General Rugby Discussion II

Granny15

Is there something to be said for capping the players wages in Ireland at say 80k for top end players here? Put the rest of the money that would go on wages into grass roots.

I would say it’s an honour to play for your country and most of the players on these high wages are only average on a global scale. People tout them as world class but time and again we are shown they are average if not below average globally.

I believe these kids are getting paid extortionate amounts to do something they would do for free. If they want to leave to England or France or elsewhere for higher wages - let them but strip them of their right to play for their country.

I saw a thread with Awec saying something similar but couldn’t find it. Want to raise my support for his view these players are earning way too much for something that is an honour

Thrashssacre

Granny15 wrote: »

Is there something to be said for capping the players wages in Ireland at say 80k for top end players here? Put the rest of the money that would go on wages into grass roots.

I would say it’s an honour to play for your country and most of the players on these high wages are only average on a global scale. People tout them as world class but time and again we are shown they are average if not below average globally.

I believe these kids are getting paid extortionate amounts to do something they would do for free. If they want to leave to England or France or elsewhere for higher wages - let them but strip them of their right to play for their country.

I saw a thread with Awec saying something similar but couldn’t find it. Want to raise my support for his view these players are earning way too much for something that is an honour

No.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

I don't think I've ever been less enthusiastic about the prospect of a Lion's tour next year than I am right now.

From an Irish POV, I don't think we could say that any Irish player would definitely start the test matches.

However we may still get a few touring, and once on tour who knows what will happen.

I seem to be in a minority but I really like the Lions tours. I enjoy the DVD's and I think it's a pretty novel sporting event.

The last tour to New Zealand was disappointing for a few reasons but overall I think it's a great event and I look forward to it.

As for Irish involvement, we definitely seem to be struggling against power teams like England and no doubt South Africa (though we've gotten the better of them for the last 5 or so years).

I could see Sexton going, I could even see him being tour captain and yet I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't there at all either. He's led one tour to victory and was the starter in 2 / 3 games in the secound tour and he's always played well in test lions rugby. It's really down to his fitness by the time the tour comes up.

I think Furlong and Ryan will travel. I feel Healy isn't the player he was and not sure he'd be in the frame. Backrow similarly right now we've little to offer albeit the likes of Leavy if he comes back the same player would be a good option for a South African tour. VDF will be in with a shout, as will POM and Stander but on current form I'm not sure. Be interesting to see what kind of player Doris is in the run up.

If Lowe is still in Ireland I think he'll travel. Ringrose will travel and I suspect he'll be a test starter. Larmour I think has a solid shout. Hard to know which if either of Murray or Cooney might travel. Stockdale has a decent stake but again - his form has been too iffy to be a certainty.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

I seem to be in a minority but I really like the Lions tours. I enjoy the DVD's and I think it's a pretty novel sporting event.

The last tour to New Zealand was disappointing for a few reasons but overall I think it's a great event and I look forward to it.

As for Irish involvement, we definitely seem to be struggling against power teams like England and no doubt South Africa (though we've gotten the better of them for the last 5 or so years).

I could see Sexton going, I could even see him being tour captain and yet I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't there at all either. He's led one tour to victory and was the starter in 2 / 3 games in the secound tour and he's always played well in test lions rugby. It's really down to his fitness by the time the tour comes up.

I think Furlong and Ryan will travel. I feel Healy isn't the player he was and not sure he'd be in the frame. Backrow similarly right now we've little to offer albeit the likes of Leavy if he comes back the same player would be a good option for a South African tour. VDF will be in with a shout, as will POM and Stander but on current form I'm not sure. Be interesting to see what kind of player Doris is in the run up.

If Lowe is still in Ireland I think he'll travel. Ringrose will travel and I suspect he'll be a test starter. Larmour I think has a solid shout. Hard to know which if either of Murray or Cooney might travel. Stockdale has a decent stake but again - his form has been too iffy to be a certainty.

I've always liked them as well, but not as much as I used to.

2001 was the first tour where I watched every game religiously (I didn't have Sky Sports in '97 so it passed me by a bit). I loved it. Watching the likes of BOD, Rob Henderson, Jason Robinson and even Daffyd James(!) tearing the Wallabies apart in the 1st Test was magical stuff. Even in 2005 when the Lions were muck I watched it all from start to finish.

I think 2013 was when it started to lose a bit of its magic for me, although in saying that the 2017 series was a great watch.

To be honest it may be because I'm older now and it's harder to get excited about it all.

Maybe some of our 20 something posters can tell us how they feel about.

If fit I'd say Furlong and Ryan will definitely travel, I could see Murray going because Gatland is clearly a fan. There are a load of players who could make it but could just as easily miss out. There are far too many uncertainties at the moment. The biggest uncertainty is whether the tour will even happen!

thomond2006

Granny15 wrote: »

Is there something to be said for capping the players wages in Ireland at say 80k for top end players here? Put the rest of the money that would go on wages into grass roots.

I would say it’s an honour to play for your country and most of the players on these high wages are only average on a global scale. People tout them as world class but time and again we are shown they are average if not below average globally.

I believe these kids are getting paid extortionate amounts to do something they would do for free. If they want to leave to England or France or elsewhere for higher wages - let them but strip them of their right to play for their country.

I saw a thread with Awec saying something similar but couldn’t find it. Want to raise my support for his view these players are earning way too much for something that is an honour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GampCzWSW3A

Bazzo

Did I fever dream it or is Gatland coaching again? If so Aki could be in with a shout.

Cookiemunster

Bazzo wrote: »

Did I fever dream it or is Gatland coaching again? If so Aki could be in with a shout.

Yup. He's getting a years sabatical from the Chiefs to do so.

The Lost Sheep

Granny15 wrote: »

Is there something to be said for capping the players wages in Ireland at say 80k for top end players here? Put the rest of the money that would go on wages into grass roots.

I would say it’s an honour to play for your country and most of the players on these high wages are only average on a global scale. People tout them as world class but time and again we are shown they are average if not below average globally.

I believe these kids are getting paid extortionate amounts to do something they would do for free. If they want to leave to England or France or elsewhere for higher wages - let them but strip them of their right to play for their country.

I saw a thread with Awec saying something similar but couldn’t find it. Want to raise my support for his view these players are earning way too much for something that is an honour

no but a lot of the regulars at pro rugby who go to little or no rugby beyond that could do a lot more by paying club membership, attending club games and events more.

Buer

I see Tim Swinson has signed for Saracens. Flew under the radar a bit. Not a bad signing for them and will tide them over and provide some depth upon their return when they'll get the likes of Isiekwe back and potentially Kruis.

thomond2006

The World Rugby account has full games from the last RWC: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE28rwYoaV7jvU6GVzdu_GQ

I watched Japan vs Scotland again, what an incredible performance from the hosts. It's a shame Japan vs Ireland was called off and never happened.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

The World Rugby account has full games from the last RWC: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE28rwYoaV7jvU6GVzdu_GQ

I watched Japan vs Scotland again, what an incredible performance from the hosts. It's a shame Japan vs Ireland was called off and never happened.

Ireland haven't had much luck with all these sudden postponements over the years, NZ in 2013 and France in 2007 at Croke Pk.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

I see Tim Swinson has signed for Saracens. Flew under the radar a bit. Not a bad signing for them and will tide them over and provide some depth upon their return when they'll get the likes of Isiekwe back and potentially Kruis.

They've also signed will hooley from bedford.
Own farrell won't be playing much championship rugby next season

AbusesToilets

thomond2006 wrote: »

The World Rugby account has full games from the last RWC: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE28rwYoaV7jvU6GVzdu_GQ

I watched Japan vs Scotland again, what an incredible performance from the hosts. It's a shame Japan vs Ireland was called off and never happened.

They've been on quite a streak posting our greatest hits. Losing to the Argies, Japan, France, Wales. Someone in that office loves us

thomond2006

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They've been on quite a streak posting our greatest hits. Losing to the Argies, Japan, France, Wales. Someone in that office loves us

There was never a game against Japan. It was called off.

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

They've also signed will hooley from bedford.
Own farrell won't be playing much championship rugby next season

I'd say the big names will almost have the season off. They'll work double time off the field in terms of PR, appearances etc. but I can't see them making more than 10 appearances on the field for Saracens. Mostly to keep themselves fit or prepare for bigger games for England or the Leinster match, if it goes ahead.

With the Lions at the end of the season too, I can see Saracens being fairly happy to let their test guys have a far reduced workload and come back fit and firing for the following season.

b.gud

Buer wrote: »

I'd say the big names will almost have the season off. They'll work double time off the field in terms of PR, appearances etc. but I can't see them making more than 10 appearances on the field for Saracens. Mostly to keep themselves fit or prepare for bigger games for England or the Leinster match, if it goes ahead.

With the Lions at the end of the season too, I can see Saracens being fairly happy to let their test guys have a far reduced workload and come back fit and firing for the following season.

Are they able to be promoted next season? When the whole thing happened there was some talk about the rules stating that in order for a team to get promoted they needed to show that they were operating within the salary cap for 2 years. Has that been clarified?

sydthebeat

b.gud wrote: »

Are they able to be promoted next season? When the whole thing happened there was some talk about the rules stating that in order for a team to get promoted they needed to show that they were operating within the salary cap for 2 years. Has that been clarified?

This whole rearrangement of players contracts is gonna have EVERY team under cap next season

Buer

b.gud wrote: »

Are they able to be promoted next season? When the whole thing happened there was some talk about the rules stating that in order for a team to get promoted they needed to show that they were operating within the salary cap for 2 years. Has that been clarified?

I haven't heard anything about it so I assume so. If they couldn't be promoted next year, I'd imagine a far greater fuss would be made about it.

Squidgy Black

b.gud wrote: »

Are they able to be promoted next season? When the whole thing happened there was some talk about the rules stating that in order for a team to get promoted they needed to show that they were operating within the salary cap for 2 years. Has that been clarified?

Think it was clarified shortly after that the wording was incorrect or had been picked up wrong by the media and they'd be able to be promoted.

I can't imagine any team will be close to the cap this season. First of all teams were given a 25% credit if they got players to sign deals beyond the 2021/22 season, which apparently a load of players were handed extensions and told to sign within 24 hours or potentially be released, and with the talk of cutting player salaries across the board by 25% the actual cap numbers will be significantly lower than last year.

sydthebeat

OTB have done another very good interview podcast to follow up the Stuart Barnes one from last week.

This week its Liam Toland... and before people roll their eyes......hes actually quite an interesting guy, with his life outlook and his business interests.

Eod100

EPCR have put out fixtures for Challenge/Champions Cup:

Quarter-finals: weekend of 18/19/20 September
Semi-finals: weekend of 25/26/27 September
Challenge Cup final: Friday, 16 October
Heineken Champions Cup final: Saturday, 17 October
Start of 2020/21 season: weekend of 11/12/13 December

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/06/25/new-epcr-dates-for-2019-20-announced/

Buer

Going to be some craic for players who start their season with multiple knock out games and a test window before embarking on a full season culminating in more end of season tests.

There will be a huge demand on playing resources for a number of teams.

Eod100

Buer wrote: »

Going to be some craic for players who start their season with multiple knock out games and a test window before embarking on a full season culminating in more end of season tests.

There will be a huge demand on playing resources for a number of teams.

Is the November series off the table? And have to fit in this season's 6N somewhere. Guess 8 x 3 pools in CC next season gets more weekends free. And Lions tour next summer. Busy season ahead!

thomond2006

Adding in Pro14 and taking out Challenge Cup:

Round 14: Saturday, August 22
Round 15: Saturday, August 29
Semi-Finals: Saturday, September 5
Final: Saturday, September 12
Quarter-finals: weekend of 18/19/20 September
Semi-finals: weekend of 25/26/27 September
Heineken Champions Cup final: Saturday, 17 October

Start of 2020/21 season: weekend of 11/12/13 December

I guess Ulster and Leinster will rotate in the Pro14 interpros but that's a brutal schedule.

awec

On the other hand players are just coming off a nice 7 month break where they played no rugby at all, so bodies won't be tired.

But I suspect they'll just use the league weekends as rest weekends. Wouldn't expect to see the better players play at all between November and Jan/Feb.

Eod100

awec wrote: »

On the other hand players are just coming off a nice 7 month break where they played no rugby at all, so bodies won't be tired.

But I suspect they'll just use the league weekends as rest weekends. Wouldn't expect to see the better players play at all between November and Jan/Feb.

I don't think any/many of the players playing in the Champions Cup will start but might be brought on for last 15/20 mins to get match fitness up. Think it would be hard to go into CC q-f without having played in a game since February.

But then again guess all teams will be in the same boat so might not be as much of a concern.

awec

Eod100 wrote: »

I don't think any/many of the players playing in the Champions Cup will start but might be brought on for last 15/20 mins to get match fitness up. Think it would be hard to go into CC q-f without having played in a game since February.

But then again guess all teams will be in the same boat so might not be as much of a concern.

No I mean they'll go hard at it from end of August - early November, and then they'll be essentially given 2 months off.

Eod100

awec wrote: »

No I mean they'll go hard at it from end of August - early November, and then they'll be essentially given 2 months off.

Ah sorry, I get ya. Could work too yeah. Will be a weird whole season with this one and next effectively combined.

aloooof

Was it Japan and SA originally scheduled for the AI's? Wonder what the chances are of them going ahead. Will obviously need to fit in the remaining 6N's fixtures first.

Eod100

aloooof wrote: »

Was it Japan and SA originally scheduled for the AI's? Wonder what the chances are of them going ahead. Will obviously need to fit in the remaining 6N's fixtures first.

Yup and Australia. I'm not sure are they waiting for discussions around global calendar to be sorted. Think there was talk that it would be end of this month but that seems very optimistic at this point.

Guess either way will only go ahead if teams can travel and crowds are allowed. Australia and Japan seem to have virus fairly under control. SA not so much, unless team and staff had to self-isolate for 2 weeks in advance or get negative test results. Lot of variables up in the air!