General Rugby Discussion II

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Good question.

What I told you I was going to take a knife to the genitals of an 8-day-old boy? I'm not a doctor, there's no anaesthetic, and loads of people are going to come watch. That's my religion, it's all here in this book and if you don't like it you're an intolerant bigot.

So can we agree that doing things in the name of religion buys you a lot of leeway to do things that would otherwise be considered unacceptable?



I would welcome such a line and the further we can move that line towards the absolute removal of religion from daily life, the better as far as I'm concerned. If Folau gets told that his 'religious belief' stance is unacceptable, I'll be absolutely delighted.

As an atheist with kids in a Catholic school, I live with other people's religion being forced down my throat every day. The f**king line can't move quick enough as far as I'm concerned.

However, I don't think that posting some nonsense on Instagram is so damaging to anyone else that it meets the threshold for a guy losing his livelihood. That's what ARU have to prove and it's a big job for them to do so IMO.

There would be absolutely nothing stopping an employer in most countries around here from letting someone go if they made a clear policy against glorifying circumcision and then that person then went on to continue to post in favour of it on their social media.

You’re just giving examples of other situations where this in theory would apply the exact same.

Just as an employee of a butcher couldn’t convert to a religion that prevents them from working with beef/meat and then expect to keep their job due to religious freedom.

The right to practice religion is not as anti-employer as you think it is. In this case the ARU have a very easy case to make. Even easier than than a normal employer like you or me because they have special status as a national governing body of a sport. Unless Australian law is massively different to our own, I’ve never worked there for more than a couple of months but I’m pretty sure it isn’t.

sydthebeat

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not missing anything. I'm looking at things from a different perspective.

i wasnt speaking of you specifically there... i fully understand that you are offering the alternative argument, even if you dont agree at all with it.

what im doing, and others, is offering the counter argument to your points.

does folau believe he has a legitimate claim ? of course he does.
However i believe the ARUs argument is superior, both legally and morally.

Former Former

sydthebeat wrote: »

i wasnt speaking of you specifically there... i fully understand that you are offering the alternative argument, even if you dont agree at all with it.

what im doing, and others, is offering the counter argument to your points.

does folau believe he has a legitimate claim ? of course he does.
However i believe the ARUs argument is superior, both legally and morally.

I really hope it is. I certainly agree with the moral superiority of it, it's the legal one I'm not so sure of.

But even the very act of sacking him is a moral stand. Even if they end up having to pay him a settlement, I think it will still count as a win for ARU.

thebaz

However, when Diageo was asked by the Independent.ie if it had concerns about O’Brien signing for London Irish given the probe into the allegations, the drink’s giant did not comment.


Hardly surprising given they make the liquid that makes you do dumb things.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

I really hope it is. I certainly agree with the moral superiority of it, it's the legal one I'm not so sure of.

But even the very act of sacking him is a moral stand. Even if they end up having to pay him a settlement, I think it will still count as a win for ARU.

I think a settlement is the most likely outcome here. Just to make it go away and prevent it from becoming a big story that turns people against anyone involved

Faugheen

I honestly don't see how the ARU loses here.

They warned him before, he did it again, they sacked him.

We can get into his religious beliefs and what have you but they are exactly that, beliefs. What he posted has no factual basis around it, therefore is hate speech, and his comments brought his employer (the ARU) into disrepute.

Squidgy Black

thebaz wrote: »

However, when Diageo was asked by the Independent.ie if it had concerns about O’Brien signing for London Irish given the probe into the allegations, the drink’s giant did not comment.


Hardly surprising given they make the liquid that makes you do dumb things.

Speaking of Diageo, they came out in the press to say they're meeting with London Irish to discuss the Jackson signing as "it doesn't align with their values".

c.p.w.g.w

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Speaking of Diageo, they came out in the press to say they're meeting with London Irish to discuss the Jackson signing as "it doesn't align with their values".

Yeah pissing on an unconscious man is within their value system

salmocab

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Yeah pissing on an unconscious man is within their value system

Who pissed on an unconscious man?

sydthebeat

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Yeah pissing on an unconscious man is within their value system

DIAGEO are responsible for more "pissing on unconscious men" than youd believe

:D:D:D:D:D

salmocab

sydthebeat wrote: »

DIAGEO are responsible for more "pissing on unconscious men" than youd believe

:D:D:D:D:D

Mainly themselves to be fair

sydthebeat

salmocab wrote: »

Mainly themselves to be fair

exactly

2smiggy

Gatland confirmed next Lions coach

swiwi_

2smiggy wrote: »

Gatland confirmed next Lions coach

In other news scientists confirm the world is indeed round.

Exclamation Marc

swiwi_ wrote: »

In other news scientists confirm the world is indeed round.

Well that would be big news....

It's actually an oblate spheroid, not round.

stephen_n

swiwi_ wrote: »

In other news scientists confirm the world is indeed round.

Well actually it’s not round it’s an oblate spheroid.

Sh1t beat me to it ^^

Exclamation Marc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Well that would be big news....

It's actually an oblate spheroid, not round.

stephen_n wrote: »

Well actually it’s not round it’s an oblate spheroid.

Sh1t beat me to it ^^

part time punk

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Speaking of Diageo, they came out in the press ".

Did no one tell Diageo they're going to burn in hell

razorblunt

2smiggy wrote: »

Gatland confirmed next Lions coach

Tough shít Scotland!

Burkie1203

Diageo have bailed London Irish

troyzer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Diageo have bailed London Irish

Yeah, just confirmed there. London Irish really made a balls of this one.

sydthebeat

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Diageo have bailed London Irish

will they be hard to replace i wonder?

Christy42

sydthebeat wrote: »

will they be hard to replace i wonder?

I imagine someone will fill the place but the price tag has gone down as everyone knows that London Irish don't exactly have their pick of sponsors anymore. Plus companies will have to weigh the benefits of the advertising vs the bad PR from Jackson.

Peregrine

sydthebeat wrote: »

will they be hard to replace i wonder?

I would say so. Any company that values good PR will try to stay away now. The advantages would have to be enormous for a company to not only hand over money but take bad publicity back in return.


LI really messed up here.

thomond2006

LI could be in big trouble. When a big name like Diageo bails then the smaller names may follow suit by default.

irishbucsfan

This is snowballing now. Their hand was forced by the other sponsor dropping out and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve forced the hand of others in turn

Former Former

London Irish's immediate problem is not replacing Diageo, it's keeping the other sponsors they already have.

Hurrache

Almost 30 years of sponsorship gone. It's a complicated situation with obvious repercussions.

joseywhales

Definitely noone in the business of selling alcohol can be associated with them now

All My Stars Aligned

Am delighted Diageo have walked away from LI. Am I right in saying Cash Converters have done the same? Best thing LI could do is pay PJ's contract off and cut him loose.