General Rugby Discussion II

Buer

Thrashssacre wrote: »

That is shocking, another of the many nails in the coffin of Aussie rugby at the moment, anyone have any idea what match they might be referring too? Ireland 2011 perhaps?

I would guess the summer they lost to Samoa at home or Scotland at home the following year. They were stinking against Samoa and a couple of tries were directly from very basic errors that were comedic. The Scotland game was just dire.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/SARugbymag/status/1104018875061096448?s=19

joseywhales

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SARugbymag/status/1104018875061096448?s=19

Sometimes you'd wonder if team should have a psychiatrist as well as a doctor.

I wonder just how bad the drugs problem is in South African rugby. I've heard privately some fairly hair raising stuff about PED's at schoolboy level but If I recall correctly I think South Africa also top the charts for detection at senior level.

I'd be amazed if any of it was institutional and that goes for all the Unions but I do wonder at times just how much if any of a blind eye is turned towards it.

Mike Oxlong

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder just how bad the drugs problem is in South African rugby. I've heard privately some fairly hair raising stuff about PED's at schoolboy level but If I recall correctly I think South Africa also top the charts for detection at senior level.

I'd be amazed if any of it was institutional and that goes for all the Unions but I do wonder at times just how much if any of a blind eye is turned towards it.

I don't think a blind eye is turned towards PED's in South African rugby (or elsewhere)...
but I don't think there is stringent enough testing (we all remember Johnny Holland's AMA here saying he'd never been tested)..that can't be allowed to continue imo....best get our house in order soon before WADA decide to make us a personal hobbyhorse

irishbucsfan

The two South Africans we've had here who were former drugs cheats both were actually taking the steroids well after they'd finished school. Both were up at Super Rugby level and realising then thatt they weren't big enough to make it (before going on to make careers off the back of their size!).

That makes sense to me. I'd say you're much more vulnerable to that pressure in your late teens than the schoolboy days.

Del Fava spoke openly about it and it seemed clearly that it wasn't happening through schoolboy rugby, he said he never spoke about it with any other players and was doing it on his own because he couldn't meet performance targets in his first year. He said the first person he spoke about it with at all was his own mother on the day he'd been tested.

So I don't think it's a systemic or institutional problem there, more of a cultural problem. We have the same thing in gyms in Ireland, I'd be surprised if there aren't some rugby players somewhere falling into the same trap.

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The two South Africans we've had here who were former drugs cheats both were actually taking the steroids well after they'd finished school. Both were up at Super Rugby level and realising then thatt they weren't big enough to make it (before going on to make careers off the back of their size!).

That makes sense to me. I'd say you're much more vulnerable to that pressure in your late teens than the schoolboy days.

Del Fava spoke openly about it and it seemed clearly that it wasn't happening through schoolboy rugby, he said he never spoke about it with any other players and was doing it on his own because he couldn't meet performance targets in his first year. He said the first person he spoke about it with at all was his own mother on the day he'd been tested.

So I don't think it's a systemic or institutional problem there, more of a cultural problem. We have the same thing in gyms in Ireland, I'd be surprised if there aren't some rugby players somewhere falling into the same trap.

I don't think you have it quite right here. Apparently what's happening recently is that Craven week is so important that the kids playing need to basically be adult sized to get noticed by the provincial academies.

So PED abuse is happening in schoolboys often encouraged by parents and teachers.

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

So PED abuse is happening in schoolboys often encouraged by parents and teachers.

I was more talking about things we have actual evidence for

stephen_n

So are the South Africans just a lot more efficient/diligent in their testing than we are?

osarusan

A question from the most casual of rugby followers here.

When a referee goes to the TMO, the comentators often (or at least used to) make something of a big deal about the exact wording of the question asked.

Two very common wordings are:

Try, yes or no?
Is there any reason I cannot award this try?

In terms of what the TMO is going to do, does the wording of these two questions (or any other variants) actually make any difference (like the commentators suggest it does)?

Mike Oxlong

osarusan wrote: »

A question from the most casual of rugby followers here.

When a referee goes to the TMO, the comentators often (or at least used to) make something of a big deal about the exact wording of the question asked.

Tow very common wordings are:

Try, yes or no?
Is there any reason I cannot award this try?

In terms of what the TMO is going to do, does the wording of these two questions (or any other variants) actually make any difference (like the commentators suggest it does)?

Any reason means that the try is a given, unless the TMO finds a definitive reason to deny it.
Yes or No means the TMO is going to have free reign to go thru the footage and come to his own conclusion

sydthebeat

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

Any reason means that the try is a given, unless the TMO finds a definitive reason to deny it.
Yes or No means the TMO is going to have free reign to go thru the footage and come to his own conclusion

No. They have changed all that this season.

https://www.world.rugby/news/369337?lang=en

The referee now is to make an on field decision and it's up to the tmo to see something to counter that.

Therefore there no more, try yes or No question.... Or any reason not to award the try.

The red now stats what his/her on field decision is, and it's up to the tmo to confirm or counter.

CatFromHue

yeah if the ref has seen the ball being grounded they tend to ask "is there any reason".

if they haven't a clue they just ask "try yes or no"

sydthebeat

CatFromHue wrote: »

yeah if the ref has seen the ball being grounded they tend to ask "is there any reason".

if they haven't a clue they just ask "try yes or no"

Have a read of the above link.... They've changed that protocol

osarusan

sydthebeat wrote: »

No. They have changed all that this season.

https://www.world.rugby/news/369337?lang=en

The referee now is to make an on field decision and it's up to the tmo to see something to counter that.

Therefore there no more, try yes or No question.... Or any reason not to award the try.

The red now stats what his/her on field decision is, and it's up to the tmo to confirm or counter.

My question comes after watching the late France try where the ball was bundled over the line but there was no view of any grounding. I as wondering, if the referee had asked "Try or no try?" , would it have been given as a try...


But your comments and link explain it, thanks.

sydthebeat

Yeah the ref now has to make an on field decision

Eod100

Just looking there, there's only 5 points between 5th Sale and 10th Leicester in Premiership. Looks like top 4 will stay as is, but could be a battle for last 2 Champions Cup places.

Buer

Tuilagi re-signs with Leicester. Panic over for the Tigers and Racing will have to go looking elsewhere for their next big name.

Eod100

Buer wrote: »

Tuilagi re-signs with Leicester. Panic over for the Tigers and Racing will have to go looking elsewhere for their next big name.

Will be interesting to see if either/both are playing Champions Cup rugby next season. Leicester currently 10th, Racing 7th.

Buer

Eod100 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see if either/both are playing Champions Cup rugby next season. Leicester currently 10th, Racing 7th.

Racing have a very handy run in. Away wins are hard to come by in France but their remaining away games are against Agen, Perpignan, Pau, Clermont and Grenoble i.e. the bottom four plus Clermont. They could conceivably win four of those particularly with their injuries clearing up.

I reckon they'll make the playoffs with room to spare and be in the mix for the title.

Leicester have four of their last six matches at home so will probably be close to making it too. If they just win those 4, they'll be thereabouts.

jr86

Buer wrote: »

Tuilagi re-signs with Leicester. Panic over for the Tigers and Racing will have to go looking elsewhere for their next big name.

Huge for England

He's in absolutely smashing shape at the moment and perhaps playing the Rugby of his life. If he can keep fit RWC 2023 is definitely achievable also

Eod100

Buer wrote: »

Racing have a very handy run in. Away wins are hard to come by in France but their remaining away games are against Agen, Perpignan, Pau, Clermont and Grenoble i.e. the bottom four plus Clermont. They could conceivably win four of those particularly with their injuries clearing up.

I reckon they'll make the playoffs with room to spare and be in the mix for the title.

Leicester have four of their last six matches at home so will probably be close to making it too. If they just win those 4, they'll be thereabouts.

Yeah I'd be confident enough of Racing making it. Not so sure about Leicester, 5th and 6th seems highest they could get to and even then might be a struggle

thomond2006

Sean Dougall, Paddy Butler and Dave Foley will all be let go by Pau in the summer.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sean Dougall, Paddy Butler and Dave Foley will all be let go by Pau in the summer.

Jesus. That's a bit of a cull. Butler was interviewed by Murray Kinsella the other day there though and he said there was nothing sorted for him for the next couple of years although he'd like to remain in France. Obviously he was hinting at being let go. He also said Foley hasn't played as much as he'd like this season due to iniury.

Unfortunately for Butler and Dougall, there's a rake of back row players knocking around the provinces although there could be a gap for one of them in Ulster?

Foley would be a similar situation and Ulster could be a potential destination although I imagine all three might want to continue in France.

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sean Dougall, Paddy Butler and Dave Foley will all be let go by Pau in the summer.

That's a pity. Hopefully they will find clubs in France if that's where they want to stay. Saw James Coughlan will be forwards coach with Provence next season. Wonder would there be a need for any of them there.

thomond2006

James Coughlan is also leaving to become forwards coach at Provence Rugby, based in Aix-en-Provence.

I'd say any of them would be useful as squad filler, particularly in a RWC season.

The 3 lads at Pau will want to get onto London Irish sharpish

sydthebeat

Yet another All Black has signed for Top 14 side Pau according to French newspaper Midi Olympique. The paper has reported that Pau have recruited Highlanders co-captain Luke Whitelock on a three-year deal.


The brother of Crusaders captain and one of the All Blacks vice-captains Sam Whitelock, Luke made his test debut back in 2012 but spent an extended period out of the All Blacks before returning to the squad during the 2017 November tests and started all the June test against France in 2018.

If Whitelock were to sign for Pau he would join fellow Highlanders co-captain Ben Smith at the club. Whitelock's move would compensate the loss of the likes of Steffon Armitage (33 years), Paddy Butler (28 years old), Sean Dougall (29 years old) and Ben Mowen (34) who will all reportedly leave the club at the end of the season.

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/pau-bring-in-whitelock-to-replace-departing-stars---reports/614847

Buer

I'd have thought Luke Whitelock would want to back himself to become a regular for NZ with Read departing.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

I'd have thought Luke Whitelock would want to back himself to become a regular for NZ with Read departing.

With Hansen going I think there a possibility that Akira ioane could get a shot at taking the Jersey long term.

But maybe taufua will take it, or an outside shot of seu.

As a Highlanders fan, I don't think luke whitelock is good enough to be the kiwi 8