the major rail projects Metro North and DART Underground.

sdanseo

bk wrote: »

You are right, it isn't.

With the exception of the M20, the major road projects are done. It is time to turn our attention to the major rail projects Metro North and DART Underground.

M20, M6 Galway Ring, N40 Cork North Ring, and with the spectre of Brexit finishing the M11 and some combination of N24/N25 upgrade are the key new corridors that will see us through a couple of decades without much need to touch anything else. Obviously some upgrades like M7 to be done as well.

We need to vastly improve commuter rail in Dublin and it's sickening how DU was the golden bullet option which should be opening next year and probably won't even be back on the table at all by then. We need some revolutionary shift in priorities to solve what is fast becoming an infrastructural crisis in Ireland, it goes a long way beyond trains and trams.

Our water system is crumbling, and the body responsible for fixing that particular mess is too busy giving out refunds.
We don't have enough houses and we are creating the second perfect property storm in a decade if you listen to McWilliams (who predicted the last crash with alarming accuracy)
Our hospitals are over capacity and even relatively new A&E like Tallaght / Mater are already overcrowded. We need at least two new hospitals in Dublin
The electricity grid is difficult to tell apart from the national network of trees.

Our road network is a spectacular success story amidst all of this and we should be proud of that but let's not let it detract from the huge challenges coming in the next few years and decades.

Carawaystick

A Public transport, cycling/pedestrian bridge linking D15 to Quarryvale/Palmerstown would be a big win, reducing the car commuting demand