General Rugby Discussion II

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

This is a bit strange, seems lowering the tackle height isn't the answer to concussions.

i wonder if ball carriers were going lower into contact to milk penalties?

The Lost Sheep

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Why would you be surprised tho? His record in rugby is pretty impressive.

Strange Club London Irish, both Kiss and Kidney had no experience of English rugby.

Has that not happened before where new coaching set ups are completely new to coaching in england. as some dont have directors of rugby or its different structure at top in that club

troyzer

sydthebeat wrote: »

i wonder if ball carriers were going lower into contact to milk penalties?

This^

The NFL had the same issue initially when they started to crack down on helmet contact. Ball carriers just started lowering their heads making it almost possible to tackle them without contacting their helmet thus drawing penalties.

They've changed it since but rugby isn't alone in really struggling to find a safer set of tackling laws which don't put an unfair burden of care on one of the two parties.

Quin_Dub

sydthebeat wrote: »

i wonder if ball carriers were going lower into contact to milk penalties?

troyzer wrote: »

This^

The NFL had the same issue initially when they started to crack down on helmet contact. Ball carriers just started lowering their heads making it almost possible to tackle them without contacting their helmet thus drawing penalties.

They've changed it since but rugby isn't alone in really struggling to find a safer set of tackling laws which don't put an unfair burden of care on one of the two parties.

The report said that there had been a reduction in head contact as a result of the change , but an increase in concussions.

So maybe the lower contact height lead to more of a "whiplash" effect leading to concussion?

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

i wonder if ball carriers were going lower into contact to milk penalties?

Don’t know, it just suggests being bent over going into the tackle is actually more likely to cause injury. It doesn’t really say anything about how many penalties were conceded for high tackles. Though I assume the data exists somewhere.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

Don’t know, it just suggests being bent over going into the tackle is actually more likely to cause injury. It doesn’t really say anything about how many penalties were conceded for high tackles. Though I assume the data exists somewhere.

That would be very worrying if lower tackles caused more head injuries. That would require seismic changes.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

That would be very worrying if lower tackles caused more head injuries. That would require seismic changes.

That’s what the article seemed to suggest anyway. I’m sure the full data will be made available soon.

CatFromHue

Data from 36 matches in November and December showed a 41% decrease in tackles making contact with the head or neck of an upright ball-carrier, but the concussion risk increased when both ball-carrier and tackler were bent at the waist.

It mightn't be players doing anything differently.

Players don't always run upright, there are times when they're bent at the waist to some degree. Pick and gos for example.

who_me

sydthebeat wrote: »

That would be very worrying if lower tackles caused more head injuries. That would require seismic changes.

"No tackle below the neck".

Problem solved.

Clegg

More transfer rumours, boys. According to Rugbypass London Irish are favourites to sign Waisake Naholo after the World Cup.

Rather amusingly Wasps are after him too. Putting the cart before the horse again. They're in desperate need of some good forwards rather than flashy outside backs.

troyzer

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/reports-plans-for-world-league-solidify/

I sincerely hope this is shot down. Demoting the Six Nations and World Cup and moving the former to pay TV is too far.

It would ruin rugby.

Tigerandahalf

It has been in the pipeline for a while. It is to bail out the SH unions. Unions up north are happy with the 6 Nations, full grounds. Sponsorship is shaky though, even moreso now with Brexit.

The real interesting thing is that a pay broadcaster (presumably Sky) want everything - 6 Nations, Rugby Championship and Autumn games. That would mean an end to individual unions controlling the autumn fixtures. That would be good as this year it was a mess with games overlapping and fans missing out.

The deal looks for a longer window (5 weeks for autumn internationals) with the top teams playing off. The clubs (French and English) won't agree unless they get a big wedge.

Clegg

Test rugby going pay per view will kill the game eventually.

awec

Even ignoring all the global season stuff, the 6 nations unions would sell the 6N to pay-tv tomorrow if they could get away with it. I think that's going to happen eventually.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Even ignoring all the global season stuff, the 6 nations unions would sell the 6N to pay-tv tomorrow if they could get away with it. I think that's going to happen eventually.

The IRFU know that is not politically viable for them to do. It’ll be listed if they do it, and keeping it off that list greatly increases the value of the rights.

troyzer

Moving to pay TV is a double edged sword. You get more TV money but your sponsorship money takes a huge hit.

Burkie1203

troyzer wrote: »

Moving to pay TV is a double edged sword. You get more TV money but your sponsorship money takes a huge hit.

6n is also the single biggest promotional tool for rugby in Ireland. It fills a massive gap in Feb/March which garners attention for the game year on year. The home games generate between 15 and 20m for the IRFU alone too.

troyzer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Moving to pay TV is a double edged sword. You get more TV money but your sponsorship money takes a huge hit.

6n is also the single biggest promotional tool for rugby in Ireland. It fills a massive gap in Feb/March which garners attention for the game year on year. The home games generate between 15 and 20m for the IRFU alone too.

I know it's a different sport but when F1 started moving to pay TV worldwide under CVC, viewership dropped. And as a result, so did sponsorship money.

F1 is obviously a sport much more reliant on sponsorship money, I'm just trying to show that taking the extra money and excluding a large portion of your audience is a calculated risk. One which the IRFU shouldn't take. It should be trying to broaden its appeal to a maximum possible audience. Take advantage of its form to grow the permanent fanbase which will still be there in ten years if we're having a bad year and battling for the wooden spoon.

Tigerandahalf

The 6 Nations has struggled for sponsorship in recent years. Taking it off fta wouldn't help that you would think. But if the rfu are struggling for cash they may be willing to sell their home games.

It is not clear yet how the rugby finals would work.

Eod100

You'd wonder how Eir are going to manage the fta games in RWC? Is it not a subscription channel as is? Streaming online?

icdg

Eod100 wrote: »

You'd wonder how Eir are going to manage the fta games in RWC? Is it not a subscription channel as is? Streaming online?

The same way they managed it in the last three World Cups - they have sublicensed a package of 14 games (the opener, all of Ireland’s pool games, and all knockout games) to RTE.

Tigerandahalf

icdg wrote: »

The same way they managed it in the last three World Cups - they have sublicensed a package of 14 games (the opener, all of Ireland’s pool games, and all knockout games) to RTE.

Did tv3 not show all the games in the last WC?

icdg

Sorry, they did. Setanta (as was) did have 2007 and 2011 and sublicensed a package each time (to TV3 in 2007 and RTE in 2011).

joseywhales

I am not familar with the challenges coming from pay tv but if it does inevitably happen I would like a deal where rugby clubs can air internationals, free of charge. At least the grassroots and volunteers should be protected from being excluded from watching their country play.

troyzer

By law, I think Irish internationals have to be aired on free TV.

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

By law, I think Irish internationals have to be aired on free TV.

World cup games

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

World cup games

Yeah, I just checked there. Six Nations games are on a deferred list. Which I presume means they could easily force it back onto free to air.

All that being said, I don't expect this proposal to get past world rugby. It undermines all of the current formal competitions and it benefits nobody except Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

Not that these unions should be ignored but much like it's ridiculous that the English premiership expects the calendar to revolve around them, it's also ridiculous to think the northern hemisphere should ditch its hard earned success to bail out the southern unions.

I do think that going forward, we could have a global calendar more favourable to the south as a compromise for retaining the current structure.

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, I just checked there. Six Nations games are on a deferred list. Which I presume means they could easily force it back onto free to air.

All that being said, I don't expect this proposal to get past world rugby. It undermines all of the current formal competitions and it benefits nobody except Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

Not that these unions should be ignored but much like it's ridiculous that the English premiership expects the calendar to revolve around them, it's also ridiculous to think the northern hemisphere should ditch its hard earned success to bail out the southern unions.

I do think that going forward, we could have a global calendar more favourable to the south as a compromise for retaining the current structure.

Sorry, just realised the obvious. Six Nations has to be kept on free to air but it doesn't have to be live hence deferred.

irishbucsfan

6 Nations games will go straight onto the list if they are ever sold to pay TV. It’s all a charade to increase the value of rights that I can’t believe really works (but who knows)

Burkie1203

irishbucsfan wrote: »

6 Nations games will go straight onto the list if they are ever sold to pay TV. It’s all a charade to increase the value of rights that I can’t believe really works (but who knows)

If they are listed FTA Live then the broadcasters will low ball their offer.