General Rugby Discussion II

stephen_n

Former Former wrote: »

The guy running the Twitter feed during a match is a nobody. If he was somebody, he'd be doing something more important during the match.

It's bad form but let's keep it in perspective. It's not really reflective of the coaches, the players or the club.

Well that bit clearly isn’t correct as it’s their official social media account. If that’s not reflective of the club I don’t know what is. The fact the tweet wasn’t deleted would suggest the club endorse it.

CatFromHue

Keith Wood and O'Driscoll on OTB tonight talking about playing injured, or being asked to, and using pain killers

it looks like painkillers are a big part of pre match rituals, or were at one stage

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

Keith Wood and O'Driscoll on OTB tonight talking about playing injured, or being asked to, and using pain killers

it looks like painkillers are a big part of pre match rituals, or were at one stage

Drico might have landed his aul lad in a spot of bother there.

Interested Observer

stephen_n wrote: »

Well that bit clearly isn’t correct as it’s their official social media account. If that’s not reflective of the club I don’t know what is. The fact the tweet wasn’t deleted would suggest the club endorse it.

In a past life I worked for a company with a fairly significant social media presence and they were very careful as to who they would allow tweet etc, because your are speaking for the company quite obviously.

sydthebeat

Interested Observer wrote: »

In a past life I worked for a company with a fairly significant social media presence and they were very careful as to who they would allow tweet etc, because your are speaking for the company quite obviously.

Im a member of a small junior club and we are very very careful as to what goes on social media, as its representative of the club.

we have quite an extension policy document on this.

Zzippy

CatFromHue wrote: »

Keith Wood and O'Driscoll on OTB tonight talking about playing injured, or being asked to, and using pain killers

it looks like painkillers are a big part of pre match rituals, or were at one stage

I played amateur sport to a reasonably sh1te level and I often had to take Difene to reduce swelling/pain enough to be able to play the next game, however taking it before every game, or on an ongoing basis is madness - I know a nephrologist who sees a lot of patients with kidney failure due to overuse of Difene.

Think Drico might have thrown a few people under the bus there!

stephen_n

Zzippy wrote: »

I played amateur sport to a reasonably sh1te level and I often had to take Difene to reduce swelling/pain enough to be able to play the next game, however taking it before every game, or on an ongoing basis is madness - I know a nephrologist who sees a lot of patients with kidney failure due to overuse of Difene.

Think Drico might have thrown a few people under the bus there!

Most of my last 10 years of playing junior rugby involved Difene before the game and Tramadol afterwards. I read the article this morning in the times and thought so what, sure that’s normal.

Former Former

Ummm, doesn't this mean Paul Kimmage had a point?

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Ummm, doesn't this mean Paul Kimmage had a point?

That's not physically possible.

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

Most of my last 10 years of playing junior rugby involved Difene before the game and Tramadol afterwards. I read the article this morning in the times and thought so what, sure that’s normal.

I preferred beer afterwards myself, but each to their own...

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

Ummm, doesn't this mean Paul Kimmage had a point?

It depends on whether you think it is performance enhancing.

Firstly - the vast majority of PED's are taken for training, not for the actual competition.

Secondly - his argument is that they are in fact performance enhancing, but whilst this is true in the context of making the player better, it's only because an injury is actively making them worse at that moment in time.

I always viewed painkillers as stopping something from getting worse as opposed to improving something albeit the height of my painkiller taking was a paracetamol the night before a race because I had a bit of a flu at the time!

He always had a point, what merit it had was where the debate was.

errlloyd

Is there a suggestion that some players are taking painkillers in anticipation of future pain rather than in compensation for existing pain? In which case it probably is a performance enhancing substance.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Is there a suggestion that some players are taking painkillers in anticipation of future pain rather than in compensation for existing pain? In which case it probably is a performance enhancing substance.

The discussion was very much more about existing pain as opposed to future pain but they left the door open to it potentially being the latter but didn't make any direct suggestion of it.

You would wonder what goes on in the Premiership. At least the IRFU takes player welfare somewhat seriously - looks like the opposite in England.

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

The discussion was very much more about existing pain as opposed to future pain but they left the door open to it potentially being the latter but didn't make any direct suggestion of it.

You would wonder what goes on in the Premiership. At least the IRFU takes player welfare somewhat seriously - looks like the opposite in England.

I'd have to listen again, but I thought BOD implied there was a few times he just took the Diphene out of habit.

Quin_Dub

errlloyd wrote: »

Is there a suggestion that some players are taking painkillers in anticipation of future pain rather than in compensation for existing pain? In which case it probably is a performance enhancing substance.

I think it's more that the taking of the tablets became habitual and not of necessity..

They get banged up and are feeling stiff and sore so take some anti-inflammatory drugs or pain killers before the next game or training.. that gets repeated a few times and now they are taking them "just in case" they feel less than 100%.

I know I personally went a few years struggling with a long-term Rotator cuff injury and was regularly taking anti-inflammatories and pain killers to help with the pain I'd feel after doing anything significant involving my shoulder.

But what I was also doing was saying things to myself like "I'm going to be doing a lot today that will probably make my shoulder hurt , I'll take the meds now before I leave the house so that I just avoid the inevitable pain that will come later ". In reality I may or may not have needed the tablets on that particular day , but it was just easier to take them "just in case".

So I can totally see an older player (a prop like I was for example) saying "every time I play these days my neck is stiff and sore after the game , let's just take the painkiller now so I stop it before it starts" - That's the kind of behaviour that needs to be policed better (not just in Pro-sport, but everywhere really)

Former Former

Deleted User wrote: »

The discussion was very much more about existing pain as opposed to future pain but they left the door open to it potentially being the latter but didn't make any direct suggestion of it.

You would wonder what goes on in the Premiership. At least the IRFU takes player welfare somewhat seriously - looks like the opposite in England.

IRFU takes player welfare seriously - so long as the national team doesn't suffer.

They will very happily send a half-injured player out for the national team, if he needs a bit of help to get onto the pitch, they'll gladly provide it. The IRFU are no different from any English club in this regard.

Zzippy

When I was younger I banged my knee up on a Sunday in a game, belt of a hurley, swollen to twice normal size within seconds. Turned out it was just severe bruising and swelling; a week of icing, intensive physio and Difene had me able to play a championship game the following weekend. But I'll always remember the physio asking me was I taking Difene, and saying "that stuff is great for a hangover, you should try it".

It's not hard to see why there's such a flippant attitude to it, "sure it's only an anti-inflammatory". Difene is powerful stuff, I've seen how effective it is. But anyone taking it on a daily basis, or as a preventative, should really be more informed about the long-term risks. Maybe it's a good thing this is coming out now, and it can be looked at...

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

IRFU takes player welfare seriously - so long as the national team doesn't suffer.

They will very happily send a half-injured player out for the national team, if he needs a bit of help to get onto the pitch, they'll gladly provide it. The IRFU are no different from any English club in this regard.

Is it a bad thing to push yourself through injury for an important game?

Not sure why the comparison to English clubs here

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is it a bad thing to push yourself through injury for an important game?

Apparently it is if your name is Paul Kimmage

Squidgy Black

Zzippy wrote: »

Apparently it is if your name is Paul Kimmage

I'm surprised we haven't heard from him already about this.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is it a bad thing to push yourself through injury for an important game?

Yes and no.

If you're not going to make it worse, if you're not opening yourself up to long-term damage, if you're not popping a load of painkillers, then no, not necessarily a bad thing.

The reality is that most players will play through some level of injury for good chunks of the season, we'd never field a team if we only picked box-fresh players. I think we all understand that.

It's when players feel that they have to go beyond that, or when the coaches are pressuring them to play, then we have problems. If anyone thinks the IRFU are better than anyone else in that regard, I think it's a bit naive to be honest.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not sure why the comparison to English clubs here

In my post?? Because there was a comparison to English clubs in the post I was replying to.

Buer

I had a very problematic back in years gone by. Was taking a few Difene one weekend and had a feed of pints the next day.

Words cannot describe the impact that this combination had on my digestive system. I wouldn't necessarily say that the bottom fell out of my world but I would readily admit that the world fell out of my bottom.

Lo and behold, when you actually read the packaging, one of the noted side effects is the trots. Didn't trust a fart for the next week and didn't trust Difene for the next decade.

Zzippy

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'm surprised we haven't heard from him already about this.

He has tweeted about it alright.

Buer wrote: »

I had a very problematic back in years gone by. Was taking a few Difene one weekend and had a feed of pints the next day.

Words cannot describe the impact that this combination had on my digestive system. I wouldn't necessarily say that the bottom fell out of my world but I would readily admit that the world fell out of my bottom.

Lo and behold, when you actually read the packaging, one of the noted side effects is the trots. Didn't trust a fart for the next week and didn't trust Difene for the next decade.

Nonsense. Dodgy pint!

Quin_Dub

Buer wrote: »

I had a very problematic back in years gone by. Was taking a few Difene one weekend and had a feed of pints the next day.

Words cannot describe the impact that this combination had on my digestive system. I wouldn't necessarily say that the bottom fell out of my world but I would readily admit that the world fell out of my bottom.

Lo and behold, when you actually read the packaging, one of the noted side effects is the trots. Didn't trust a fart for the next week and didn't trust Difene for the next decade.

Tramadol was the one that did for me - Was prescribed it by the consultant I was seeing before the surgery on my aforementioned shoulder.

I only ever took 1 Tablet ,went to bed and had my 1st pain free nights sleep in about 6 months.

However , woke up the next morning and I was almost incapable of walking , barely made the bathroom before being ill and spent the next 6 or 8 hours curled up in the foetal position on my bed believing that I might actually die.

Over the years I've probably taken most of the commonly prescribed pain-killers at one time or another , but I've never had a reaction like I had with Tramadol.. I never took them again and just put up with the pain for the final few weeks before my surgery..

dregin

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Tramadol was the one that did for me - Was prescribed it by the consultant I was seeing before the surgery on my aforementioned shoulder.

I only ever took 1 Tablet ,went to bed and had my 1st pain free nights sleep in about 6 months.

However , woke up the next morning and I was almost incapable of walking , barely made the bathroom before being ill and spent the next 6 or 8 hours curled up in the foetal position on my bed believing that I might actually die.

Over the years I've probably taken most of the commonly prescribed pain-killers at one time or another , but I've never had a reaction like I had with Tramadol.. I never took them again and just put up with the pain for the final few weeks before my surgery..

I was prescribed Tramadol when I broke my collarbone. Did a bit of reading and never ended up taking any of it. Reading this, I'm glad I didn't.

Broke the arm quite badly there a few years back. Was on every damn pain killer going after the surgery, opioid, difene, paracetamol the works.

Tummy was grand, didn't pitch wood for almost a week tho.

stephen_n

Strange people

Zzippy

Most cyclists in the pro peleton have been on Tramadol for years before races. It's an open secret, not yet banned by WADA.

Former Former

Zzippy wrote: »

Most cyclists in the pro peleton have been on Tramadol for years before races. It's an open secret, not yet banned by WADA.

The argument is that it's not a PED because it can't make you cycle faster or for longer.

That's true, in the classical sense of PED - but if you couldn't get on the bike without it, isn't it just a PED of a different kind?

And if it didn't enhance performance, why are so many cyclists taking it?

Squidgy Black

UCI are banning tramadol as of next year I believe, it's a bit mad how it slipped under their radar and WADA refused to add it to their list really.