General Rugby Discussion II

sydthebeat

Ex Leinster and Munster Jordan Coughlan moving to Leicester from Nottingham

Legalfarmer89

Buer wrote: »

I would say that he has turned things around and that's a fair point. I would very much question the judgement of calling him up to the NZ squad though. In a very roundabout way, the best thing that ever happened to his career was the incident with his girlfriend. I'm aware that's an extremely disingenuous way to put it but it's not wholly inaccurate.

It sends a very odd message to a society that is taking
measures to try and curtail domestic violence.

A bit of a poach by the All Blacks is our little Sevu Reece! Moved to New Zealand from Fiji aged 17 for school and rugby!

They are no better than the rest of international rugby for this kind of activity.

Former Former

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the fact that he would probably have been given a conviction had he not been a rugby player.

That said, the guy was 21 and if it was genuinely a one-off incident I'd be slow to write anyone off on the basis of something stupid he did when he was 21. I don't think many of us would pass that test.

AdamD

Is domestic abuse ever once off? Correct me if I'm wrong of course, just really seems like the kinda thing that's very often repeated (and not repeatedly reported).

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the fact that he would probably have been given a conviction had he not been a rugby player.

That said, the guy was 21 and if it was genuinely a one-off incident I'd be slow to write anyone off on the basis of something stupid he did when he was 21. I don't think many of us would pass that test.

In fairness to the judge, she not only had testimony from the victim saying she forgave him and they were both attending therapy, but he had also been sober for 3 months following the incident as he had an issue with alcohol. And on top of that a letter from his to-be employer saying if he was convicted that he would no longer be employed. Which arguably was the motivating factor in not convicting him, as the judge said the punishment would have outweighed the action.

So in summary, it's Connacht's fault he wasn't given a conviction and they're supporting domestic abuse.


(I'm joking before anyone gets their knickers in a twist)

b.gud

Squidgy Black wrote: »

In fairness to the judge, she not only had testimony from the victim saying she forgave him and they were both attending therapy, but he had also been sober for 3 months following the incident as he had an issue with alcohol. And on top of that a letter from his to-be employer saying if he was convicted that he would no longer be employed. Which arguably was the motivating factor in not convicting him, as the judge said the punishment would have outweighed the action.

So in summary, it's Connacht's fault he wasn't given a conviction and they're supporting domestic abuse.

Squidgy Black wrote: »

(I'm joking before anyone gets their knickers in a twist)

hahashake

Legalfarmer89 wrote: »

A bit of a poach by the All Blacks is our little Sevu Reece! Moved to New Zealand from Fiji aged 17 for school and rugby!

They are no better than the rest of international rugby for this kind of activity.

Whilst I have no issue with calling him a poach, it's funny how the tides have turned. It used to be that the ABs were the number one target for claims of poaching, now they are "no better than the rest of international rugby".

Clegg

James O'Connor has left Sale Sharks on order to qualify for Australia for the World Cup.

callaway92

Doing some Rugby data for work at the mo - Anyone any idea what a technical penalty is?

It's one of the things in coding that we can possibly use, but we need a French translation/description

errlloyd

Free kick I am guessing.

callaway92

errlloyd wrote: »

Free kick I am guessing.

Cool - I'm more thinking what causes the 'technical foul'

Squidgy Black

callaway92 wrote: »

Cool - I'm more thinking what causes the 'technical foul'

Too many players in the line-out, putting the ball into the scrum incorrectly, crooked lineout throw.

callaway92

Thanks lads

Yeah_Right

Former Former wrote: »

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the fact that he would probably have been given a conviction had he not been a rugby player.

That said, the guy was 21 and if it was genuinely a one-off incident I'd be slow to write anyone off on the basis of something stupid he did when he was 21. I don't think many of us would pass that test.

I believe he got diversion. It's quite common in NZ for first time offenders. Don't know if Ireland has an equivalent. I don't know all the criteria for it but it allows the judge to discharge a first time offender without conviction. They usually have to make a donation to charity, do anger management or rehab/therapy but it doesn't affect future employment or visas etc.

I think it stays on their record and can be used against them if they re-offend. It can't be used for drink driving. It's generally used for drunken or youthful stupidity so as to ruin their lives. Had a few mates that got it in their teens or early 20s. If they'd gotten a conviction it would have changed some of their lives quite drastically.

errlloyd

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I believe he got diversion. It's quite common in NZ for first time offenders. Don't know if Ireland has an equivalent. I don't know all the criteria for it but it allows the judge to discharge a first time offender without conviction. They usually have to make a donation to charity, do anger management or rehab/therapy but it doesn't affect future employment or visas etc.

We have the charity box in Ireland. And I absolutely hate it. Either the people of Tralee are very generous, or the judges are.

The court poor box has been used extensively in District 17, Kerry. Tralee court office representing contributions from the district courts in Killarney, Tralee, Dingle, Kenmare, Cahersiveen and Listowel traditionally accounts for the greatest single share of the overall figure donated each year.

In 2018 , Tralee accounted for over €458,249.99 or over a quarter of the total. The Tralee monies were distributed across 66 beneficiaries.

In contrast, for example, Clare’s Ennis office total contribution towards six charities, mainly local, in 2018 was €3,750.

Legalfarmer89

hahashake wrote: »

Whilst I have no issue with calling him a poach, it's funny how the tides have turned. It used to be that the ABs were the number one target for claims of poaching, now they are "no better than the rest of international rugby".

Well is is it not true? Most international teams will cap a "project player" if it suits them.

hahashake

Legalfarmer89 wrote: »

Well is is it not true? Most international teams will cap a "project player" if it suits them.

It's certainly true. Just amusing that how times change.

sydthebeat

delighted to see no nick phipps in the wallabies squad for the RC..... powell and White in ahead of him as back up to Genia.

Phipps literally stole a few dozen international caps due to better players playing outside of Oz.

RugbyLover123

sydthebeat wrote: »

delighted to see no nick phipps in the wallabies squad for the RC..... powell and White in ahead of him as back up to Genia.

Phipps literally stole a few dozen international caps due to better players playing outside of Oz.

That's a little harsh, who over the last 4 years has been better then him bar Genia? I watched a lot of White in Super rugby and he was not playing at the level he has been for Exeter. Phipps also won a super rugby title. I'm not saying Phipps is a world beater but he's been the best of a very average bunch behind Genia.

jr86

Clegg wrote: »

James O'Connor has left Sale Sharks on order to qualify for Australia for the World Cup.

And doesn't make the squad...

That's a bit mental, he must surely have really thought he would to make the move?

He'll be 33 by the next world cup, surely he's far better off staying in the UK/France a few more years. he actually seems to have sorted himself out at Sale too

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

delighted to see no nick phipps in the wallabies squad for the RC..... powell and White in ahead of him as back up to Genia.

Phipps literally stole a few dozen international caps due to better players playing outside of Oz.

I've always thought that the Aussies had a similar issue to Ireland at halfback. Outstanding, world class first choice then a bunch of very average players who got hardly any game time because the drop in standard was too big. None of them can nail down the back up spot.

Australia has a lot of experience with this. Gregan probably missed about 3 minutes of game time in his entire test career.

sydthebeat

its a slow rugby day

yeah it might be a bit harsh, and it is five years since the tahs won SR..... but damn hes a poor international SH.

just had a look there and the dearth of SH's in Australia is startling.
Since Phipps was capped in 2011, there has only been 4 other SHs capped... White in 2013, Frisby in 2016 and Powell in 2017. Jake Gordon got 1 cap for a test friendly v Italy in 2017.
Frisby is kak so he doesnt come into the equation really.

powell has 4 caps, frisby has 4 caps, gordon has 1 cap.... white hasnt played since 2015.......

jr86

When are we likely to see an Australia decline really coming into play?

Popularity and participation rates seem to be getting worse and worse, there's barely any exposure to Rugby Union over there. Their Super Rugby games seem awfully attended

Yet they're still well and truly holding their own on the international stage, even if they're at the worst level I've ever seen them

Will the clubs and private schools be able to supply enough talent on a continual basis to keep them ticking over on the international stage? Or in 10/15 years time will they be on a level similar to Italy for example, and at a point of no return?

sydthebeat

jr86 wrote: »

When are we likely to see an Australia decline really coming into play?

already

3 years ago they were ranked 2nd in the world.... today they are 6th.... having been at 7th before the end of year tests last year.

they do seem to peak at RWC times though... but i fear this year might be the one they fall down in... their match against wales will be epic.... and a loss in that would have them most probably facing England in the qfs

Their Super rugby teams stink to high heavens currently, with only the brumbies being anyway half decent.

The reds might come good in the next few years though, as there are some great young players there.

Also, their showing in the years U20s is a positive ... with some real prospects coming through. Ive no idea of their pathways though... club / school etc

AdamD

Funny that the last time Australia were any good they had Genia, Cooper, Beale and O'Connor playing in the backs. All currently available but unlikely to be picked together again.

jr86

sydthebeat wrote: »

already

Oh absolutely but I was more thinking in terms of an extreme decline like falling outside the top 8 in the world and staying there, and being around Italy/Fiji type level. Could it happen any time soon, or will they always have enough talent coming through to keep them competitive?

Former Former

jr86 wrote: »

Will the clubs and private schools Pacific Islands be able to supply enough talent on a continual basis to keep them ticking over on the international stage?

FYP

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

its a slow rugby day

yeah it might be a bit harsh, and it is five years since the tahs won SR..... but damn hes a poor international SH.

just had a look there and the dearth of SH's in Australia is startling.
Since Phipps was capped in 2011, there has only been 4 other SHs capped... White in 2013, Frisby in 2016 and Powell in 2017. Jake Gordon got 1 cap for a test friendly v Italy in 2017.
Frisby is kak so he doesnt come into the equation really.

powell has 4 caps, frisby has 4 caps, gordon has 1 cap.... white hasnt played since 2015.......

The most significant thing that Nick Phipps ever did at international level was throwing an All Blacks' boot into the crowd during a Bledisloe Cup match.

sydthebeat

Nasi manu named in tongas pacific nations cup squad.....

Absolutely delighted for the guy!

swiwi_

RIP James Small.

Anyone who was watching rugby in the 90s will remember this guy. Especially for SA at the 1995 RWC.