General Rugby Discussion II

nerd69

sydthebeat wrote: »

one recognised out half and a make shift outhalf / centre is certainly not "fine"

they have lost 2 outhalfs in 2 seasons, without replacement (even from the academy) ... one permanently and one indefinitely

other than the covid situation we are in, munster would be in crisis

We had to many out halves we have 2 highly rated academy guys going into their second season out of 20s and another guy just out of 20s. Healy needs gametime just signing guys from elsewhere constantly just hinders development from within

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

The Irish system is remarkably imbalanced, but it would take a big leap for both the clubs and the supporters to get their head around the idea that just because a player is from there that they would not necessarily be playing there.

I can get my head around the idea just fine, I think its a bad idea though.

There is more movement going on for fringe players which is good but its a fine line between ensuring both teams and players maximise the opportunities and completely devaluing the identities of the provinces. And I think if you move more to the latter you make it more likely young players will leave the Irish system completely.

As things stand we have even had players moving to different academies, but we are never going to be forcing players to move but numerous reasons.

Former Former

nerd69 wrote: »

We had to many out halves we have 2 highly rated academy guys going into their second season out of 20s and another guy just out of 20s. Healy needs gametime just signing guys from elsewhere constantly just hinders development from within

It would appear that the Munster coaches don't agree.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

What I meant was players do not necessarily end up going through the franchise of their own region, talent is more spread out to where it's needed.

Right?

The Irish system is remarkably imbalanced, but it would take a big leap for both the clubs and the supporters to get their head around the idea that just because a player is from there that they would not necessarily be playing there.

i think the kiwi natives on here would know the ins and outs of this much better than me, but from the little i know from friends over there i dont think its as "centralized" as you might imagine, in that its not very NZRFU driven ... but actually more organic or education driven. A lot of it comes down to schooling and university and from that point of view there are equal opportunities throughout the islands .

i guess if you imagined a scenario where our AIL was properly professional and there was a lot more movement between younger players at that level ... but then the clubs within the provinces they played with still were the main feeders into the main provincial team.

we do get this here to a degree with school players from the likes of roscrea and birr (and the masterson brothers) ending up at connacht... but we just don't have that professionalism level at AIL to make move movements worthwhile for the players.

thomond2006

Former Former wrote: »

It would appear that the Munster coaches don't agree.

Bear in mind that six academy players are currently self-isolating.

nerd69

And additionally keep in mind we've not had a game in months at his age that will have been significant. Quarantine or not he may not be in the team for first game back and a leinster game. The fact that the coaches are not pushing for someone to be brought in likely indicates they have some faith in him (not to mention he started a game last season)

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think the kiwi natives on here would know the ins and outs of this much better than me, but from the little i know from friends over there i dont think its as "centralized" as you might imagine, in that its not very NZRFU driven ... but actually more organic or education driven. A lot of it comes down to schooling and university and from that point of view there are equal opportunities throughout the islands .

i guess if you imagined a scenario where our AIL was properly professional and there was a lot more movement between younger players at that level ... but then the clubs within the provinces they played with still were the main feeders into the main provincial team.

we do get this here to a degree with school players from the likes of roscrea and birr (and the masterson brothers) ending up at connacht... but we just don't have that professionalism level at AIL to make move movements worthwhile for the players.

The movement is driven a lot by the players and the coaches with the NZRU "signing off" on it. I think it would only be if an AB wanted to move that NZRU would get involved in the negotiations, such as when Beauden decided to move to Auckland.

I think that one of the reasons players are happy to move SR franchises is because even if they were playing for their home franchise, they might have relocate to Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, ChCh or Dunedin any way. Those centres could be 2 to 5 hours drive from where the player lives normally and plays their NPC rugby.

One thing that is controlled by the NZRU, is injury replacements. If a SR franchise needs to call someone up during the season to cover for injuries, they can call up players from any where in the country. They aren't restricted to their own region. I don't know how useful this would be in Ireland.

lawrencesummers

Interesting piece in the guardian about cross boarder games and how the European Cup fixtures are not a dead Cert to happen yet. Will the latest government fumblings, the lack of a sitting Dail and the worry about how allowing some people bypass the isolation rules play out?

I don’t follow an Irish rugby hacks but I haven’t seen this given consideration anywhere Over here yet.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/20/quarantine-questions-put-european-rugby-schedules-on-razors-edge-the-breakdown?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

bilston

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Interesting piece in the guardian about cross boarder games and how the European Cup fixtures are not a dead Cert to happen yet. Will the latest government fumblings, the lack of a sitting Dail and the worry about how allowing some people bypass the isolation rules play out?

I don’t follow an Irish rugby hacks but I haven’t seen this given consideration anywhere Over here yet.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/20/quarantine-questions-put-european-rugby-schedules-on-razors-edge-the-breakdown?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Last I heard (maybe ROC on OTB), the IRFU were hoping for an exemption to quarantine rules.

However that was before the latest tightening of restrictions.

Even the Pro 14 play offs could get messy. Although I think there is a 2 week gap between the semi final and final.

Although I was thinking that if the final was held in Belfast you would avoid potential quarantine issues if say it was Edinburgh v Leinster or Munster in the final

Former Former

The FAI have been told their game in Bulgaria (not on green list) is OK to proceed, so there's obviously some kind of exemption.

lawrencesummers

bilston wrote: »

Last I heard (maybe ROC on OTB), the IRFU were hoping for an exemption to quarantine rules.

However that was before the latest tightening of restrictions.

Even the Pro 14 play offs could get messy. Although I think there is a 2 week gap between the semi final and final.

Although I was thinking that if the final was held in Belfast you would avoid potential quarantine issues if say it was Edinburgh v Leinster or Munster in the final

The use of Northern Ireland to sidestep the exemptions might not look great. A lot of this is about optics.

lawrencesummers

Former Former wrote: »

The FAI have been told their game in Bulgaria (not on green list) is OK to proceed, so there's obviously some kind of exemption.

But isn’t there a question mark about the UK based players joining the training squad here with no quarantine completed?

ScrubsfanChris

To anyone who disliked Eir Sports fake crowd noise, you should currently listen to the Champions league final, beyond insane.
Makes Eir's use of it incredibly subtle

Cookiemunster

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

To anyone who disliked Eir Sports fake crowd noise, you should currently listen to the Champions league final, beyond insane.
Makes Eir's use of it incredibly subtle

You obviously haven't watched any football since it returned in June then, because that's the norm.

ScrubsfanChris

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You obviously haven't watched any football since it returned in June then, because that's the norm.

Usually have no reason to

ionadnapokot

This is good to see.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1298562858716934144?s=20

Dave Alred go **** yourself
Ruined RO'G and Sexton

The Lost Sheep

Jack Regan has been named in Otago’s squad for the upcoming Mitre 10 Cup.

Japan pulling out of 8 nations apparently.

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Japan pulling out of 8 nations apparently.

The next 6-9 months are going to be very messy. The amount of money rugby will miss out on is going to be massive. The AIs and 6n (both 2020 and 2021) being staged are essential. GAA is talking about borrowing money now to get it through to Spring time.



For some context, Pakistan cricket board reckons they lost revenue worth ~$200 million in the last 11 years as a result of having to play all home series in the UAE in front of about 200 ppl and also not having any games v India outside of ICC tournaments to sell TV rights.

Eod100

Deleted User wrote: »

Japan pulling out of 8 nations apparently.

There there would be questions over whether Champions Cup could go ahead. I think 8 nations will be fairly tricky tbh

Cookiemunster

Eod100 wrote: »

There there would be questions over whether Champions Cup could go ahead. I think 8 nations will be fairly tricky tbh

The Champions Cup will go ahead. Elite sports teams will be given exemptions similar to essential workers.

Bohs were allowed into Lithuania for tonight's EL game even though travellers from Ireland are supposed to self isolate after entering the country.

The Lost Sheep

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Champions Cup will go ahead. Elite sports teams will be given exemptions similar to essential workers.

Bohs were allowed into Lithuania for tonight's EL game even though travellers from Ireland are supposed to self isolate after entering the country.

Elite sports people already have in Ireland and England so think rugby will be fine.

Burkie1203

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Champions Cup will go ahead. Elite sports teams will be given exemptions similar to essential workers.

Bohs were allowed into Lithuania for tonight's EL game even though travellers from Ireland are supposed to self isolate after entering the country.

Bohs are in Hungary?

Was it Derry that went to Lithuania?


It's not the exemptions that will be the issue. It's more the likes of what happened at stade Francais happening again which could scupper things.

Cookiemunster

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Bohs are in Hungary?

Was it Derry that went to Lithuania?


It's not the exemptions that will be the issue. It's more the likes of what happened at stade Francais happening again which could scupper things.

Yeah, I got that mixed up, it was Derry who were in Lithuania. I agree that an outbreak within a squad could scupper things, but Eod100s issue seems to be that he thinks that the teams will have to self isolate for 14 days after every trip.

Burkie1203

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Yeah, I got that mixed up, it was Derry who were in Lithuania. I agree that an outbreak within a squad could scupper things, but Eod100s issue seems to be that he thinks that the teams will have to self isolate for 14 days after every trip.

But if one player from a team just arriving back from an away game would then have to self isolate the whole team?

Clegg

South Africa are coming in as Japan's replacement apparently.

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/1300202909624397827?s=19

Dave_The_Sheep

Pity. I'd been looking forward to Japan getting a few hidings.

That's pretty huge news tbh.

Could you imagine South Africa in the Six Nations every year?

Cookiemunster

Hold on, I thought all travel out of SA was banned until 2021. Hence the reason the Cheetahs and Kings won't be playing in the Pro 14.

Former Former

Aren't they supposed to be playing in the rugby championship?