General Rugby Discussion II

swiwi_

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Scotland, Wales and France have all finished bottom since the inception of the Six Nations, granted not in a long time. It would have been catastrophic if they were dumped out.

Relegation means that a serious slump in form could result in a serious threat to survival if relegation were brought in. It only takes 5 bad games and a union could be on deaths door and whilst it looks unlikely now, its impossible to rule out in the future.

Self protection is as obvious as day in Ireland voting how they did.

It’s also the reason Wales voted for France and not Ireland to host the 2023 RWC. What goes around comes around. Some Irish fans none to happy about Wales looking after their own interests but more than happy for Ireland to do so. Such is human nature.

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

So add either even more test games or effectively just revive the Tbilisi cup?

More or less, though give it a higher profile.

Former Former

Everyone is looking after their own interests.

Surely no one believes that the SANZAAR unions give two shytes about the tier 2 countries? I mean, come on.

If this had suited the NH unions, they'd have backed it. If it hadn't been a massive win for the SH, it would never have been proposed.

We're all as bad as each other, let's be very clear on that

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Everyone is looking after their own interests.

Surely no one believes that the SANZAAR unions give two shytes about the tier 2 countries? I mean, come on.

If this had suited the NH unions, they'd have backed it. If it hadn't been a massive win for the SH, it would never have been proposed.

We're all as bad as each other, let's be very clear on that

It was completely lopsided. Basically no risk of relegation for the south who would also see a huge cash injection. Meanwhile the north would have to make seismic changes to the world's oldest international tournament and risk financial ruin.

And it probably still wouldn't have fixed anything. If the problem is that the southern hemisphere doesn't have enough money, why would giving the south and the north an equal cash sum lead to more balance?

BonnieSituation

One thing I've always wanted to see is the bottom team in the 6N just play the Nation's Cup Winners (or whatevers it's called today) every year by right.

Relegation can be miles off but just to have the game happen so it becomes part of the calendar.

Exclamation Marc

BonnieSituation wrote: »

One thing I've always wanted to see is the bottom team in the 6N just play the Nation's Cup Winners (or whatevers it's called today) every year by right.

Relegation can be miles off but just to have the game happen so it becomes part of the calendar.

I think it would be good to see but all it would do is further support calls for relegation if the Nations Cup Winners won.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/bencoles_/status/1141703712093691904?s=19

Exclamation Marc

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bencoles_/status/1141703712093691904?s=19

I've a feeling he'll raise money pretty handily. Any ruling in his favour would have massive consequences in Australia and some might view it as a chance to test the waters in that regard.

kuang1

The next video that YouTube suggests I watch after Folau's appeal for cash is "The rise of psychedelic truffles in Amsterdam".

I chortled.

Exclamation Marc

kuang1 wrote: »

The next video that YouTube suggests I watch after Folau's appeal for cash is "The rise of psychedelic truffles in Amsterdam".

I chortled.

Sign me up!

"Without fear of discrimination in the workplace"

Like being condemned to hell and called a sinner over your sexuality?

The lack of self awareness is absolutely staggering.

Folau can completely get fcuked. I hope he is left penniless.

Exclamation Marc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I've a feeling he'll raise money pretty handily. Any ruling in his favour would have massive consequences in Australia and some might view it as a chance to test the waters in that regard.

That he's resorting to a public appeal might suggest a different outlook.

No one is doing this probono clearly, no major religions will endorse his brand of bigotry (sorry religion) and I'm not sure commercial interests will want the publicity.

A right wing political movement or money from American evangelicals maybe but I wouldn't be so sure anyone will come to his aid, he's quite possibly too far from mainstream to be worth defending.

The Lost Sheep

CatFromHue wrote: »

With the way the economies are in those countries I don't think World Rugby have any chance, unless they're willing to basically give the players the wages they'd get in France, at keeping those players in their home countries.

The 6 Nations and the RC are the equivalent of the Euro Championships and the Copa America/African Cup of Nations on football i.e. the continent championship tournament but they're played every year and not every number of years. There's not really room in the calendar to make these tournaments bigger by a number of teams, which is what would be needed.

So WR are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Work with US and try link in with Hawaii and have team based there and get big companies to help fund it?
There isnt room in calendar to expand them every year in terms of 6 nations but relegation isnt answer either right now at least.

troyzer wrote: »

The only thing I don't understand is why Ireland were against relegation and Italy weren't.

Ireland haven't won the wooden spoon since 1998, before the Six Nations era. And they've never lost against Georgia who would still have to beat them in a playoff game.

Potential of relegation. IRFU wouldnt want any of bigger sides lose out and not play them any year

PMC83 wrote: »

I wonder will this possibly mean the opening of the door to Georgia in the 6 nations? Even a two year trial or something would be great

No chance when side at bottom needs 6 nations for funding sport at all levels each year

troyzer wrote: »

Georgia need to actually play and win some games against a Six Nations team first. They've never beaten any of them and have only played a Six Nations team 12 times. They've only played against France and Wales once.

The collapse of this championship should lead to a better pathway for tier 2 teams but ultimately they're still not ready.

Georgia. Romania and others need far more regular games against 6 nations first but the collapse of this proposal will not necessarily lead to a better pathway.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think a European Championship, set off cycle from the WC, say every 2 yrs would a good way of bringing the other European nation's into the fold. A short knock out tournament, to take the place of one June series of tests.

Taking place in june series wouldnt help SH sides though if no european sides went down to play there. work something to have 5 weeks of internationals in november and mix of southern hemisphere games and european games as a compromise.

Burkie1203

Going well

https://twitter.com/Howgozza/status/1141790069604454400?s=19

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Going well

https://twitter.com/Howgozza/status/1141790069604454400?s=19

Hold tight until the not insignificant amount of wealthy, extremely mean spirited yanks get online.

If it does end up being a paltry amount it will actually send a pretty strong message that even Folau's church might actually hear considering there is money and donations involved. Plenty of the less committed folks would lose their appetite at a significant public rejection - Folau really went all in on this and may in fact be very reliant on it.

Squidgy Black

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if he meets his funding. Just look at the comments on his Instagram or other social media pages. There's a lot of people, be it other Pacific Islanders or just people who are really strict Christians who support him.

Former Former

He's gone from $3000 to $7500 in less than an hour since the above tweet.

Lads posting the link trying to call him out or take the piss are doing Israel's job for him. It's mad how little people understand social media.

Former Former

Deleted User wrote: »

No one is doing this probono clearly, no major religions will endorse his brand of bigotry (sorry religion) and I'm not sure commercial interests will want the publicity.

A right wing political movement or money from American evangelicals maybe but I wouldn't be so sure anyone will come to his aid, he's quite possibly too far from mainstream to be worth defending.

No major religions, only obscure little cults like Catholicism and Islam.

They won't pay his legal bills but they endorse his beliefs. I think that's worth keeping in mind when we're slating him for being whatever. He's not that far from mainstream at all, he's just more vocal about it.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Hold tight until the not insignificant amount of wealthy, extremely mean spirited yanks get online.

If it does end up being a paltry amount it will actually send a pretty strong message that even Folau's church might actually hear considering there is money and donations involved. Plenty of the less committed folks would lose their appetite at a significant public rejection - Folau really went all in on this and may in fact be very reliant on it.

I would put a very big bet on the fact that it will not get a paltry amount

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

No major religions, only obscure little cults like Catholicism and Islam.

They won't pay his legal bills but they endorse his beliefs. I think that's worth keeping in mind when we're slating him for being whatever. He's not that far from mainstream at all, he's just more vocal about it.

I can't believe I'm going to defend the church here, but whilst their cannon overlaps you don't hear that extremism from Rome or most priests - bar the occasional banjo. I don't have enough proximity to Islam in developed countries to comment one way or the other.

I went to as "Catholic" a Catholic school as you can get, and in my last year (which was before the millennium) our principal - a priest, told us that statistically around 20 of our year will be gay and that we could point them out and mock them, but we might regret that a lot and he'd urge us to not treat anyone any differently.

There was definitely a lot of homophobia in my school and I don't credit that statement with the fact that two of our year came out that summer - but I do credit it with the universally positive reaction from everyone. Again, I don't want to defend the church - but I can't shake the impression that they are removed from this rhetoric for the most part.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would put a very big bet on the fact that it will not get a paltry amount

I was reading about how these funds earn and the more common fund trends and there are common variables which make the first 48 hours extremely important for the vast majority of funds. Plenty of things can mitigate that but it is the norm.

You could be entirely correct in your expectation, I'm no authority on how it will perform - I'm mostly just hoping it completely flops. It would hit home the message for people right on the cusp of being more open minded.

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't believe I'm going to defend the church here, but whilst their cannon overlaps you don't hear that extremism from Rome or most priests - bar the occasional banjo. I don't have enough proximity to Islam in developed countries to comment one way or the other.

I went to as "Catholic" a Catholic school as you can get, and in my last year (which was before the millennium) our principal - a priest, told us that statistically around 20 of our year will be gay and that we could point them out and mock them, but we might regret that a lot and he'd urge us to not treat anyone any differently.

There was definitely a lot of homophobia in my school and I don't credit that statement with the fact that two of our year came out that summer - but I do credit it with the universally positive reaction from everyone. Again, I don't want to defend the church - but I can't shake the impression that they are removed from this rhetoric for the most part.

I understand the point you're trying to make Venjur, and I'm not trying to be smart here, but one personal experience doesn't speak for a religion that boasts over 1 billion members. There's plenty of large 'sects' or groups under the umbrella of Catholicism that are extremists, look at the States and certain local government rolling back abortion law, even the same sex marriage referendums getting large turnouts to vote against it (I know they lost by a majority but still significant numbers went out of the way to vote no).

I respect and understand that certain elements of the church are changing, but there's still a hell of a lot of their members stuck in the same beliefs from the last century.

sydthebeat

Nearly 14grand in a few hours.

Id well believe he'll be in 6 figures before this time tomorrow...

Though I can't see him making 3million

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I understand the point you're trying to make Venjur, and I'm not trying to be smart here, but one personal experience doesn't speak for a religion that boasts over 1 billion members. There's plenty of large 'sects' or groups under the umbrella of Catholicism that are extremists, look at the States and certain local government rolling back abortion law, even the same sex marriage referendums getting large turnouts to vote against it (I know they lost by a majority but still significant numbers went out of the way to vote no).

I respect and understand that certain elements of the church are changing, but there's still a hell of a lot of their members stuck in the same beliefs from the last century.

I agree with what you are saying, I am so far removed from a religious mindset that I'm genuinely baffled how people can believe in something which is no more realistic than Santa and a lot less pleasant.

But the current Pope has been relatively conciliatory on the topic and he has the loudest voice in the church by a significant margin. He's moved the churches position on a number of issues and it's probably slowed decline in their more lucrative regions.

joseywhales

I think the hardline conservatism in the Bible belt is predominantly evangelism which I always thought was ironic, you know interpreting the Bible for people and prescribing personal behavior, not to mention the large sums of money they yield. Yet they push for small federal government and oversight.

I guess it's the same old power grab whatever the name of the religion is.

Squidgy Black

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nearly 14grand in a few hours.

Id well believe he'll be in 6 figures before this time tomorrow...

Though I can't see him making 3million

Just hit 325k overnight.

Drew Mitchell has also come out and blasted him on Twitter:

Former Former

I don't think Folau said he deserves the money more than dying children.

Mitchell acting the prick there.

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

I don't think Folau said he deserves the money more than dying children.

Mitchell acting the prick there.

He's definitely acting the bollox, but there was a good point made elsewhere. Folau's under no obligation to use the money donated for his legal fees, and the cost of legal fees for a defamation case shouldn't cost anywhere close to that amount. There's a good chance he's using this as contingency for if he doesn't get his salary paid out.

Former Former

Squidgy Black wrote: »

He's definitely acting the bollox, but there was a good point made elsewhere. Folau's under no obligation to use the money donated for his legal fees, and the cost of legal fees for a defamation case shouldn't cost anywhere close to that amount. There's a good chance he's using this as contingency for if he doesn't get his salary paid out.

That same argument applies to any crowdfunding. People just assume Folau will rip his supporters off because they don't like his opinions. I don't think that's fair.

It's not a defamation case. It's a wrongful termination case that ARU have already said they'll appeal and fight as far as they can. Unless legal fees in Australia are much lower than here, he won't be long burning up the cash.

evil_seed

I say fair play to Drew Mitchell. Folau is delusional at this stage. The only thing is it's the people that donate that think he is more important than the children, other than that I support his message. GoFundMe need to have a word with themselves over this IMO.