Are we over the annual poppy thread?

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nowt like a bit of bile.

Nobody will take your poppy away. Relax.

you are absolutely damn right they wont.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think anyone got 'courts' quite right in the conflict/war.
Diplock courts and the one that conspired to cover up Bloody Sunday (Widgery). Gimme a break.

did those courts result in a bullet to the back of the head and burial in an unmarked grave?

citytillidie

maryishere wrote: »

All illegial killings are to be condemned.
Only 10% of the victims of the troubles were killed by the security services. 60% of the victims of the troubles were killed by Republicans.

i know how many died during the troubles all bad and most devastating is those people killed by their own government

maryishere

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and these are the people you think are fit to run this country?

If the Shinners were running the country in a UI, those they did not like would be out. No doubt about it. No parity of esteem. Relatives (and sometimes friends) of the hundreds of thousands of people who served in the 2 world wars are intimidated in to not supporting the Poppy, and told its the Butchers flower etc. No wonder there will not be a united Ireland in our lifetime.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

did those courts result in a bullet to the back of the head and burial in an unmarked grave?

Jyst one of them (Widgery) covered up the killing of more people than were disappeared. Innocent people.

riffmongous

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

did those courts result in a bullet to the back of the head and burial in an unmarked grave?

Many were the victims of summary justice and British Intelligence before they got near a court

citytillidie

maryishere wrote: »

If the Shinners were running the country in a UI, those they did not like would be out. No doubt about it. No parity of esteem. Relatives (and sometimes friends) of the hundreds of thousands of people who served in the 2 world wars are intimidated in to not supporting the Poppy, and told its the Butchers flower etc. No wonder there will not be a united Ireland in our lifetime.

If the poppy was just for those who died in the two world wars it would be fine but it is not and you know it is not

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jyst one of them (Widgery) covered up the killing of more people than were disappeared. Innocent people.

riffmongous wrote: »

Many were the victims of summary justice and British Intelligence before they got near a court

and absolutely none of that should be condoned and indeed roundly condemned. the problem is that people people like EOTR refuse to condemn the killing because of allegations (from the ira only) that she was a tout.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are absolutely damn right they wont.

Your channeling of the words of the National Rifle Association over what is supposed to be a symbol of peace, is a bit illuminating if not squirm inducing.

riffmongous

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and absolutely none of that should be condoned and indeed roundly condemned. the problem is that people people like EOTR refuse to condemn the killing because of allegations (from the ira only) that she was a tout.

Except by wearing the poppy you continue to support the BA who was responsible

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and absolutely none of that should be condoned and indeed roundly condemned. the problem is that people people like EOTR refuse to condemn the killing because of allegations (from the ira only) that she was a tout.

No, the problem is people like you exploit key victims of the conflict and fail to realise that all sides did many terrible things.

It is, as the poppy amply demonstrates, dangerous to blanket honour any army.

ohnonotgmail

riffmongous wrote: »

Except by wearing the poppy you continue to support the BA who was responsible

bollix, really, is the only answer to that. I've only ever made donations to the irish banch of the RBL. that money stays in ireland to help irish former members of the british army

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, the problem is people like you exploit key victims of the conflict and fail to realise that all sides did many terrible things.

It is, as the poppy amply demonstrates, dangerous to blanket honour any army.

not everybody is as blinkered as you. i'm well aware of atrocities on both sides. I keep raising jean mcconville as an example of the hypocrisy of some sinn fein members.

end of the road

maryishere wrote: »

Correct. The IRA claimed 1,778 lives, 642 of whom were civilians, according to the book Lost Lives. Many of the others were people like the census collector shot in Derry, or the cook Patsy Gillespie, who died along with five soldiers after being forced by the IRA to drive a car bomb into a check-point - the cook and census collecor were considered by the IRA to be legitimate targets. As were elected politicians : these were legitimate targets too. Not to mention off duty part time or retired security force members shot in the back while leaving grandchildren to school, or killed by cowardly booby trap bombs under family cars. The 642 who were pure civilians - like the people murdered in the Le Mon restaurant bombing - did not deserve to die, but neither did the over 1000 other people either. It set back Irish unity 100 years.

it didn't set back irish unity. at the time britain was never going to give up NI without a fight, because it still wanted some bit of an empire so it could have power over parts of the world. the fact is more civilians were killed by the rucbaloyalists then the ira. nobody has ever justified the killing of civilians by the ira.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

convicted in an ira kangaroo court no doubt. guilty til proven innocent of course. and these are the people you think are fit to run this country?

i never said she was guilty.
sinn fein are a legitimate political party, and had nothing to do with the killings during the troubles. they are hugely fit to run this country.

maryishere wrote: »

All illegial killings are to be condemned.
Only 10% of the victims of the troubles were killed by the security services. 60% of the victims of the troubles were killed by Republicans.

wrong, again.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are absolutely damn right they wont.

no but plenty of civilians got bullits to the back and to the head from rucbaloyalists.

maryishere wrote: »

If the Shinners were running the country in a UI, those they did not like would be out. No doubt about it. No parity of esteem. Relatives (and sometimes friends) of the hundreds of thousands of people who served in the 2 world wars are intimidated in to not supporting the Poppy, and told its the Butchers flower etc. No wonder there will not be a united Ireland in our lifetime.

oh there will. and the best thing is it will work out. only the likes of yourself will be clinging on to the past. it's coming mary, a UI is going to happen. you lost.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

squirm inducing.

What can be more squirm inducing that those who whinged about the court system when they condoned those who shot and intimidated Judges etc, condoned these who shot elected politicians because they did not agree with them etc.

Some other countries would hang such people / terrorists for treason.

riffmongous

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

bollix, really, is the only answer to that. I've only ever made donations to the irish banch of the RBL. that money stays in ireland to help irish former members of the british army

Bollix yourself. Buying a poppy you support the BA past and present according to the RBL themselves. Even if the money stays in ireland you are still supporting the organisation, no matter how much you pretend it's not true

indioblack

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ireland should lead the way with a new neutral symbol that remembers all the dead of wars and conflicts.

If that were to happen you would have contradicted your main objection to the RBL.
This thread, as in every year, has nothing to do with the poppy. The way it has fragmented into juvenile anti British accusations tells me that it is guilty of racialism and tribalism - the very things it claims are behind the poppy appeal.
Some posters think they're onto a good screw with Britain's history - so much so that it makes them lazy. They're too quick to demonstrate their self generated outrage that they twist history to suit their argument. It's laughable.
So convinced of their moral superiority that logic goes out the window.
There are points and criticisms to be made concerning the poppy - and they could be made in a reasonable debate. This isn't one.
There'll be another thread on this subject next year. Doomed to get nowhere because of half baked twisted versions of history - and with nothing to offer except racist insults masquerading as debating points.
Raise all the issues that you see behind the poppy debate - separately and individually. You might get a more productive debate on Anglo-Irish history.
You'll get nowhere with this thread.

ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

i never said she was guilty.

every time she is mentioned you mention the possibility of her "guilt" as if that justifies what happened.

end of the road wrote: »

sinn fein are a legitimate political party, and had nothing to do with the killings during the troubles. they are hugely fit to run this country.

filled with thugs and terrorists. Until all of that generation have died off they aren't fit to tun a charity shop.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not everybody is as blinkered as you. i'm well aware of atrocities on both sides. I keep raising jean mcconville as an example of the hypocrisy of some sinn fein members.

Eh, I had to point out to you that nobody got 'courts' right in the conflict.

See that word 'nobody'. That is not blinkered, my friend.

ohnonotgmail

riffmongous wrote: »

Bollix yourself. Buying a poppy you support the BA past and present according to the RBL themselves. Even if the money stays in you are still supporting the organisation, no matter how much you pretend it's not true

i support an organisation that supports irish people. they just happen to be the wrong sort of irish people according to the likes of you.

FrancieBrady

indioblack wrote: »

If that were to happen you would have contradicted your main objection to the RBL.
This thread, as in every year, has nothing to do with the poppy. The way it has fragmented into juvenile anti British accusations tells me that it is guilty of racialism and tribalism - the very things it claims are behind the poppy appeal.
Some posters think they're onto a good screw with Britain's history - so much so that it makes them lazy. They're too quick to demonstrate their self generated outrage that they twist history to suit their argument. It's laughable.
So convinced of their moral superiority that logic goes out the window.
There are points and criticisms to be made concerning the poppy - and they could be made in a reasonable debate. This isn't one.
There'll be another thread on this subject next year. Doomed to get nowhere because of half baked twisted versions of history - and with nothing to offer except racist insults masquerading as debating points.
Raise all the issues that you see behind the poppy debate - separately and individually. You might get a more productive debate on Anglo-Irish history.
You'll get nowhere with this thread.

What is your point?

end of the road

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

EOTR refuse to condemn the killing

i did condemn it. plenty of times.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not everybody is as blinkered as you. i'm well aware of atrocities on both sides. I keep raising jean mcconville as an example of the hypocrisy of some sinn fein members.

except it fails every time, because it's not an example of the hypocrisy of any sinn fein members.
you are using it for fo outrage and nothing else.

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

If the Shinners were running the country in a UI, those they did not like would be out. No doubt about it. No parity of esteem. Relatives (and sometimes friends) of the hundreds of thousands of people who served in the 2 world wars are intimidated in to not supporting the Poppy, and told its the Butchers flower etc. No wonder there will not be a united Ireland in our lifetime.

Utter horsecrap. Typical unsurprising nonsense from the unconditional Anglophile that you are Mary. If the Paras that murdered people on Bloody Sunday and the day of the Ballymurphy massacre were somehow down and out and came looking for money I'd tell them to go f**k themselves. It would be as insulting as the poverty stricken old soldiers of the Waffen SS came looking for money in Tel Aviv.

maryishere

end of the road wrote: »

sinn fein are a legitimate political party, and had nothing to do with the killings during the troubles.

They are a legitimate political party now, I'll give you that, although I would still not trust where all of their funding is coming from / has come from.

However to say they "had nothing to do with the killings during the troubles" is stretching it a bit: they seems in many peoples minds to have been a large overlap in membership, from Gerry Adams and McGuinness down.

ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

i did condemn it. plenty of times.



except it fails every time, because it's not an example of the hypocrisy of any sinn fein members.
you are using it for fo outrage and nothing else.

they want everybody to forget everything they did but bring up what the other side did at every opportunity. massive hypocrites. conveniently they also seem to have forgotten where they buried her body. Perhaps jerrys alzheimers is kicking in.

riffmongous

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i support an organisation that supports irish people. they just happen to be the wrong sort of irish people according to the likes of you.

The likes of me eh? God I'm so sorry I have no respect for those who blindly support the BA and their crimes

citytillidie

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they want everybody to forget everything they did but bring up what the other side did at every opportunity. massive hypocrites. conveniently they also seem to have forgotten where they buried her body. Perhaps jerrys alzheimers is kicking in.

lol that is NI both sides for you forget what they have done and blame the other side

end of the road

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

every time she is mentioned you mention the possibility of her "guilt" as if that justifies what happened.

i never said it justified it. i said it didn't justify it. but it seems fo outrage and lieing are your thing.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

filled with thugs and terrorists. Until all of that generation have died off they aren't fit to tun a charity shop.

nope wrong. filled with good politicians. they will be running this country soon, get preparing for it.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i support an organisation that supports irish people. they just happen to be the wrong sort of irish people according to the likes of you.

yes true. you are supporting an organisation that murdered people who their masters believed to be their own, on the basis of them identifying themselves from the country they were from.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they want everybody to forget everything they did but bring up what the other side did at every opportunity. massive hypocrites. conveniently they also seem to have forgotten where they buried her body. Perhaps jerrys alzheimers is kicking in.

Her body was recovered.

ohnonotgmail

riffmongous wrote: »

The likes of me eh? God I'm so sorry I have no respect for those who blindly support the BA and their crimes

that crap must have been posted at least 100 times in the course of this thread, if not a lot more. it doesnt get any closer to being true.