General Rugby Discussion II

deezell

Anyway, enough of this, I'm going for a pin... tea, I'm going for tea.

Exclamation Marc

Bastereaud dropped from French 37 man WC squad, not even in the reserves. Replaced by Guituone and the squad even has three new caps.

Bit of a surprise really as although he's certainly regressing as a player, you'd think he'd still have something to offer and started four of five Six Nations games so is clearly someone who has figured into Brunels plans. He's off to pastures new post WC but that's hardly a factor surely.

Thrashssacre

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Bastereaud dropped from French 37 man WC squad, not even in the reserves. Replaced by Guituone and the squad even has three new caps.

Bit of a surprise really as although he's certainly regressing as a player, you'd think he'd still have something to offer and started four of five Six Nations games so is clearly someone who has figured into Brunels plans. He's off to pastures new post WC but that's hardly a factor surely.

Could be because he’s being shipped off to the states. They probably want all their players in Europe

sydthebeat

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Bastereaud dropped from French 37 man WC squad, not even in the reserves. Replaced by Guituone and the squad even has three new caps.

Bit of a surprise really as although he's certainly regressing as a player, you'd think he'd still have something to offer and started four of five Six Nations games so is clearly someone who has figured into Brunels plans. He's off to pastures new post WC but that's hardly a factor surely.

hes not good enough any more

Exclamation Marc

sydthebeat wrote: »

hes not good enough any more

I'd agree that he's not but to go from starting the last four Six Nations games to total absence from even reserves when under the same coach is an odd one.

Squidgy Black

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Bastereaud dropped from French 37 man WC squad, not even in the reserves. Replaced by Guituone and the squad even has three new caps.

Bit of a surprise really as although he's certainly regressing as a player, you'd think he'd still have something to offer and started four of five Six Nations games so is clearly someone who has figured into Brunels plans. He's off to pastures new post WC but that's hardly a factor surely.

Parra, Teddy Thomas and Antonio dropped as well. 4 of their most experienced players. New coach is clearing house.

mogwai81

I know Parra has an ankle injury. Is Teddy Thomas injured or dropped? He is incredibly hard to stop when he’s on form. Probably the best winger France have. Maybe he is still in trouble from the 6 Nations.

troyzer

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

sydthebeat wrote: »

hes not good enough any more

I'd agree that he's not but to go from starting the last four Six Nations games to total absence from even reserves when under the same coach is an odd one.

You do realise this is France, right?

It would be odd if these sort of things DIDN'T happen.

razorblunt

Coventry have signed Luke Wallace from Harlequins.
I know he's had his injury concerns and this probably an attempt to get a consistent run of games but he's a brilliant player. Way above Championship standard.

Squidgy Black

Wallabies look to have a massive exodus on their hands post RWC:

JAPAN

Bernard Foley (Kubota Spears), Quade Cooper (Kintetsu Liners), Christian Lealiifano (NTT Communications), Will Genia (Kintetsu Liners), Samu Kerevi (Suntory Sungoliath), David Pocock (Panasonic Wildknights).

ENGLAND

Nick Phipps (London Irish), Adam Coleman (London Irish), Sekope Kepu (London Irish), Curtis Rona (London Irish).

FRANCE

Rory Arnold (Toulouse), Sefanaia Naivalu (Stade Francais), Caleb Timu (Montpellier), Scott Higginbotham (Bordeaux), Duncan Paia'aua (Toulon).

IRELAND

Sam Carter (Ulster).

YET TO COMMIT

Kurtley Beale, Marika Koroibete, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Karmichael Hunt.

sydthebeat

Only really losing Kerevi, Coleman and Arnold as potential high caps going forward.

All the others are either at the end of their career or not good enough to be long term prospects.

Even the four mentioned as yet to commit are surplus to requirments for the same reasons as above.

Squidgy Black

sydthebeat wrote: »

Only really losing Kerevi, Coleman and Arnold as potential high caps going forward.

All the others are either at the end of their career or not good enough to be long term prospects.

Even the four mentioned as yet to commit are surplus to requirments for the same reasons as above.

Yeah they're mostly older players, but still a hell of a lot of senior players to lose. If you look at the sides who lined up in the rugby championship, they're losing Foley, Pocock, Coleman, Kepu, Genia, Arnold, Phipps and then Beale, Koroibete uncommitted yet. And of course Folau on top of that.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/brettgosper/status/1141386018614063105?s=19

is_that_so

Foxtrol wrote: »

You haven’t answered my question, who texted worse things in that thread - Jackson or Gilroy?

Calling out the mob (or sponsors for that matter) for being either uneducated, hypocritical, or lying about the reason for their outrage is not excusing any bad behaviour.

I've no idea what Gilroy said but I don't ever do comparisons on such dubious behaviour. Your issue seems to be the social media "mob" , whose behaviour is a given.

thomond2006

The Nations Championship idea is dead.

https://www.world.rugby/news/431488?lang=en

is_that_so

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yeah it's definitely a point of concern for the organisation regardless. They've a loyal fan base, but they've also jumped up to the next tier (they only had an average attendance of around 3000 in the championship) and they're moving to Brentford as well in 2020 so they'll be hoping to gain new supporters as well from that area so any bad PR that will turn prospective fans away potentially.

It's a huge gamble that they've taken. It could pay off, and they have a decent outhalf who could have a stormer of a season, and pull in decent crowds who don't care about his off field activities. Or else they could drive fans away, have an outhalf who buckles under all of the intense media reports around him, and continue to lose sponsors/not attract new businesses.

It's an interesting one, because they've signed an outhalf who they obviously think is worth the social media outlash to keep them afloat in the Premiership. But they also signed Stephen Myler who's a decent outhalf in his own right, so if they were to pander to their critics by paying out Jackson's contract they wouldn't be in a terrible position squad wise (other than no real quality backup if Myler gets injured). However from reading the LI forums, there seems to be a lot of support from their actual fans for him, and a significant bit of belief that he was a good rugby signing.

Attendance in the Premiership is very mixed anyway Some of them are not a whole lot better than LI. Attendance is likely to get a boost just by being in the top league anyway.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/12-premiership-rugby-clubs-ranked-2334314

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Nations Championship idea is dead.

https://www.world.rugby/news/431488?lang=en

it was admirable but very flawed... and way too weighted in favour of southern hemispehere powerhouses.

i would like to see world rugby put their efforts into providing a sustainable and attainable pathway for pacific islanders which results in them not having to leave their countries, or at least their continent.

the ground work, and importantly, fan interest, is already there.. they just need to make it economically viable.. perhaps with something like a super rugby team... though in the medium term super rugby is contracting rather than expanding.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Nations Championship idea is dead.

https://www.world.rugby/news/431488?lang=en

I'm a bit disappointed but at the same time there were many flaws in the design as well.

I think international rugby still needs to do something to expand beyond the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship.

CatFromHue

sydthebeat wrote: »

it was admirable but very flawed... and way too weighted in favour of southern hemispehere powerhouses.

i would like to see world rugby put their efforts into providing a sustainable and attainable pathway for pacific islanders which results in them not having to leave their countries, or at least their continent.

the ground work, and importantly, fan interest, is already there.. they just need to make it economically viable.. perhaps with something like a super rugby team... though in the medium term super rugby is contracting rather than expanding.

With the way the economies are in those countries I don't think World Rugby have any chance, unless they're willing to basically give the players the wages they'd get in France, at keeping those players in their home countries.

The 6 Nations and the RC are the equivalent of the Euro Championships and the Copa America/African Cup of Nations on football i.e. the continent championship tournament but they're played every year and not every number of years. There's not really room in the calendar to make these tournaments bigger by a number of teams, which is what would be needed.

So WR are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

troyzer

The only thing I don't understand is why Ireland were against relegation and Italy weren't.

Ireland haven't won the wooden spoon since 1998, before the Six Nations era. And they've never lost against Georgia who would still have to beat them in a playoff game.

PMC83

I wonder will this possibly mean the opening of the door to Georgia in the 6 nations? Even a two year trial or something would be great

troyzer

PMC83 wrote: »

I wonder will this possibly mean the opening of the door to Georgia in the 6 nations? Even a two year trial or something would be great

Georgia need to actually play and win some games against a Six Nations team first. They've never beaten any of them and have only played a Six Nations team 12 times. They've only played against France and Wales once.

The collapse of this championship should lead to a better pathway for tier 2 teams but ultimately they're still not ready.

PMC83

troyzer wrote: »

Georgia need to actually play and win some games against a Six Nations team first. They've never beaten any of them and have only played a Six Nations team 12 times. They've only played against France and Wales once.

The collapse of this championship should lead to a better pathway for tier 2 teams but ultimately they're still not ready.

Yeah I deffo hear you. Just a shame Georgia aren't getting these bigger games more often, so they at least get a chance to stake their claim.

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

The only thing I don't understand is why Ireland were against relegation and Italy weren't.

Ireland haven't won the wooden spoon since 1998, before the Six Nations era. And they've never lost against Georgia who would still have to beat them in a playoff game.

Ireland were within inches of last place in 2013

It’s completely selfish and self-serving by the IRFU but it’d be a huge financial liability to them to adopt relegation. They would never ever vote to open themselves up to relegation. They don’t care about benefits to anyone else if it means potentially harming Irish rugby. It’s the biggest problem with world rugby as it currently exists.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ireland were within inches of last place in 2013

It’s completely selfish and self-serving by the IRFU but it’d be a huge financial liability to them to adopt relegation. They would never ever vote to open themselves up to relegation. They don’t care about benefits to anyone else if it means potentially harming Irish rugby. It’s the biggest problem with world rugby as it currently exists.

This is the core of the matter. If turkeys knew about Christmas they'd all vote againsy it too. The whole things reeks of an attempt to buttress the Sanzaar teams.


Before anyone says we'd never lose to Georgia or Romania et al in a playoff, who would have thought the U.K. would vote to shoot themselves in both elbows, knees, ankles and balls?

AbusesToilets

I think a European Championship, set off cycle from the WC, say every 2 yrs would a good way of bringing the other European nation's into the fold. A short knock out tournament, to take the place of one June series of tests.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think a European Championship, set off cycle from the WC, say every 2 yrs would a good way of bringing the other European nation's into the fold. A short knock out tournament, to take the place of one June series of tests.

So, during the Lions?

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

So, during the Lions?

Sure, why not? Schedules could be managed to where they don't overlap, and Wales should be able to field their 2nds anyway.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

So, during the Lions?

Sure, why not? Schedules could be managed to where they don't overlap, and Wales should be able to field their 2nds anyway.

So add either even more test games or effectively just revive the Tbilisi cup?

Exclamation Marc

troyzer wrote: »

The only thing I don't understand is why Ireland were against relegation and Italy weren't.

Ireland haven't won the wooden spoon since 1998, before the Six Nations era. And they've never lost against Georgia who would still have to beat them in a playoff game.

Scotland, Wales and France have all finished bottom since the inception of the Six Nations, granted not in a long time. It would have been catastrophic if they were dumped out.

Relegation means that a serious slump in form could result in a serious threat to survival if relegation were brought in. It only takes 5 bad games and a union could be on deaths door and whilst it looks unlikely now, its impossible to rule out in the future.

Self protection is as obvious as day in Ireland voting how they did.