General Rugby Discussion II

Jump_In_Jack

Former Former wrote: »

Jesus, that Peter Rob Horne news puts Warburton in perspective. Poor bastard.

FYP

Devastating for Rob Horne, I hope through therapy or further surgery there is some hope he can regain function in his arm.

It was such an innocuous hit, bit of a freak to be so severely injured, kind of put his shoulder into the carriers elbow but nothing about it would suggest the potential for so much damage.

bilston

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Fookn hell

https://twitter.com/RugbyInsideLine/status/1019567624760459264?s=19

I'm rugby mad but Injuries like that would make me think twice about letting my kids play rugby.

Horrendous stuff.

razorblunt

In fairness your kid could have that kind of accident in the schoolyard or green outside the house. Complete freak accident.
Saw a picture of him at the final Northampton game of the season and he was holding his kid in one arm while the other was in a sling.
Really hits home.

Burkie1203

What a price tag

https://twitter.com/Rubbish_No3/status/1021818525076344834?s=19

Squidgy Black

Burkie1203 wrote: »

What a price tag

https://twitter.com/Rubbish_No3/status/1021818525076344834?s=19

That's the 'players test jersey's not the standard supporters one.

They're always more expensive.

Quin_Dub

Samoa Sevens Player arrested and charged with GBH

Apparently he got stuck into a few Welsh players in the tunnel after a game , broke a guys nose & cheekbone..

Not good at all.

irishbucsfan

3 felony counts, that is not going to end well for him.

Dubinusa

Ben Foden to N.Y rugby. That's great news for NPR. The sport will grow over here and I predict the U.s will be a tier 1 nation in the future. 10 years or so.

umop episdn

Dubinusa wrote: »

Ben Foden to N.Y rugby. That's great news for NPR. The sport will grow over here and I predict the U.s will be a tier 1 nation in the future. 10 years or so.

When I read that it reminded me of Pelé saying an African nation would win the world cup in the 90's.
Unless the USA teams get some meaningful international club competition, they won't progress too far on the world stage with only world cup qualification games etc to play ..imo

Dubinusa

Just noticed that Dom Ryan is not on the Tigers webpage. Has he been cut?

ScrubsfanChris

https://twitter.com/threeredkings/status/1023167640108519424 :pac:

ScrubsfanChris

I know it was only a pre season game against Brazil, but Zebo scored his first try for Racing after 2 minutes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/status/1023320975402827778

kuang1

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

I know it was only a pre season game against Brazil, but Zebo scored his first try for Racing after 2 minutes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/status/1023320975402827778

He looks a bit chunkier to me. Like he's added some muscle mass.

stephen_n

kuang1 wrote: »

He looks a bit chunkier to me. Like he's added some muscle mass.

Not sure if you were being polite or that’s sarcasm.

awec

Looks fat to me.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

Looks fat to me.

"Big boned" or a "slow metabolism".

It's interesting given there was talk of the reason he fell out of favour with Joe was because of his training habits and keeping the weight down, and as soon as he leaves the country he's mimicking Andy Goode.

thomond2006

Did he fall out of favour with Joe? He was dropped because he announced his move no?

kuang1

stephen_n wrote: »

Not sure if you were being polite or that’s sarcasm.

Actually I wrote "he looks a bit chunkier to me" then thought it sounded a bit too harsh and added the muscle mass thing.

The 100% true version is that as I watched the clip I didn't realise it was Zebo that had received the pop pass and I was waiting to see him appear in shot to receive the final pass and trot over the line.

awec

Been enjoying the French cuisine and wine I'd say.

DGRulz

Not sure if it's the frame rate of the video but he seems to have slowed down a bit too.

stephen_n

kuang1 wrote: »

Actually I wrote "he looks a bit chunkier to me" then thought it sounded a bit too harsh and added the muscle mass thing.

The 100% true version is that as I watched the clip I didn't realise it was Zebo that had received the pop pass and I was waiting to see him appear in shot to receive the final pass and trot over the line.

In fairness he had put on a fair few pounds last season before he left, don’t think he’s fond of the strict diet thing.

Former Former

Horizontal stripes always make you look fatter.

(Zebo has been overweight for a good while now)

Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

Did he fall out of favour with Joe? He was dropped because he announced his move no?

He fell out of favour with Joe when he told Joe that he didn't want to play for him.

Looks like fat Ronaldo tbh

Former Former

Teferi wrote: »

He fell out of favour with Joe when he told Joe that he didn't want to play for him.

But he only decided he didn't want to play for Joe because Joe didn't favour him.

Dubinusa

He does look bigger!! I think he'll be grand for Racing. He's a quality player and a natural athlete. His weakness is mental imo.

thomond2006

Former Former wrote: »

But he only decided he didn't want to play for Joe because Joe didn't favour him.

He started every game in the 2017 Six Nations. When exactly did this not in favour period begin?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Six_Nations_Championship?wprov=sfla1

He had his go at Joe when he was already out of picture after he announced his move to Racing prior to the 2017 AIs.

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

He started every game in the 2017 Six Nations. When exactly did this not in favour period begin?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Six_Nations_Championship?wprov=sfla1

He had his go at Joe when he was already out of picture after he announced his move to Racing prior to the 2017 AIs.

Yes, Schmidt always favoured Zebo, he only stopped being picked once it was announced he was leaving.

I am certain that he would have picked up further caps in the AIs and 6N if he were remaining a Munster player. At the very least he'd have been selected ahead of Larmour on more than one occasion.

Former Former

thomond2006 wrote: »

He started every game in the 2017 Six Nations. When exactly did this not in favour period begin?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Six_Nations_Championship?wprov=sfla1

He had his go at Joe when he was already out of picture after he announced his move to Racing prior to the 2017 AIs.

It started when Joe took over. It was pretty well documented back then. It improved somewhat but never to the point where he was "favoured" - or maybe it depends on your definition of that word.

Zebo picked up a lot of caps - mainly when the players Joe genuinely preferred were not available.

The 2017 Six Nations, Zebo got five starts, fair enough, but Luke Fitz had retired, Bowe was on his last legs and Dave Kearney and Trimble were injured. The next players off the rank were Gilroy, who Joe really hates, and the uncapped Conway. Zebo starting ahead of them is not particularly meaningful.

He was never particularly rated by Joe, he knew it. This idea of "oh, I always wanted to play in France" is fair enough - but a year before the World Cup, with Ireland at their highest ever rankings? Why would anyone bail out of their national team then?? He knew where he stood and he didn't see any point hanging around. He knew he was going to continue as a supporting actor and I don't think that ever sat well with him. He'd have been looking at Stockdale's subsequent performances and telling himself he did the right thing.

He never particularly made peace with being dropped for the final day of the 2015 Six Nations win, or being completely sidelined at the 2015 RWC.

Edit; he would also have watched with interest as the central contracts held by Bowe and Trimble expired without one being offered to him. Given that it left Earls as the only winger with a central deal, there's a reasonable chance he was expecting to get a step up.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

Yes, Schmidt always favoured Zebo, he only stopped being picked once it was announced he was leaving.

I am certain that he would have picked up further caps in the AIs and 6N if he were remaining a Munster player. At the very least he'd have been selected ahead of Larmour on more than one occasion.

I don’t think that’s even close to true, as there are probably thousands of posts from irate Munster fans on here about him not getting picked. Especially when we needed some x-factor. He was very much the Craig Gilroy/TOH of Munster for a long time. He only cemented his starting place in the team over the last 12-18 months previous. Clearly he wasn’t happy with what that required either, thus his pop at Joe.

awec

stephen_n wrote: »

I don’t think that’s even close to true, as there are probably thousands of posts from irate Munster fans on here about him not getting picked. Especially when we needed some x-factor. He was very much the Craig Gilroy/TOH of Munster for a long time. He only cemented his starting place in the team over the last 12-18 months previous. Clearly he wasn’t happy with what that required either, thus his pop at Joe.

It's true, the caps are there to see.

When he was fit he was selected much more often than not.

29 caps under Schmidt, not bad for a player "not fancied". Only Earls and Kearney were selected more often by my count.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

It's true, the caps are there to see.

When he was fit he was selected much more often than not.

29 caps under Schmidt, not bad for a player "not fancied". Only Earls and Kearney were selected more often by my count.

Except for a couple of 6 Nations campaigns and throughout an entire World Cup.

Dubinusa

Who are centrally contracted?

Former Former

Dubinusa wrote: »

Who are centrally contracted?

Kearney, Earls, Henshaw, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Stander.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Except for a couple of 6 Nations campaigns and throughout an entire World Cup.

He missed one 6 Nations campaign, the second was because he was leaving.

Again, 29 caps. People can spin it whatever way they want to try make their point, but the facts are there. By my count Kearney has been capped 40 times by Schmidt, Earls 31 times and Zebo 29. Not bad for a player who is supposedly not favoured.

He is not an amazing player, but some seem to want to rewrite history ever since he said that negative thing about Schmidt.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

He missed one 6 Nations campaign, the second was because he was leaving.

Again, 29 caps. People can spin it whatever way they want to try make their point, but the facts are there. By my count Kearney has been capped 40 times by Schmidt, Earls 31 times and Zebo 29. Not bad for a player who is supposedly not favoured.

He is not an amazing player, but some seem to want to rewrite history ever since he said that negative thing about Schmidt.

It doesn't need to be spun. You're the one spinning it by using a raw number of caps. He did get a few starts under Schmidt and established himself for a period but that was at a time when our depth was being tested on the wing and at 15 and it was pretty clear Schmidt was never comfortable with him as an option. Particularly in the World Cup when it counted.

If Zebo would have played in the last 6 Nations, it would have been from the bench anyway. His only future in that squad was as a potential option at 15 if Kearney had declined and no alternative emerged.

Former Former

I think the problem is with the word "favoured" and what it means.

Did Joe favour Zebo? Yes and no.

He favoured him less than Bowe, Trimble, Earls, either Kearney or Luke Fitz. He favoured him more than McFadden, Gilroy, TOH and Felix Jones. So I dunno, draw your own conclusions on whether he was "favoured" or not. I would say he was not. At no point would Zebo ever have been part of a fully-fit 23.

Only Earls and Rob Kearney remain in the picture and Zebo was never displacing them; but going into 2019, would Joe have favoured Stockdale, Larmour or Conway more than Zebo? Who knows - but Zebo himself wasn't hanging around to find out and I think that tells its own story.

The 29 caps is a red herring btw. Bowe, Trimble, Earls, both Kearneys and Luke Fitz have two things in common - Joe liked them and they had horrendous injury records. Zebo hoovered up a lot of caps just by staying fit. That won't go down well but it's true.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

He favoured him less than Bowe, Trimble, Earls, either Kearney or Luke Fitz. He favoured him more than McFadden, Gilroy, TOH and Felix Jones.

And for periods early into his tenure, even McFadden was firmly ahead of Zebo

Buer

I can't comprehend how someone could even try to argue against the idea that Zebo wasn't a popular player for Schmidt. It's ludicrous. He wasn't even selected in a squad for the first year. He was selected in the 2015 6N when there were injuries before being dropped completely from the 23 for the final crunch game. He was out of the 23 for the RWC behind DK and Fitz. He wasn't in the team for the 2016 6N but got into it later on when RK was out injured. He was even dropped to the bench after the win over NZ.

2017 was the only 6N campaign where he was in the team for all the games. And that was with Fitz having retired the previous summer, Trimble and Bowe being put out to pasture along with Kearney and Payne both being injured at times.

molloyjh

Yeah, you can look at the caps without the context of them and come to a conclusion in the same way you can look at a players raw stats from a game and come to a conclusion on their performance. At times you'll be right, but at times you'll be wrong. It's an incredibly flawed way of looking at things. As has been said, Zebo hoovered up a lot of minutes due to injury to his competition. But when players were fit and available he was generally behind Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Luke Fitz, Keith Earls and Fergus McFadden over the last few years. That those guys all had their injury issues over the last few years meant that Zebo probably got a lot more opportunities than he may otherwise have gotten. Saying he'd have picked up more caps at Jordan Larmours expense doesn't exactly back up the idea that he was "favoured".

He said it himself, he didn't suit the way Joe wanted to play. He knew it, and Joe knew it as well. Just because he only went public with that after the move was announced doesn't mean it wasn't said between them before that. And even if it wasn't, I'm sure they both knew anyway.

arsebiscuits1

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just noticed that Dom Ryan is not on the Tigers webpage. Has he been cut?

Rumour over on LF that he's had to retire with concussion issues and will be taking legal action against Leicester.

No idea about the truth behind it though. Massive shame if he's had to call a day though

prawnsambo

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Rumour over on LF that he's had to retire with concussion issues and will be taking legal action against Leicester.

No idea about the truth behind it though. Massive shame if he's had to call a day though

Well there was some discussion about an incident in a game against Northampton where he sustained what looked like a concussion but wasn't given a HIA.

He was subsequently stood down for 12 weeks, a couple of matches after the incident.

Sangre

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Rumour over on LF that he's had to retire with concussion issues and will be taking legal action against Leicester.

No idea about the truth behind it though. Massive shame if he's had to call a day though

If it is true, it may be his insurers taking action on his behalf for contributory negligence rather than Dom himself having a particular issue with the club.

Dubinusa

He is a good player. Shame if true. I remember reading something about his issues months ago. I think they did play him whilst he was concussed. If true ,talk about mismanagement.

prawnsambo

Sangre wrote: »

If it is true, it may be his insurers taking action on his behalf for contributory negligence rather than Dom himself having a particular issue with the club.

It doesn't look good tbh. After he was injured against Northampton, he came off the bench in the next match against Gloucester and lasted three minutes, he started the next one agaiinst Harlequins and lasted 17 minutes. He was subsequently stood down for twelve weeks.

Interesting article in the Guardian about Jones. Have to say I'm finding Eddie's tenure to be very interesting, they looked invincible for 12 months and despite picking up a further six nations have looked in decline since. Ireland went through a similar patch after our first two six nations wins though we never looked quite as impressive as they did in 2016. We also never dipped nearly as far as they have and are now probably in our best situation ever.

It looks like the RFU are prepared to pull the plug if November is more of the same. I didn't realise England were playing Australia, as well as New Zealand, Japan and South Africa.

There is no way they'll lose to Japan and it would be a hugely ironic and automatic regime change if they did. I don't expect them to beat the All Blacks and I'd not be confident in calling the South Africa / Australia games.

I think 2/4 should be enough to see Jones stay on until the World cup and I think that's doable. The RFU aren't playing softball though and it might be they won't accept anything below 3/4. If Jones is sacked his win / lose rate will still be sensationally high, 70%+ stuff which would make looking back on his time in charge a very interesting and most likely polarising one.

I'm convinced the dressing room is gone and his public persona doesn't strike me as the sort to mend bridges. The players seem utterly frustrated and I can't see this saga having a happy ending at this point. I think England will beat South Africa and Japan and lose to Australia and New Zealand and I wouldn't at all be surprised if the RFU seriously consider a last minute world cup change with the six nations as a bedding in period.

I think they'd be right too.

Dubinusa

If they sort out the discipline problems, I think they're a different proposition. Responsibility cuts both ways and I think certain players on the team are just penalty machines and irresponsible.
Also, Jones seems to be loyal to players who I think are past the level required. Although Jones is a langer. he still is a quality coach. I think Robshaw and Brown have to go. Ford to the bench and Farrell to 10. The Br is a shambles without Billy V. Armand should start imo and Itoje should be at 6.
Overall they still could be formidable and I think could win the rwc, but Jones needs to change his demeanor, his squad and get a hold of the discipline.

sydthebeat

i think eddies being found out as a bit of a cod.

hes trialled a sh!t load of players even Marc Lievremont would be embarrassed.
he has broken so many players, without getting any tangible reward, which pisses off the club set up.
his teams are plagued with discipline issues on the field.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting article in the Guardian about Jones. Have to say I'm finding Eddie's tenure to be very interesting, they looked invincible for 12 months and despite picking up a further six nations have looked in decline since. Ireland went through a similar patch after our first two six nations wins though we never looked quite as impressive as they did in 2016. We also never dipped nearly as far as they have and are now probably in our best situation ever.

Yeah, when you consider that our trough consisted of a 3rd place finish and a 2nd place finish in the 6Ns, a very tight series loss in SA while we were missing a load of first string players and a first ever victory over NZ. Our longest losing streak in that time was 2 games. Compared to Englands drop to 5th in the 6Ns, a 10 game (?) losing streak and a fairly decisive enough series loss in SA, that's pretty good.

It's still a small sample we're looking at though. Teams can go through dips like that. The question is whether they can now turn that around. And we won't really know if they can, or how successfully they can, until March.