General Rugby Discussion II

arsebiscuits1

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

The priority was to healthcare workers, elderly and vulnerable and rightly so.

The vast majority of those cohorts have been done for around 2 months now. Anyone aged 65-69 was able to register to a jab for over 6 weeks in the republic

And has yet to receive their second dose so are not quite vaccinated yet.

Potential to make the case post-at-risk-cohort all being fully vaccinated, but in the interim - simply no is a fine answer imo.

Podge_irl

Nah, they moved away from profession based strategy for a reason. Even if they had stuck with it, shopworkers etc would be better candidates I think.

Squidgy Black

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

In the wake of the Ulster cancellation and the news of the Lions getting jabbed yesterday, I was musing.

Should pro rugby players and coaches/admin staff/ those in the "bubble" have been vaccinated months ago?

I don't think they should have been prioritised over elderly or vulnerable but they've adhered to a pretty full training and match schedule over the last few months.

I think essential worker is a bit of a generous term for them but it's clear that keeping sport going has been a priority to keep some sort of break from the monotony of this lockdown.

I'm aware that those vaccinated can still carry it (although there has been positive studies that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine appears to reduce transmission of Covid https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html)

In the Republic especially optics seems to have been the primary driver or some of the roll outs. They couldn't be seen to be favouring certain demographics or risk outrage which is frustrating to see.

Who cares if the politicians get them first. Personally I think all sitting Dail members should have been jabbed as early as possible.

In a similar case. I have a relative who works in an embassy in Asia. None of the Irish expats in country have received vaccines due to the perception that Govt officials will get vaccinated before the general Irish public. Multiple other expats from the majority of the developed world have received their jab months ago while the Irish are stuck between a rock and a hard place as they're essentially stranded until they get it.

Anyway - I didn't want to devolve this into a rant about the speed of vaccine roll out, I think it's going relatively well given this is unprecedented.

Bottom line I think if you were expected to continue as a high performance/ professional sports person - you should have gotten vaccinated at the earliest practical opportunity

Opens up a massive can of worms when you look at it that way.

Rugby players have limited interactions outside of their bubbles, and are rigorously tested.

There's a raft of people who are working with the general public who haven't been vaccinated yet, and it's an extremely slippy slope to go down when you start deciding who should get priority of vaccines outside of medical scenarios.

If you were to vaccinate all intercounty GAA players for all 4 codes, all League of Ireland football players, all provincial rugby players, you're looking at getting into the tens of thousands, which would've been doses taken away from later age groups like the 60s and 50s where there's higher risks. Especially considering professional athletes are going to be much healthier and a lot less risk of long term damage.

It's grand to say yeah it'd be nice to know that games wouldn't have been cancelled but if the rollout to any age groups was delayed and a family member ended up in ICU after they had to wait for another delivery of doses because a rugby player got a dose instead you'd probably do a 180 fairly fast.

OldRio

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Well constructed points there.

You built well on your premise from points 1 to 4 there but kind of lost your way when trying to wrap up the conclusion :pac:

OK. The roll out of vaccine has been done correctly IMHO. The only change I would make would be for shopworkers and transport workers..
Many people, myself included, are awaiting our second dose. The idea of professional athletes jumping the queue is wrong IMHO

pickarooney

I think they should have vaccinated all the rugby players from day one and not told anyone. I'm all for pragmatics before optics.

BTW I hate the word 'cohort' and boards' obsession with the word.

Jerry Attrick

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s worth a shot at the appeal, he’ll may never play again anyway, atleast not likely in the Premiership so the risk of an extra few weeks isn’t relevant to him! Like when Zidane was banned after he had retired! It means nothing!

Appeal dismissed.

Mike Brown’s Harlequins career is officially over after his appeal against a six-week ban was rejected.

The former England full back received the suspension after being sent off for a “highly reckless” accidental stamp on the head of an opponent, the Wasps hooker Tommy Taylor, on May 9.

Brown, 35, pleaded guilty and while the original three-person panel accepted that his actions had not been deliberate, it decided by majority that the offence was worthy of a top-end entry point. That carried a 12-week ban, reduced to six because of Brown’s clean disciplinary record and other mitigating factors.

Brown, who is leaving Harlequins for Newcastle Falcons in the summer after failing to reach agreement on a new contract, launched an appeal on the grounds that the panel made a decision “no other reasonable body would have made”. It is one of only four possible avenues for a player to appeal against the findings of a rugby disciplinary panel.

The appeal was heard last night and rejected. The original sanction stands, which means Brown will miss the rest of the regular season and the Gallagher Premiership play-offs. The Times

Captain_Crash

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Appeal dismissed.

Yeah saw that! He never stood a chance really, it was blatant to begin with!

RugbyLover123

Henry Slade in the Telegraph saying he won’t take the Covid vaccine. I wonder would that impact his chances on being called up to the Lions.

Dave_The_Sheep

More than being Henry Slade?

Squidgy Black

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Henry Slade in the Telegraph saying he won’t take the Covid vaccine. I wonder would that impact his chances on being called up to the Lions.

What is it about that entire Exeter team, first it was Baxter saying they should stop testing, then Nowell saying it's ridiculous to not allow fans in at the height of the UK's cases, and now Slade saying he doesn't trust the vaccine.

Shaka Hislop

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Henry Slade in the Telegraph saying he won’t take the Covid vaccine. I wonder would that impact his chances on being called up to the Lions.

Could impact his entire playing future, fully vaccinated teams can't be setting up isolation bubbles for one player over groundless fears.

sprucemoose

Squidgy Black wrote: »

What is it about that entire Exeter team, first it was Baxter saying they should stop testing, then Nowell saying it's ridiculous to not allow fans in at the height of the UK's cases, and now Slade saying he doesn't trust the vaccine.

i wonder in the full interview did he say he didnt think it was tested enough in relation to diabetes. could be sensationalist journalism and if so then fair enough he might have a point (i dont personally how much research has been done in relation to possible effects for diabetes patients but i imagine its probably sufficient), otherwise hes a gowl

Squidgy Black

sprucemoose wrote: »

i wonder in the full interview did he say he didnt think it was tested enough in relation to diabetes. could be sensationalist journalism and if so then fair enough he might have a point (i dont personally how much research has been done in relation to possible effects for diabetes patients but i imagine its probably sufficient), otherwise hes a gowl

This is the full quote, it's a bit of the above but a lot of just "I don't want it":

“I am not going to have a vaccine. I don’t agree with it at all. I don’t think you can trust it, can you?,” he said during an interview with The Telegraph.

“I don’t think it has been going long. There is no way of knowing what could happen with it in the future. I am perfectly fit and healthy. I don’t fancy it at all.

“There is no way of knowing what it could do. I have had vaccines in the past and have fallen pretty unwell with them afterwards. I don’t know if that has anything to do with the diabetes or not. I am going to stay away from this one.

“We test three, four times a week anyway, so you know if you have something.”

sydthebeat

Slade doesnt come across as being the most intellectual thinker to be honest.

hes free of course like anyone to choose not to take it, but as a diabetic, ... its INCREDIBLY stupid from him...and EVEN MORE STUPID to be announcing in an interview.

someone saying they dont "trust" a vaccine is the very same as someone denying that vaccines work. These people should be outed in public for their ignorance and stupidity.

aloooof

Squidgy Black wrote: »

What is it about that entire Exeter team, first it was Baxter saying they should stop testing, then Nowell saying it's ridiculous to not allow fans in at the height of the UK's cases, and now Slade saying he doesn't trust the vaccine.

They definitely taking up the Saracens mantle for being unlikable.

connemara man

sydthebeat wrote: »

Slade doesnt come across as being the most intellectual thinker to be honest.

hes free of course like anyone to choose not to take it, but as a diabetic, and going to a covid melting pot... its INCREDIBLY stupid from him...and EVEN MORE STUPID to be announcing in an interview.

someone saying they dont "trust" a vaccine is the very same as someone denying that vaccines work. These people should be outed in public for their ignorance and stupidity.

The article does repeatedly say that doctors say to get the vaccine as he offered it up without being asked about it

sydthebeat

connemara man wrote: »

The article does repeatedly say that doctors say to get the vaccine as he offered it up without being asked about it

no amount of "doctors say you should take the vaccine" could make up for even one person deciding not to take it because of what slade said...

i just copped of course that slade isnt with the lions this year. convenient.

arsebiscuits1

Squidgy Black wrote: »

This is the full quote, it's a bit of the above but a lot of just "I don't want it":

“I am not going to have a vaccine. I don’t agree with it at all. I don’t think you can trust it, can you?,” he said during an interview with The Telegraph.

“I don’t think it has been going long. There is no way of knowing what could happen with it in the future. I am perfectly fit and healthy. I don’t fancy it at all.

“There is no way of knowing what it could do. I have had vaccines in the past and have fallen pretty unwell with them afterwards. I don’t know if that has anything to do with the diabetes or not. I am going to stay away from this one.

“We test three, four times a week anyway, so you know if you have something.”

The utter arrogance of someone to disregard thousands of highly qualified people with hundreds of millions of research behind them is baffling.

And it's a real pick and choose scenario.

Whose to say his insulin wont have adverse effects in the long run? One bad batch and he could be finished. The chances of getting a bad dose are not nil yet I'm sure he takes that daily.

What of his various supplements? Despite research there is still a chance that something might adversely affect him in later life

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

someone saying they dont "trust" a vaccine is the very same as someone denying that vaccines work. These people should be outed in public for their ignorance and stupidity.

There's a major difference, IMO. You can recognise that a vaccine works for its intended purpose and not trust that there won't be any long-term side-effects.

The scientific method depends on consistent results over an extended period and not the assumption that a new discovery will perform as intended and only as intended.

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

There's a major difference, IMO. You can recognise that a vaccine works for its intended purpose and not trust that there won't be any long-term side-effects.

The scientific method depends on consistent results over an extended period and not the assumption that a new discovery will perform as intended and only as intended.

and there has to be a realisation of course that vaccine hesitancy is a major obstacle towards the reopening of the world and if very single person had slades opinion then we'd never get out of this.

theres a reason diabetics are considered part of the most vulnerable group, as to be infected means your statistically more at risk of serious complications.

so slade is essentially here having his cake and eating it.

these words are his own, and are damning IMO. there are akin to vaccine-denying.

“I am not going to have a vaccine. I don’t agree with it at all"
"i just think there hasnt been anywhere near enough testing to deem it safe"

Dave_The_Sheep

Slade makes comment via club, attempting to clarify what he said in a better light, basically doubles down with more polite language. Eejit.

https://twitter.com/nickheathsport/status/1398290936468324354?s=21

sydthebeat

nice statement PR'ed to death....

to give him his dues, as ive said already he doesnt come across as the sharpest tack, so maybe his choice of words and the way he framed his response didnt convey what he meant to say.

still, he didnt come out and endorse the vaccination program, did he....

Former Former Former

Henry Slade : I'm young and healthy, I don't need a vaccine.

Also Henry Slade : I have type 1 diabetes and have to constantly monitor my health.

Not the brightest I'd say.

AbusesToilets

2 points. Why not simply allow businesses to purchase vaccine access if desired? Said funds could be put towards assisting the overall effort. I'm fairly astounded at the slow pace of the vaccination drive in Ireland. The Us generally shat the bed this past year, but are crushing vaccinations compared to Europe.

I also thinks it's pretty insulting to denigrate someone for having legitimate concerns about the long term potential impacts of these vaccines. Both the technology, and roll out are unprecedented. That is an entirely justifiable position to take. There is a reason all of the vaccines are classified as Emergency Use, at least in the US context. Is it likely that they will be shown to be perfectly safe? I would think so. That's not a certainty however.

arsebiscuits1

AbusesToilets wrote: »

2 points. Why not simply allow businesses to purchase vaccine access if desired? Said funds could be put towards assisting the overall effort. I'm fairly astounded at the slow pace of the vaccination drive in Ireland. The Us generally shat the bed this past year, but are crushing vaccinations compared to Europe.

I also thinks it's pretty insulting to denigrate someone for having legitimate concerns about the long term potential impacts of these vaccines. Both the technology, and roll out are unprecedented. That is an entirely justifiable position to take. There is a reason all of the vaccines are classified as Emergency Use, at least in the US context. Is it likely that they will be shown to be perfectly safe? I would think so. That's not a certainty however.

Questioning the long term effects of a vaccine while simultaneously saying one is young and healthy and likely won't be adversely affected by a disease which we know nothing about the long term effects doesn't really make sense though

AbusesToilets

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Questioning the long term effects of a vaccine while simultaneously saying one is young and healthy and likely won't be adversely affected by a disease which we know nothing about the long term effects doesn't really make sense though

He's not wrong tho. He's exactly in the demographic least likely to have a serious response to infection.

arsebiscuits1

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He's not wrong tho. He's exactly in the demographic least likely to have a serious response to infection.

And in the demographic least likely to be adversely affected by vaccines.

Squidgy Black

AbusesToilets wrote: »

2 points. Why not simply allow businesses to purchase vaccine access if desired? Said funds could be put towards assisting the overall effort. I'm fairly astounded at the slow pace of the vaccination drive in Ireland. The Us generally shat the bed this past year, but are crushing vaccinations compared to Europe.

Because that's a surefire way to drive the price of the vaccines through the roof, and delivery of the vaccines are limited as it is. It's taken quite some time for production to meet current demand.

Allowing private groups to buy them just leads to the highest bidder and governments not being able to afford them.

Sangre

Former Former Former wrote: »

Henry Slade : I'm young and healthy, I don't need a vaccine.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He's not wrong tho. He's exactly in the demographic least likely to have a serious response to infection.

The whole 'but I'm healthy' is incredibly selfish as well. We haven't been in lockdown for c.12 months because we are worried about professional athletes dying from Covid.

Bazzo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I also thinks it's pretty insulting to denigrate someone for having legitimate concerns about the long term potential impacts of these vaccines. Both the technology, and roll out are unprecedented. That is an entirely justifiable position to take. There is a reason all of the vaccines are classified as Emergency Use, at least in the US context. Is it likely that they will be shown to be perfectly safe? I would think so. That's not a certainty however.

It's not though. It's an unbelievably selfish position to take. Even suspending disbelief for a second and assuming there might be long term effects of the vaccine, the alternative is to continue in the covid hell we've all been in for the past year... Which is obviously not acceptable. Failing to vaccinate to herd immunity gives the virus rampant opportunity to mutate around vaccines - putting the vulnerable back at risk. And taking the opinion "I won't get it because only 70% need to" makes you a selfish twat, because it inherently relies on 70% of people being less selfish than you.