General Rugby Discussion II

Squidgy Black

The cash converters sponsorship deal ending was one thing, but a sponsor the size of diageo cutting the cord sends a fairly big statement. Would imagine the rest of the sponsors will be having the same conversations internally and also with LI as to whether they're going to continue with them.

I do find it slightly ironic though that the largest alcohol producer in the world, and the world's largest payday loan shark are taking the moral high ground.

Hurrache

Yeah, Cash Convertors had already pulled the plug.

Exclamation Marc

It's unfortunate really as the man shouldn't be punished indefinitely and he's simply the one who's shíte was aired in public. There are certainly many worse out there who have said worse but have never been exposed. Where's the line though? Who knows, it's the unsolvable question.

I hope LI retain him though, he deserves to have a career.

irishbucsfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The cash converters sponsorship deal ending was one thing, but a sponsor the size of diageo cutting the cord sends a fairly big statement. Would imagine the rest of the sponsors will be having the same conversations internally and also with LI as to whether they're going to continue with them.

I do find it slightly ironic though that the largest alcohol producer in the world, and the world's largest payday loan shark are taking the moral high ground.

Who are the payday loan shark? Do Cash converters do payday loans now?

There’s nothing inherently wrong or illegal about alcohol unless you’re Israel Folau!

All My Stars Aligned

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The cash converters sponsorship deal ending was one thing, but a sponsor the size of diageo cutting the cord sends a fairly big statement. Would imagine the rest of the sponsors will be having the same conversations internally and also with LI as to whether they're going to continue with them.

I do find it slightly ironic though that the largest alcohol producer in the world, and the world's largest payday loan shark are taking the moral high ground.

Ya, had to laugh at that.

AbusesToilets

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

It's unfortunate really as the man shouldn't be punished indefinitely and he's simply the one who's shíte was aired in public. There are certainly many worse out there who have said worse but have never been exposed. Where's the line though? Who knows, it's the unsolvable question.

I hope LI retain him though, he deserves to have a career.

Twitter activism at its finest.

Squidgy Black

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Who are the payday loan shark? Do Cash converters do payday loans now?

There’s nothing inherently wrong or illegal about alcohol unless you’re Israel Folau!

Yeah they've done them for years as well as the whole pawning business.

All My Stars Aligned

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Twitter activism at its finest.

FFS, did you not read the content of those Whats App messages?

It's nothing whatsoever to do with Twitter activism but more to do about not wanting to have your brand connected to the employer of a person of the character that would be involved in such behavior.
I sincerely hope the rest of LI sponsors follow suit.

wowy

Not really surprised by Diageo's action, but it's the cynical, opportunistic hypocrisy that annoys me.

Manu Tuilagi was convicted of assaulting police officers in 2015, and Joe Marler was banned for 2 matches and fined by World Rugby for calling Samson Lee a "Gypsy Boy". Assault and bigotry/racism presumably must align with Diageo's values as Guinness remain a sponsor of the RFU.

Unless Diageo absolutely clear house on their sponsorships/partnerships across the board to remove any associations with unsavoury or unpopular individuals, they don't deserve praise for being on a "values" high horse in this case.

Exclamation Marc

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

FFS, did you not read the content of those Whats App messages?

It's nothing whatsoever to do with Twitter activism but more to do about not wanting to have your brand connected to the employer of a person of the character that would be involved in such behavior.
I sincerely hope the rest of LI sponsors follow suit.

People are allowed to atone for their mistakes and redeem themselves. There has to be a point where people move on and let him have a career. There are far worse characters in rugby but this one was exposed due to a flawed legal system.

Nobody walked away from Sarries when Billy V expressed homophobic views. The man deserves a career and was found innocent by a trial of his peers.

Keeping it on rugby though so it doesn't stray into AH territory, I find it strange that they've pulled out now. As someone else said, surely it was mooted and the waters were tested presigning. I do hope he is retained. And on a broader note am looking forward to seeing LI this year with all their new signings as they've been pretty shrewd.

Is there any movement on the Premiership structure as regards promotion/relegation?

Birdie Num Num

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Twitter activism at its finest.

Without social media I doubt it would have happened. A lot of exposure for Diageo here. Pure gold as far as they are concerned. Were they the main sponsor of London Irish?

is_that_so

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Without social media I doubt it would have happened. A lot of exposure for Diageo here. Pure gold as far as they are concerned. Were they the main sponsor of London Irish?

Hoist with his own petard as they say.

salmocab

Diageo knew in May apparently. I’d imagine they weren’t bothered until social media got on board.

is_that_so

salmocab wrote: »

Diageo knew in May apparently. I’d imagine they weren’t bothered until social media got on board.

May is not even 2 weeks ago! The wheels of giant corporations can move very slowly.

Podge_irl

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Keeping it on rugby though so it doesn't stray into AH territory, I find it strange that they've pulled out now. As someone else said, surely it was mooted and the waters were tested presigning. I do hope he is retained. And on a broader note am looking forward to seeing LI this year with all their new signings as they've been pretty shrewd

Their hand was partly forced by another sponsor who apparently withdrew for completely separate reasons deciding to take the opportunity for grandstanding and adopting a dubious moral high ground which drew attention to their own sponsorship. One of those things that could have worked out but just didn’t - without this I think it was a couple week story at the start of the season then forgotten.

Doesn’t help LI that two of their biggest signings have hit very different problems.

is_that_so

Podge_irl wrote: »

Their hand was partly forced by another sponsor who apparently withdrew for completely separate reasons deciding to take the opportunity for grandstanding and adopting a dubious moral high ground which drew attention to their own sponsorship. One of those things that could have worked out but just didn’t - without this I think it was a couple week story at the start of the season then forgotten.

Doesn’t help LI that two of their biggest signings have hit very different problems.

With SOB not playing for a good few months it'll be long gone by the time he appears. I'd wonder though how much mileage they might get from him. To me he's as much a one season imminent retiree as a three season great servant.

irishbucsfan

If Diageo knew about the signing in advance then it’s completely possible Cash Converters did as well.

bilston

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

FFS, did you not read the content of those Whats App messages?

It's nothing whatsoever to do with Twitter activism but more to do about not wanting to have your brand connected to the employer of a person of the character that would be involved in such behavior.
I sincerely hope the rest of LI sponsors follow suit.

Yeah, did you? Who were they from?

Birdie Num Num

is_that_so wrote: »

May is not even 2 weeks ago! The wheels of giant corporations can move very slowly.

Probably need to put their finger in the air and see what way the wind is blowing first.

Stheno

As most will know I'm female.

While I found details that came out during the trial distasteful, and while Jackson did not behave particularly well after the trial he then moved on, appears to have taken the consequences on the chin and many months later is still vilified.

I genuinely don't understand this, we all deserve a second chance.

In 20 years time if he has a stellar career and is on a coaching ticket will this still be an issue?

I work in a very male dominated environment so maybe that colours my opinion but I'm not sure

bilston

I guess London Irish have stood firm here and that is why Diageo bailed.

I'll say this, Jackson owes London Irish and Declan Kidney a really really big season

Larbre34

Stheno wrote: »

As most will know I'm female.

While I found details that came out during the trial distasteful, and while Jackson did not behave particularly well after the trial he then moved on, appears to have taken the consequences on the chin and many months later is still vilified.

I genuinely don't understand this, we all deserve a second chance.

In 20 years time if he has a stellar career and is on a coaching ticket will this still be an issue?

I work in a very male dominated environment so maybe that colours my opinion but I'm not sure

Fair enough, and your point is both reasoned and reasonable, but if you showed your post to someone who just landed from Mars and knew nothing of the trial, they'd say 'so what was he convicted for and how long did he get?'

It cannot be argued that his personal conduct was anything other than unacceptable and reputation damaging (would that we should all be perfect for our whole lives), but we need to stop talking in terms of offering second chances to people who haven't been convicted of any crime, he is as entitled to pursue a living in peace as any of us.

Whether Diageo can, therefore, uphold their stance legally and without compensation to Irish is a matter for the Club to pursue.

Squidgy Black

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Is there any movement on the Premiership structure as regards promotion/relegation?

There was a proposal last month brought to the RFU to expand to 13 teams but there's been no movement on it since.

Christy42

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Twitter activism at its finest.

I mean is it any worse than linking their brand to a sport anyway?

It is all advertising at the end of the day. If Jackson isn't worth advertising then his career will suffer. Like anyone else.

Jackson is hardly the biggest hard luck story out there.

Former Former

Larbre34 wrote: »

Fair enough, and your point is both reasoned and reasonable, but if you showed your post to someone who just landed from Mars and knew nothing of the trial, they'd say 'so what was he convicted for and how long did he get?'

It cannot be argued that his personal conduct was anything other than unacceptable and reputation damaging (would that we should all be perfect for our whole lives), but we need to stop talking in terms of offering second chances to people who haven't been convicted of any crime, he is as entitled to pursue a living in peace as any of us.

Whether Diageo can, therefore, uphold their stance legally and without compensation to Irish is a matter for the Club to pursue.

It has been reported that sponsorship deals involved an increase in payment when LI got promoted but also a break clause if they didn't want to stump up.

As for second chances, Jackson has had two at this point. Perpignan took him on, he bailed on them and LI gave him another go.

Now as for Diageo, the reason sponsors get involved is for positive PR for their brand. They're not getting that now and the guy hasn't even pulled on a jersey yet, they have to get ahead of this. LI took a gamble, it doesn't look to have worked out.

Muligatawney

I understand people who are coming at this from the "he deserves a second chance" perspective but I think the difference between Jackson and Olding is interesting regarding that.

Obviously Jackson was of a much higher profile but he showed next to no contrition when he was cleared in court and threatened going down the legal route against anyone who continued to accuse him if I remember correctly? Comparatively Olding expressed that he was sorry about what happened even if he didn't think he'd broken the law etc.

That is to say I think people deserve a second chance but they have to earn it by showing they understand why their first chance didn't go their way.

AbusesToilets

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

FFS, did you not read the content of those Whats App messages?

It's nothing whatsoever to do with Twitter activism but more to do about not wanting to have your brand connected to the employer of a person of the character that would be involved in such behavior.
I sincerely hope the rest of LI sponsors follow suit.

He said distasteful things in a "private" chat. If that was the standard for people to warrant being exiled, Connacht would be running out of space in short notice. Tired of the attitude where people act like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. Dishonest virtue signaling.

He was found innocent by a jury who had access to all the information. I have sympathy for the woman involved, and would generally agree that those accused were shown in a poor light. At some point though, they have to be allowed continue their lives.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

FFS, did you not read the content of those Whats App messages?

It's nothing whatsoever to do with Twitter activism but more to do about not wanting to have your brand connected to the employer of a person of the character that would be involved in such behavior.
I sincerely hope the rest of LI sponsors follow suit.

He said distasteful things in a "private" chat. If that was the standard for people to warrant being exiled, Connacht would be running out of space in short notice. Tired of the attitude where people act like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. Dishonest virtue signaling.

He was found innocent by a jury who had access to all the information. I have sympathy for the woman involved, and would generally agree that those accused were shown in a poor light. At some point though, they have to be allowed continue their lives.

He was found not guilty. This isn't the same as being found innocent.

Of course he's allowed to continue with his life. He can stack shelves in Aldi. Nobody has an inalienable right to an extremely privileged and lucrative rugby career which is highly dependent on your value to sponsors who want positive brand association.

Squidgy Black

Paddy Irish whiskey responded to a Facebook post saying they'll be reviewing their sponsorship with LI in the upcoming weeks also. Image robbed from Twitter:

thecretinhop

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Twitter activism at its finest.

FFS, did you not read the content of those Whats App messages?

It's nothing whatsoever to do with Twitter activism but more to do about not wanting to have your brand connected to the employer of a person of the character that would be involved in such behavior.
I sincerely hope the rest of LI sponsors follow suit.

burning at the stake is that enough for you?
he should also be neutered for life so he cant pass on his genes.
lefties feminists and isis all hate i hope you haver never made a mistake because ye lot are determined to ruin a mans life over and over. not guilty?? means nothing to ye