General Rugby Discussion II

Former Former

Something didn't add up. Bristol sent him out on loan twice in one season, which is a bad enough sign, but they did so despite having an injury crisis in the second row. For a guy with international caps and playing at a second tier side, that's very odd.

thomond2006

Leonardo Sarto appears to still be a free agent after leaving Glasgow. Irish Rugby owes this man a contract!

wp_rathead

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leonardo Sarto appears to still be a free agent after leaving Glasgow. Irish Rugby owes this man a contract!

My god imagine Zebre with back three of Sarto, Minozzi and D'Onofrio (was class at this season's u20 rwc)

FACECUTTR

George Smith signs as medical joker for Bristol on a 6 month deal.
Can't believe the man is still going. What a fantastic player.

errlloyd

FACECUTTR wrote: »

George Smith signs as medical joker for Bristol on a 6 month deal.
Can't believe the man is still going. What a fantastic player.

He got his 100th test cap before Leinster had ever won a Heineken Cup. If he had stuck to test rugby I reckon he'd have hit two hundred. He's been good enough to pick up caps for most of the last decade.

Yeah_Right

He was only 29 (I think) when he retired from test rugby the first time. Phenomenal player and really good guy.

Professor Moriarty

Yeah_Right wrote: »

He was only 29 (I think) when he retired from test rugby the first time. Phenomenal player and really good guy.

He'll be 38 if he plays for Bristol. Incredible longevity for a pro and especially for a back row player.

pickarooney

How does a team require a medical joker in June?

FACECUTTR

pickarooney wrote: »

How does a team require a medical joker in June?

3 backrows injured. Heenan's not back training yet after that surgery which is not good.

thomond2006

France shafted by a ref call for the third game in a row. Lacey clearly blocked Serin.

thomond2006

France screwed.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

France shafted by a ref call for the third game in a row. Lacey clearly blocked Serin.

And then I'm told obstructing defenders by an official isn't in the laws...

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

And then I'm told obstructing defenders by an official isn't in the laws...

They can bring it back for a scrum to restart play. That was an absurdly poor call.

swiwi_

thomond2006 wrote: »

And then I'm told obstructing defenders by an official isn't in the laws...

Podge_irl wrote: »

They can bring it back for a scrum to restart play. That was an absurdly poor call.

I thought it was an awful bit of refereeing by Lacey and, judging by the question he asked, he didn't know the law either. But, thomond is actually correct, here is the current law

Current law: If the ball or the ball-carrier touches the referee or other non-player and neither team gains an advantage, play continues. If either team gains an advantage in the field of play, a scrum is awarded to the team that last played the ball.

A NZ journalist suggested changing the law

New Law: If the ball or any player touches the referee or other non-player and neither team gains an advantage, play continues. If either team gains an advantage in the field of play, a scrum is awarded to the team that last played the ball.

Seems like a sensible law amendment to me.

Neil3030

Law 19 (The Scrum) mentions the following: The referee awards a scrum for any other reason not covered in law.

Seems like Lacey could have done this.

Pg 92 here

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

Law 19 (The Scrum) mentions the following: The referee awards a scrum for any other reason not covered in law.

Seems like Lacey could have done this.

Pg 92 here

He could have and its been done before.

Its entirely obvious what should have happened. It was astonishingly poor refereeing.

MJohnston

We may have lost Furlong's try last week of that rule had been different, as the referee definitely got in the way of a defender on the try line. Whether Furlong would have still mowed him down is up for debate.

Buer

MJohnston wrote: »

We may have lost Furlong's try last week of that rule had been different, as the referee definitely got in the way of a defender on the try line. Whether Furlong would have still mowed him down is up for debate.

It would be incredibly harsh under any interpretation to disallow that try. Phipps had nudged the referee out of the way who reacted immediately to move. By the time the ball was secured by Furlong, Phipps (who was offside anyway), had a clear run at him.

MJohnston

Buer wrote: »

It would be incredibly harsh under any interpretation to disallow that try. Phipps had nudged the referee out of the way who reacted immediately to move. By the time the ball was secured by Furlong, Phipps (who was offside anyway), had a clear run at him.

I'm just saying there's an argument to be made that Phipps' momentum was delayed due to the ref being in the way.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/patmccarry/status/1011225203731587074?s=19

Yeah_Right

A discussion on the OT thread about VAR moved to TMOs and rugby refs so I thought it should move here.

Yes France didn't get the rub of the green in their series and Ireland had some 50:50 calls go against them over the June matches. However I don't think it was any worse than usual. If you ask a lot of kiwi, Aussie, PI or Bok fans they will say their team gets screwed over every year in the AIs.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A discussion on the OT thread about VAR moved to TMOs and rugby refs so I thought it should move here.

Yes France didn't get the rub of the green in their series and Ireland had some 50:50 calls go against them over the June matches. However I don't think it was any worse than usual. If you ask a lot of kiwi, Aussie, PI or Bok fans they will say their team gets screwed over every year in the AIs.

Just to answer this here:

Deleted User wrote: »

Has to be said though, the Summer internationals delivered some of the most inconsistent and poor referee performances I've seen in a test window like this.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm not so sure about this. I think it might be a case of Ireland being on the receiving end of some harsh, strange or possibly inconsistent decisions in a tight series has skewed your perception. Also the fact there is a higher level of expectation of success amongst Irish fans and media, these decisions get more scrutiny. I know that I have watched mid year and autumn series in the past and I couldn't believe some of the things refs and citing commissioners let go or missed.

I don't disagree with you but I'd be of the mind that Australia have a few things to be unhappy about also - but definitely some of the big calls that were extremely inconsistent (as in differing interpretations within the one game) went against Ireland at key moments.

I also think France have a fair bit to be sore about (won't go into specifics but I think you know what I mean).

Beyond this there were a lot of smaller things, clear knock on's not giving advantage to the other team (happened twice in the 3rd Aus Ireland game and once in the South African second test) which is just sloppy to me from both Ref and TMO.

The interpretation around the breakdown was somewhat uniform across the various test series but similarly we have 3 officials on the pitch and a TMO and yet offside is continually a thing.

There is massive inconsistency and inaccuracy in awarding cards for offences and I think this test series really show cased that in dramatic fashion.

Perhaps my view is coloured by the Australia Ireland tests - they were poor in my opinion, but I've watched a lot of rugby the last 3 weeks and there have been a lot of head scrathers.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

I've watched a lot of rugby the last 3 weeks and there have been a lot of head scrathers.

I think there's a special shampoo for that.

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to answer this here:





I don't disagree with you but I'd be of the mind that Australia have a few things to be unhappy about also - but definitely some of the big calls that were extremely inconsistent (as in differing interpretations within the one game) went against Ireland at key moments.

I also think France have a fair bit to be sore about (won't go into specifics but I think you know what I mean).

Beyond this there were a lot of smaller things, clear knock on's not giving advantage to the other team (happened twice in the 3rd Aus Ireland game and once in the South African second test) which is just sloppy to me from both Ref and TMO.

The interpretation around the breakdown was somewhat uniform across the various test series but similarly we have 3 officials on the pitch and a TMO and yet offside is continually a thing.

There is massive inconsistency and inaccuracy in awarding cards for offences and I think this test series really show cased that in dramatic fashion.

Perhaps my view is coloured by the Australia Ireland tests - they were poor in my opinion, but I've watched a lot of rugby the last 3 weeks and there have been a lot of head scrathers.

Absolutely agree that there were some bad calls made over the last few weeks. And some of them were by experienced refs. The big issue is inconsistency especially when it comes to things like cards because they can obviously have a huge impact on the result.

I guess I didn't think it was any worse than normal and I have gotten used to this inconsistency because as an All Blacks fan I'm used to being shafted by the refs. I know a lot of you here probably think I'm taking the piss but look at what other teams used to do to Richie McCaw and get away with.

sydthebeat

I think what it has shown is that beyond the 3 or 4 top level refs, there's a lot of mediocrity.
However these are the games that these refs advance from. No doubt there will be long dissection by the top tier ref panel on these games. (hopefully John lacey calls himself out on his horror act). This can only be good for this tier of ref

I said before the second test that Paul Williams is a good ref and I stand by it, even if some of the hyperbole are the game suggested it was the worst refereeing performance ever in the history of sport. He's a guy who had played at a decent level and has a "style" of refereeing in that he isn't very directorial. That may work OK at super rugby level when the play is constantly shifting, but at test level he needs to be a lot more vocal around ruck time or we end up with the penalty fest (27 total compared to 22 in the first game)

stephen_n

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A discussion on the OT thread about VAR moved to TMOs and rugby refs so I thought it should move here.

Yes France didn't get the rub of the green in their series and Ireland had some 50:50 calls go against them over the June matches. However I don't think it was any worse than usual. If you ask a lot of kiwi, Aussie, PI or Bok fans they will say their team gets screwed over every year in the AIs.

Certainly in the Aus v Ire series, I don’t think there was any advantage (homer decisions), just a lot of dubious calls both ways. Some of which were glaring inconsitencies within the same games.

PTH2009

Anyone watch the all blacks doc series on Amazon prime ??? (Signed up for a cheeky trial to watch it lol)

Really enjoyed and really shows there passion for the sport. There ruthless and the fans/media have no fear of voicing there opinions on a bad performance/loss

Squidgy Black

Reports that Chris Ashton has signed for Sale

The Lost Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Reports that Chris Ashton has signed for Sale

would be as close to home club for him for top level rugby considering from wigan.

pickarooney

Is this him telling Eddie Jones to pick him for England?