General Rugby Discussion II

Yeah_Right

hahashake wrote: »

Irony is that supposedly he was outed by a Maradona fan who trawled through his social media after he felt the Pumas didn't show appropriate respect.

I hadn't heard that. That's mad considering Maradona appeared to be a bit of a fan of Los Pumas. He was often at their home games and he was their dressing room after a match in RWC 2015. I think it might have been after a certain game in Cardiff.

What were the rugby team expected to have done to honour him?

molloyjh

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That is horrible stuff. The thing is, I can't guarantee that I didn't say anything as bad when I was a teenager. Can you? In fact I'm pretty certain I did and possibly worse. Why? I was young, stupid and ignorant and wanting to look "cool" or "edgy" in front of my mates. Like I said earlier, glad there was no social media around then.

I can guarantee I never said anything remotely like that. I can also guarantee that I never heard any of my peers do so either. I can also guarantee that if any did they'd be told in no uncertain terms where they should take that s**t.

In the early 90s in primary school, 2 brothers arrived into school who were black. It was the first time any of us had seen black people in the flesh so we gathered at the end of the corridor. Some smart arse thought it was hilarious to make a racist joke. It didn't go down well with anyone. Even at 11 or 12 that stuff wasn't accepted.

I get that people can be dumb when they're younger and some things we need to be able to let go of. And some things demand very sincere apologies. Being an idiot at 15 or 16 and copping on as you grow up is normal enough and allowances need to be made. At 18 or 19 though standards have to be different. Your allowed to drive, to drink, to vote etc. More should be expected. In this case some of those tweets are so vile they simply can't be ignored. Serious action has to be taken.

And if they can demonstrate in some meaningful way that they no longer hold those beliefs and are sincerely sorry then we should look to forgive and move on. But we also need to be careful that insincere apologies dont let these guys off the hook too.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I can guarantee I never said anything remotely like that. I can also guarantee that I never heard any of my peers do so either. I can also guarantee that if any did they'd be told in no uncertain terms where they should take that s**t.

In the early 90s in primary school, 2 brothers arrived into school who were black. It was the first time any of us had seen black people in the flesh so we gathered at the end of the corridor. Some smart arse thought it was hilarious to make a racist joke. It didn't go down well with anyone. Even at 11 or 12 that stuff wasn't accepted.

This kind of stuff is anecdotal, you definitely see the opposite even long after the 90's.

I only moved to Ireland a bit over a decade ago, and I was taken aback by the way Nigerians were referred to by people in my extended circle here. These would be people from respectable families in Dublin. It seemed like it was very easy for these people to talk this way because nobody ever pulled them up on it.

Not that this is anything to do with rugby, although they did like watching it :pac:

Yeah_Right

Basil3 wrote: »

This kind of stuff is anecdotal, you definitely see the opposite even long after the 90's.

I only moved to Ireland a bit over a decade ago, and I was taken aback by the way Nigerians were referred to by people in my extended circle here. These would be people from respectable families in Dublin. It seemed like it was very easy for these people to talk this way because nobody ever pulled them up on it.

Not that this is anything to do with rugby, although they did like watching it :pac:

I was the same. I was quite surprised by the overt and casual racism I heard from adults towards black people when I arrived in Ireland. Even just a little thing like not getting in a taxi with a black driver. It was probably similar to wht I heard in Auckland in the 80s and 90s towards Asian people.

Just to be clear, I'm not condoning what Matera and the others said. They've been suspended and I think an apology is needed. Maybe some charity work or a donation but I don't think it should end their careers.

thebaz

Dog Botherer wrote: »

i think part of the perceived (and perhaps real, i wouldn’t discount it) slight in the rugby team making a very lowkey tribute to Maradona is linked Maradona’s open and proud embracing of left wing politics versus the conservative culture of Argentinian rugby. it was certainly a poor look when the All Blacks did more than them.

Didn't Maradonna show up for the Argentian WC gamee in '15 , he seamed to be loving the rugby - was ther some fallout ?

sydthebeat

Bleyendaal off to coach with the hurricanes

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/former-munster-number-10-joins-hurricanes-coaching-staff/632568

Dog Botherer

thebaz wrote: »

Didn't Maradonna show up for the Argentian WC gamee in '15 , he seamed to be loving the rugby - was ther some fallout ?

I was more speaking to the politically right wing nature of many of those involved in Argentine rugby. Maradona was well known to be friendly with socialist leaders such as Castro and Chavez and openly supported left wing causes. I doubt Maradona harbored any resentment or hatred of rugby, his excitement at WC 2015 seemed the genuine behavior of a man who loved to see his country doing well.

The Lost Sheep

Brett Gosper stepping down as World Rugby CEO to become head of the NFL in Europe and the UK
https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/1202/1181950-world-rugby-chief-brett-gosper-to-leave-for-nfl-role/

WeleaseWoderick

Haven't listened to their podcast really since the lockdown in March but this week's Rugby Pod episode is well worth a listen.

Two really good conversations. First one about the state of the international game at the moment with the ruck interpretations and not refing the offside line. The second was an interview with Benjamin Kayser where he spoke really well about Christophe Dominici and the mental challenges of being a retired player.

Exclamation Marc

The Argentina Rugby Union has rescinded its sanction against captain Pablo Matera and two players who posted racial and xenophobic comments on social media.

UAR said the players’ apologies, combined with their good behaviour in the years since the comments were posted, meant the suspension could be lifted. Matera has been reinstated as captain.

Yeah....

swiwi_

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

The Argentina Rugby Union has rescinded its sanction against captain Pablo Matera and two players who posted racial and xenophobic comments on social media.

UAR said the players’ apologies, combined with their good behaviour in the years since the comments were posted, meant the suspension could be lifted. Matera has been reinstated as captain.

Yeah....

In other news, for a limited time special edition wet bus tickets are available for purchase on the UAR website.

Dog Botherer

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

The Argentina Rugby Union has rescinded its sanction against captain Pablo Matera and two players who posted racial and xenophobic comments on social media.

UAR said the players’ apologies, combined with their good behaviour in the years since the comments were posted, meant the suspension could be lifted. Matera has been reinstated as captain.

Yeah....

strong rumours floating around that the players were threatening to strike. which, uh, isn’t great.

AdamD

Their comments were obviously very bad but banning somebody for comments made nearly a decade ago is definitely a weird area.

hahashake

For those up very early tomorrow, the NZ Maori vs Moana Pasifika game is on at 6.05am Ireland/UK time tomorrow.

Should be entertaining for the neutral, expect Baabaas style rugby.

ersatz

AdamD wrote: »

Their comments were obviously very bad but banning somebody for comments made nearly a decade ago is definitely a weird area.

Not sure about that, honestly. The comments are foul and were made when he was an adult. The players threatening to strike just shows how out of touch and elite rugby players in Argentina are. Argentina, like a lot of South American countries, has a vicious race racket. There has been no census of indigenous people there since the 1960s and it's only in the last decade or two that the state has acknowledged that it isn't a totally 'white/European' country. Matera played for Argentina's U20s around the time these comments were made. Not good enough and rugby fans who are interested in moving rugby past it's traditional demographic and class limits should not tolerate this kind of stuff from players. The Argentinian union's decision to back down shows that they have a very long way to go to becoming civilized.

Paul Smeenus

ersatz wrote: »

Not sure about that, honestly. The comments are foul and were made when he was an adult. The players threatening to strike just shows how out of touch and elite rugby players in Argentina are. Argentina, like a lot of South American countries, has a vicious race racket. There has been no census of indigenous people there since the 1960s and it's only in the last decade or two that the state has acknowledged that it isn't a totally 'white/European' country. Matera played for Argentina's U20s around the time these comments were made. Not good enough and rugby fans who are interested in moving rugby past it's traditional demographic and class limits should not tolerate this kind of stuff from players. The Argentinian union's decision to back down shows that they have a very long way to go to becoming civilized.

Agree with this.

I don't think much of people who go back, combing through someone's social media from a decade ago, trying to find some transgression to punish them with, because they've offended them in some other manner.

But what he said is vile. It's not an off-colour joke, it's not a bit ignorant, it's utterly beyond the Pale. Toxic and hateful.

Dog Botherer

mercifully this controversy has finally managed to shut up all the twats bleating about the pregame anti-racism stuff.

ongarite

That's a harsh red card in Tri Nations game.

No arms tackle but with some head contact.

ongarite

ongarite wrote: »

That's a harsh red card in Tri Nations game.

No arms tackle but with some head contact.

He was going for the wrap, but I guess you run the risk these days if the player you're tackling isn't fully upright and you're aiming around the chest.

ongarite

ongarite wrote: »

That's a harsh red card in Tri Nations game.

No arms tackle but with some head contact.

Seems like a red card all day with the current rules. Initial contact to the head.

Tristram

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seems like a red card all day with the current rules. Initial contact to the head.

Clear red alright.

ongarite

That's a bad bad miss

Looking like back-to-back draws between these teams. Has that happened before in internationals?

Tristram

Pity about the weather.

sydthebeat

Basil3 wrote: »

Looking like back-to-back draws between these teams. Has that happened before in internationals?

Did we do back to back draws with France in the 2000s?


Edit : just checked, we did in 2012 and 2013

Clegg

Ireland's try Vs Italy wins World Rugbys Men's XV try of the decade.

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1336053240815886338?s=09

Squidgy Black

McCaw got player of the decade

Burkie1203

That team. Imagine if they had their peak years together

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1336059133741641731?s=19

Clegg

The team of the decade is a bit farcical. BOD retired in 2014 and George North somehow got in despite being pretty mediocre for years. As much as I like Murray the 9 jersey absolutely should've went to Aaron Smith. The worst call is Parisse at number 8. Kieran Read won World Player of the Year, two World Cups and God knows how many Rugby Championships.

The Lost Sheep

Clegg wrote: »

The team of the decade is a bit farcical. BOD retired in 2014 and George North somehow got in despite being pretty mediocre for years. As much as I like Murray the 9 jersey absolutely should've went to Aaron Smith. The worst call is Parisse at number 8. Kieran Read won World Player of the Year, two World Cups and God knows how many Rugby Championships.

I dont think O Driscoll retiring in 14 should discount him.
He was still key to 2 european titles, a 6 nations.
North scored 40 or so tries in internationals in the decade. That says a lot. Should be picked for that alone

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

The team of the decade is a bit farcical. BOD retired in 2014 and George North somehow got in despite being pretty mediocre for years. As much as I like Murray the 9 jersey absolutely should've went to Aaron Smith. The worst call is Parisse at number 8. Kieran Read won World Player of the Year, two World Cups and God knows how many Rugby Championships.

George North was never even nominated for player of the year at any stage. Julian Savea was nominated back to back in 2014/15. Read won it in 2013 ahead of Parisse. Couple really dodgy decisions there.

RugbyLover123

Clegg wrote: »

The team of the decade is a bit farcical. BOD retired in 2014 and George North somehow got in despite being pretty mediocre for years. As much as I like Murray the 9 jersey absolutely should've went to Aaron Smith. The worst call is Parisse at number 8. Kieran Read won World Player of the Year, two World Cups and God knows how many Rugby Championships.

Yeah those were the 4 calls I was questioning myself. Bit if a farce not having Read and Aaron Smith in there.

hahashake

Was done by popular vote, no? Or is that just the player of the decade?

Squidgy Black

hahashake wrote: »

Was done by popular vote, no? Or is that just the player of the decade?

Nah the teams are picked by the world rugby award panel, the players awards were fan vote.

awec

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Nah the teams are picked by the world rugby award panel, the players awards were fan vote.

That team was picked by a panel and doesn't include Kieran Read?

Conor Murray at 9? :pac:

Read, if they had any sense, would be player of the decade.

salmocab

awec wrote: »

That team was picked by a panel and doesn't include Kieran Read?

Conor Murray at 9? :pac:

Read, if they had any sense, would be player of the decade.

If they made 15 uncontroversial picks nobody would talk about it. It’s a meaningless thing.

RugbyLover123

Read and Smith were probably the 2 best players across the whole 10 years.

Dog Botherer

you’re talking about it, they’ve achieved what they set out to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nu6aGcDeAg

Bridge93

Sure Jessy Tremouliere won women’s player of the decade yet isn’t in the team of the decade. The whole event is a joke

Paul Smeenus

Dog Botherer wrote: »

you’re talking about it, they’ve achieved what they set out to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nu6aGcDeAg

Must...not... hijack... thread... with... Limmy... clips....

> grinds teeth, closes YouTube window with "steel is heavier than feathers" sketch <

Former Former Former

The fact that Parisse is even in the discussion despite playing for Italy is significant IMO. He was a special player and I don't think it's that much of an outrage tbh.

I'm sure Read will console himself with his refuse sack full of medals and honours.

Yeah_Right

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think O Driscoll retiring in 14 should discount him.
He was still key to 2 european titles, a 6 nations.
North scored 40 or so tries in internationals in the decade. That says a lot. Should be picked for that alone

Conrad Smith was vital to 2 RWC wins and multiple Rugby Championships but I'll give you BOD.
North scored 43 tries in 101 tests. Savea scored 46 tries in 54 tests.
I agree with most here that Aaron Smith and Read can feel hard done by.

salmocab

Former Former Former wrote: »

The fact that Parisse is even in the discussion despite playing for Italy is significant IMO. He was a special player and I don't think it's that much of an outrage tbh.

I'm sure Read will console himself with his refuse sack full of medals and honours.

I think he got in because he played for Italy.

FACECUTTR

Steve Diamond gone from Sale Sharks

hahashake

I don't know if it was injuries or just age but Read 2015-2019 wasn't the player he was in 2010-2015. Have to wonder if Poite blew the penalty on Owens, whether the latter part of Read's career might be viewed slightly more favourably. He was still a very good player, just not the standout he once was.

aloooof

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Conrad Smith was vital to 2 RWC wins and multiple Rugby Championships but I'll give you BOD.
North scored 43 tries in 101 tests. Savea scored 46 tries in 54 tests.
I agree with most here that Aaron Smith and Read can feel hard done by.

I saw someone on Twitter make the case for Jon Davies at 13, and I found it hard to disagree with tbh, definitely in the conversation also.

Squidgy Black

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Steve Diamond gone from Sale Sharks

Huge change for them, been their director for 10 years.

sydthebeat

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Steve Diamond gone from Sale Sharks

Very sudden.

He's built that team up very much in his image.

I wonder whats going on

sydthebeat

I'm a happy bunny this morning.

Two gold tickets secured for the lions v Japan game in June... something to look forward after a barren 2020

FACECUTTR

sydthebeat wrote: »

Very sudden.

He's built that team up very much in his image.

I wonder whats going on

The article says personal reasons. He has put massive work into the whole setup and they have a phenomenal squad.