Are we over the annual poppy thread?

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

A south Armagh man who was “crucified” by the IRA 10 years ago today was so badly beaten that doctors told his mother “they left nothing for us to fix”.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/paul-quinn-murder-there-was-nothing-left-of-paul-to-fix-after-ira-beating-1-8206039

Are we just going to swap gruesome stories or are you going to deal with the fact that the poppy endorses and honours this behaviour?
The BA have engaged in torture, unlawful killing everywhere they have been and they have been to many places.

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

Wrong "The British Army had sealed off the original route so the march organisers led most of the demonstrators towards 'Free Derry Corner' in the nationalist Bogside area of the city. Despite this, a number of people continued on towards an army barricade where local youths threw stones at soldiers, who responded with a water cannon, CS gas and rubber bullets."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/bloody_sunday

The Catholic priest there too at the time is on record about seeing an armed Republican gunman. He later became a Bishop and admitted it did not make him "flavour of the month" in Derry for a while.

Dont take Mary too seriously everyone. She probably reckons Widgery was more accurate than Saville.........

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The BA have engaged in torture, unlawful killing everywhere they have been and they have been to many places.

Even their enemies would admit, of all the armies in WW2, the British and their commonwealth allies were the most honourable / best behaved.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

A south Armagh man who was “crucified” by the IRA 10 years ago today was so badly beaten that doctors told his mother “they left nothing for us to fix”.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/paul-quinn-murder-there-was-nothing-left-of-paul-to-fix-after-ira-beating-1-8206039

Are we just going to swap gruesome stories or are you going to deal with the fact that the poppy endorses and honours this behaviour?
The BA have engaged in torture, unlawful killing everywhere they have been and they have been to many places.

You said the IRA didn't take part in torture, a complete lie as pointed out by the evidence. I could list multiple examples but it's a waste of time because it would just be whataboutery central and that bores the people, it's not entertainment to the general reader.

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

Even their enemies would admit, of all the armies in WW2, the British and their commonwealth allies were the most honourable / best behaved.

The citizens of Dresden mightn't agree............

citytillidie

maryishere wrote: »

Even their enemies would admit, of all the armies in WW2, the British and their commonwealth allies were the most honourable / best behaved.

But the poppy does not stop at support for WWII it goes on to help all those service men who misbehaved all over the world including this Island

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

You said the IRA didn't take part in torture, a complete lie as pointed out by the evidence. I could list multiple examples but it's a waste of time because it would just be whataboutery central and that bores the people, it's not entertainment to the general reader.

Would you do us all a favour and read the posts.

I said 'I see no evidence videos that they enjoyed doing it'.
You are complaining about the thread going to hell and then do that.

When you decide not to apologise for misquoting maybe answer the question I asked?

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would you do us all a favour

You do not speak for "us" all Francie.

maryishere

Deleted User wrote: »

The citizens of Dresden mightn't agree............

Until you point out it was their Luftwaffe who bombed British cities ( London, Coventry etc ) first, not to mention Belfast.

I do not 100% agree with Dresden, but I can see the thinking in attacking it in order to try to shorten the war slightly and hence liberate the extermination caps that little bit quicker.

citytillidie

maryishere wrote: »

Until you point out it was their Luftwaffe who bombed British cities ( London, Coventry etc ) first, not to mention Belfast.

I do not 100% agree with Dresden, but I can see the thinking in attacking it in order to try to shorten the war slightly and hence liberate the extermination caps that little bit quicker.

Liberate those in extermination camps then send them to Palestine and rename it Israel and kill off the native people.

British Army and Government do not have clean hands in anything

maryishere

citytillidie wrote: »

But the poppy does not stop at support for WWII it goes on to help all those service men who misbehaved all over the world including this Island

Every organisation in the world has the odd bad apple. However, none of the 120,000 Irish people who volunteered to serve in British forces in WW2 were mistreated by the army or faced any discrimination as far as I know, or came across any wrong doing. I would trust them more than shinner propoganda.

citytillidie

maryishere wrote: »

Every organisation in the world has the odd bad apple. However, none of the 120,000 Irish people who volunteered to serve in British forces in WW2 were mistreated by the army or faced any discrimination as far as I know, or came across any wrong doing. I would trust them more than shinner propoganda.

Have you lost anyone to the BA? Did you grown up in Northern Ireland through the troubles.

I have never voted Sinn Fein and was disappointed when i seen that Derry lost its SDLP seat

FrancieBrady

citytillidie wrote: »

Have you lost anyone to the BA? Did you grown up in Northern Ireland through the troubles.

I have never voted Sinn Fein and was disappointed when i seen that Derry lost its SDLP seat

If you criticise the British you are a Shinner...get with the programme

maryishere

citytillidie wrote: »

Have you lost anyone to the BA?

No. I do know people however - not very close - who lost family to the IRA, but that is not surprising, given that Republicans killed about seven times more people than the BA did.

citytillidie wrote: »

Did you grown up in Northern Ireland through the troubles.

I spent time there but spent most of my life south of the border.

citytillidie wrote: »

I have never voted Sinn Fein and was disappointed when i seen that Derry lost its SDLP seat

As you know, SDLP was a bigger party than Sinn Fein during the troubles / got more votes. I can see there were good and bad people on all sides. SDLP people like Gerry Fitt I admired. A good man.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you criticise the British condone PIRA / Republican terrorism in the troubles and go on about the "butchers flower" etc, you are a Shinner

Fixed that for you Francie

citytillidie

maryishere wrote: »

No. I do know people however - not very close - who lost family to the IRA, but that is not surprising, given that Republicans killed about seven times more people than the BA did.



I spent time there but spent most of my life south of the border.


As you know, SDLP was a bigger party than Sinn Fein during the troubles / got more votes. I can see there were good and bad people on all sides. SDLP people like Gerry Fitt I admired. A good man.

Well I am born and bred in Derry and lost family during the troubles.

As I have been saying the poppy does not stop at WWII it continues on to other conflicts around the world.

I have zero issues with anyone who wears one, I have friends from protestant backgrounds who will wear them. Just don't like the blinkered view that the BA is all good. It is not just a few bad apples if it has gone on for long period of time

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

Fixed that for you Francie

Stock dive into the muck rather than apologise to the poster four getting it wrong.

Par for the course. Misquote and abuse when your argument is in trouble.

riffmongous

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that crap must have been posted at least 100 times in the course of this thread, if not a lot more. it doesnt get any closer to being true.

But even though the generation of the Great War has now passed, the Royal British Legion maintains its relevance in Limerick and the Republic of Ireland today. Not just in keeping faith with the Fallen in Remembrance, but also as an important resource in the continuing welfare and support of the numerous men and women in Ireland who served in the Allied Forces during World War II and later.

What exactly does 'and later' refer to?

http://www.rbl-limerick.webs.com/

FrancieBrady

riffmongous wrote: »

What exactly does 'and later' refer to?

http://www.rbl-limerick.webs.com/

It means the schizophrenia at the heart of the whole poppy charade IMO.

Ken.

Mod-maryishere, do not post in this thread again. Reason-being a dick.

maryishere

Conspectus wrote: »

Mod-maryishere, do not post in this thread again. Reason-being a dick.

Are you a Mod? Genuine question: I thought Mods had that qualification in the left hand column.

Because if anyone is a dick, I do not think it is me. But let your debate be one sided if you so want.

citytillidie: sorry to hear you lost family members in the troubles, condolences. We can hopefully agree to disagree. I agree with you when you say "Just don't like the blinkered view that the BA is all good." No organisation that has had millions pass through it t all good. Everyones experiences are different. Good luck.

Mod-Yes I am a mod. Banned

NIMAN

This guy has the right idea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41930507

I remember the Cookie Monster well myself. Talk about turning it into a laughing stock.

Jawgap

For the day that's in it......

So here, while the mad guns curse overhead,
And tired men sigh with mud for couch and floor,
Know that we fools, now with the foolish dead,
Died not for flag, nor King, nor Emperor,—
But for a dream, born in a herdsman's shed,
And for the secret Scripture of the poor.

From To My Daughter Betty, The Gift of God by Tom Kettle, nationalist, economist, poet and one of the co-founders of Óglaigh na hÉireann.

Killed in action with 'B' Company of the 9th Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers near Ginchy during the Somme Offensive in France.

IRSH MAN

there was a fella i went to school with his name was John

after i finished Tarbert Comprehensive i got a job in Kerry Group Listowel

John was a guest in my flat

at that time John had been working in England so we were talking about working abroad etc

i went into another room to get a dvd when i came back i saw John was using his phone to take photos of my television

before he left we had the following exchange ..

Will you do me a favor ?
if i can ..
will you delete those photos ?
what photos ?
do you want me to call the Guards John ?

as soon as i mentioned the Gardaí he took out his phone, deleted the photos then he called me a "sad bastard"

he left and i stopped talking to him after that

days later i was outside Listowel cinema i was standing there when a vehicle pulled up it was John's father

Christy sat there staring at me

he stayed there for a while then he drove away

After my brother came home for christmas he went to the pub

John was there and he acted like nothing happened

He said to my brother "Tell Gerard i was askin for him "

when my brother came home and said that to me i felt like i was going to throw up

i said enough is enough, i messaged John on facebook and i told him ..

Leave me alone, stop asking about me. If you don't stop this I'll have to call the guards

that was Jan 2015

John hasn't bothered me since and his father Christy hasn't bothered me since

almost 3 years later and i wonder did i make a mistake not telling the guards

why was John taking photos and why did he lie about it ?

why would his father try to intimidate me ?

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

For the day that's in it......

To My Daughter Betty, The Gift of God
In wiser days, my darling rosebud, blown
To beauty proud as was your mother's prime,
In that desired, delayed, incredible time,
You'll ask why I abandoned you, my own,
And the dear heart that was your baby throne,
To dice with death. And oh! they'll give you rhyme
And reason: some will call the thing sublime,
And some decry it in a knowing tone.
So here, while the mad guns curse overhead,
And tired men sigh with mud for couch and floor,
Know that we fools, now with the foolish dead,
Died not for flag, nor King, nor Emperor,—
But for a dream, born in a herdsman's shed,
And for the secret Scripture of the poor.

I didn't know that poem, but the entire poem sums up where i am at with the whole glorification ('the dream') quotient surrounding the poppy.

'Know that we fools, now with the foolish dead,
Died not for flag, nor King, nor Emperor,—
But for a dream, born in a herdsman's shed,
And for the secret Scripture of the poor.'

What a damnation of warmongers those lines are.

Timberrrrrrrr

IRSH MAN wrote: »

there was a fella i went to school with his name was John

after i finished Tarbert Comprehensive i got a job in Kerry Group Listowel

John was a guest in my flat

at that time John had been working in England so we were talking about working abroad etc

i went into another room to get a dvd when i came back i saw John was using his phone to take photos of my television

before he left we had the following exchange ..

Will you do me a favor ?
if i can ..
will you delete those photos ?
what photos ?
do you want me to call the Guards John ?

as soon as i mentioned the Gardaí he took out his phone, deleted the photos then he called me a "sad bastard"

he left and i stopped talking to him after that

days later i was outside Listowel cinema i was standing there when a vehicle pulled up it was John's father

Christy sat there staring at me

he stayed there for a while then he drove away

After my brother came home for christmas he went to the pub

John was there and he acted like nothing happened

He said to my brother "Tell Gerard i was askin for him "

when my brother came home and said that to me i felt like i was going to throw up

i said enough is enough, i messaged John on facebook and i told him ..

Leave me alone, stop asking about me. If you don't stop this I'll have to call the guards

that was Jan 2015

John hasn't bothered me since and his father Christy hasn't bothered me since

almost 3 years later and i wonder did i make a mistake not telling the guards

why was John taking photos and why did he lie about it ?

why would his father try to intimidate me ?

Was john making his own heroin from poppies? That would be the only reason that drivel would have any meaning to this thread

Atoms for Peace

NIMAN wrote: »

This guy has the right idea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41930507

"Now there's a lynch mob of tabloid journalists and Twitter enforcers ready to pounce on any infraction, such as appearing on TV without a poppy on," he says. "So now everyone who arrives at the TV studio gets handed a poppy to clip on their lapel like it's a microphone. What's the point of that? It's meaningless."

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You said the IRA didn't take part in torture, a complete lie as pointed out by the evidence. I could list multiple examples but it's a waste of time because it would just be whataboutery central and that bores the people, it's not entertainment to the general reader.

Would you do us all a favour and read the posts.

I said 'I see no evidence videos that they enjoyed doing it'.
You are complaining about the thread going to hell and then do that. 

When you decide not to apologise for misquoting maybe answer the question I asked?

Francie you must think everyone who reads this thread or this forum are as thick as pigsh*t. It's absolutely baffling to argue that the IRA either didn't take part in torture or enjoy it when the IRA had sadistic killers among them who did nothing more than enjoy murdering people, torturing people.

To use the argument that "Oh they aren't on video doing it, so that must be a point for my side" is hilarious but also very sad at the same time. It shows a complete lack of logic, a horrific argument to make, and proves absolutely nothing to do what you are trying to portray the British Army as.

Everyone knows the British Army used torture on combatants/terrorists. Do you actually think by pointing this out it somehow puts the IRA in a better light? It's a very peculiar argument to make but it could only be used on such monstrosity threads like these.

I don't know why you don't just admit you either support the IRA actions or have an admiration at the very least. It's just hiding in the shadows, putting out pro IRA arguments but not going the whole hog. At least I can admit my support for the British Army, my support for the RBL, my stance on capital punishment (hanging) for all sides who murdered innocent civilians.

You have documented evidence even that the IRA DID film torture of people. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SICK+PROVO+KILLERS+FILMED+LAST+DAYS+OF+TORTURE+VICTIM%3B+IRA+plans+to...-a060145307

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sister-ira-victim-who-tortured-10031154

Why would anyone argue or think that the IRA (A) Didn't film torture when the evidence suggests otherwise or (B) actually took part in torture in the first place. The evidence is as clear as day and yet some wish to portray them as nice guys, or guys who just murdered their victims (which they admittedly) without getting some sort of enjoyment out of it.

The opposite is the truth, you had the absolute scum of the earth in the UVF and IRA who murdered people and tortured people, got a thrill out of it, filmed it, butchered people like Lenny Murphy, actual psychopaths joined these organizations. To tell me that they didn't film it (why make that argument when it's false) or allude that they didn't enjoy the killing is again a very suspect account of what happened within these groups.

The likes of the RUC used torture like burning with cigarettes (on Loyalists too I may add), putting people in stressful positions etc. I have no doubt you had bastards within the RUC who enjoyed beating the crap out people. I won't come on here and just deny that when history backs it up. I don't know why some people can't do the same with the IRA.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Francie you must think everyone who reads this thread or this forum are as thick as pigsh*t. It's absolutely baffling to argue that the IRA either didn't take part in torture or enjoy it when the IRA had sadistic killers among them who did nothing more than enjoy murdering people, torturing people.

To use the argument that "Oh they aren't on video doing it, so that must be a point for my side" is hilarious but also very sad at the same time. It shows a complete lack of logic, a horrific argument to make, and proves absolutely nothing to do what you are trying to portray the British Army as.

Everyone knows the British Army used torture on combatants/terrorists. Do you actually think by pointing this out it somehow puts the IRA in a better light? It's a very peculiar argument to make but it could only be used on such monstrosity threads like these.

I don't know why you don't just admit you either support the IRA actions or have an admiration at the very least. It's just hiding in the shadows, putting out pro IRA arguments but not going the whole hog. At least I can admit my support for the British Army, my support for the RBL, my stance on capital punishment (hanging) for all sides who murdered innocent civilians.

You have documented evidence even that the IRA DID film torture of people. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SICK+PROVO+KILLERS+FILMED+LAST+DAYS+OF+TORTURE+VICTIM%3B+IRA+plans+to...-a060145307

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sister-ira-victim-who-tortured-10031154

Why would anyone argue or think that the IRA (A) Didn't film torture when the evidence suggests otherwise or (B) actually took part in torture in the first place. The evidence is as clear as day and yet some wish to portray them as nice guys, or guys who just murdered their victims (which they admittedly) without getting some sort of enjoyment out of it.

The opposite is the truth, you had the absolute scum of the earth in the UVF and IRA who murdered people and tortured people, got a thrill out of it, filmed it, butchered people like Lenny Murphy, actual psychopaths joined these organizations. To tell me that they didn't film it (why make that argument when it's false) or allude that they didn't enjoy the killing is again a very suspect account of what happened within these groups.

The likes of the RUC used torture like burning with cigarettes (on Loyalists too I may add), putting people in stressful positions etc. I have no doubt you had bastards within the RUC who enjoyed beating the crap out people. I won't come on here and just deny that when history backs it up. I don't know why some people can't do the same with the IRA.

Again, you can dissemble all you want on this.

I said, 'I have seen no videos of the IRA ENJOYING torture' in the same way that we have seen many many videos of British soldiers enjoying it.
If you know of such a video, please share it with us.

There is no argument in there at all, that A) The IRA did not torture and no claim that they DIDN'T enjoy it. Just that there is no video evidence that they did.
The overall point was, the IRA are gone, the BA are not and these videos keep coming. And the poppy honours that activity too.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Francie you must think everyone who reads this thread or this forum are as thick as pigsh*t. It's absolutely baffling to argue that the IRA either didn't take part in torture or enjoy it when the IRA had sadistic killers among them who did nothing more than enjoy murdering people, torturing people.

To use the argument that "Oh they aren't on video doing it, so that must be a point for my side" is hilarious but also very sad at the same time. It shows a complete lack of logic, a horrific argument to make, and proves absolutely nothing to do what you are trying to portray the British Army as.

Everyone knows the British Army used torture on combatants/terrorists. Do you actually think by pointing this out it somehow puts the IRA in a better light? It's a very peculiar argument to make but it could only be used on such monstrosity threads like these.

I don't know why you don't just admit you either support the IRA actions or have an admiration at the very least. It's just hiding in the shadows, putting out pro IRA arguments but not going the whole hog. At least I can admit my support for the British Army, my support for the RBL, my stance on capital punishment (hanging) for all sides who murdered innocent civilians.

You have documented evidence even that the IRA DID film torture of people. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SICK+PROVO+KILLERS+FILMED+LAST+DAYS+OF+TORTURE+VICTIM%3B+IRA+plans+to...-a060145307

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sister-ira-victim-who-tortured-10031154

Why would anyone argue or think that the IRA (A) Didn't film torture when the evidence suggests otherwise or (B) actually took part in torture in the first place. The evidence is as clear as day and yet some wish to portray them as nice guys, or guys who just murdered their victims (which they admittedly) without getting some sort of enjoyment out of it.

The opposite is the truth, you had the absolute scum of the earth in the UVF and IRA who murdered people and tortured people, got a thrill out of it, filmed it, butchered people like Lenny Murphy, actual psychopaths joined these organizations. To tell me that they didn't film it (why make that argument when it's false) or allude that they didn't enjoy the killing is again a very suspect account of what happened within these groups.

The likes of the RUC used torture like burning with cigarettes (on Loyalists too I may add), putting people in stressful positions etc. I have no doubt you had bastards within the RUC who enjoyed beating the crap out people. I won't come on here and just deny that when history backs it up. I don't know why some people can't do the same with the IRA.

Again, you can dissemble all you want on this.

I said, 'I have seen no videos of the IRA ENJOYING torture' in the same way that we have seen many many videos of British soldiers enjoying it.
If you know of such a video, please share it with us.

There is no argument in there at all, that A) The IRA did not torture and no claim that they DIDN'T enjoy it. Just that there is no video evidence that they did.
The overall point was, the IRA are gone, the BA are not and these videos keep coming. And the poppy honours that activity too.

What is the point of this point though? We know they had psychopaths who enjoyed torturing and murdering people. I don't understand the point of saying "Well we haven't seen a film of them enjoying it" as if it has any meaning whatsoever.